[FNZ] Role Madness Jojo's Bizzare Adventure Mafia
- Thread starter Fujishiro
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- Tags persona > jojo persona did stands better
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@Ali v2 If Flower has claimed Vig (I haven't seen the post byt that's what her last post or so suggests) then I need to explain why that's unlikely to come from scum. So the vig is a hard role to fake claim because you need to be able to demonstrate that you have a kill in addition to the expected kills. As the game transpires, this becomes harder to fake. Having fake claimed vig more than once myself, I will not say it's impossible. But it requires the set up to favour it, which in turn requires an assumption on our part.
Now if I consider how Flower approached the game, I ask myself "does this read as someone who has no real concern about being suspected, as she would have with such a role"? And to start at my conclusion, yes I think it does. To establish this, we must consider that Flower as a player is someone who cannot handle being suspected with composure. However that manifests, she is invariably going to claim early and often despite knowing it is strategically suboptimal because as town she cannot bear being suspected of being scum and feels the need to do whatever she can to avoid that - even before said suspicion comes into play.
I noted earlier that Flower seemed "weird, but not scummy". This would then line up with that. Because if she has a role that she believes can clear her easily, she will of course have a measure of confidence, almost like a burden is removed from her through her role.
This is important because an argument I often see from this sort of thing against Flower is "but if she really was the Vig, she would know not to claim it so easily, thus she must be lying". I must stress that this is a poor premise when it concerns Flower. Yes, she does know the issues with claiming it. But that ultimately has always come second, behind her priority of "not being suspected". I can give you many games over the last half a decade or so to prove this if you need me to (though I hope you don't, because that feels like a daunting research task). So the idea that she would play it close to her chest, does not line up with her as a player.
It is for this reason that you ought to rethink your suspicion. I would not tell you to drop it entirely. I believe healthy scepticism is a good thing. But this is ultimately a compromise, and there is a difference between focusing on a player, and keeping some reasonable doubt on them. Ultimately, Flower should prove her roles existence, at least on the killing side. As we get a better game picture, that will inform whether it's an extra scum kill or a town driven one. This is to say, there's no logical reason for it to take priority today or tomorrow.
Now if I consider how Flower approached the game, I ask myself "does this read as someone who has no real concern about being suspected, as she would have with such a role"? And to start at my conclusion, yes I think it does. To establish this, we must consider that Flower as a player is someone who cannot handle being suspected with composure. However that manifests, she is invariably going to claim early and often despite knowing it is strategically suboptimal because as town she cannot bear being suspected of being scum and feels the need to do whatever she can to avoid that - even before said suspicion comes into play.
I noted earlier that Flower seemed "weird, but not scummy". This would then line up with that. Because if she has a role that she believes can clear her easily, she will of course have a measure of confidence, almost like a burden is removed from her through her role.
This is important because an argument I often see from this sort of thing against Flower is "but if she really was the Vig, she would know not to claim it so easily, thus she must be lying". I must stress that this is a poor premise when it concerns Flower. Yes, she does know the issues with claiming it. But that ultimately has always come second, behind her priority of "not being suspected". I can give you many games over the last half a decade or so to prove this if you need me to (though I hope you don't, because that feels like a daunting research task). So the idea that she would play it close to her chest, does not line up with her as a player.
It is for this reason that you ought to rethink your suspicion. I would not tell you to drop it entirely. I believe healthy scepticism is a good thing. But this is ultimately a compromise, and there is a difference between focusing on a player, and keeping some reasonable doubt on them. Ultimately, Flower should prove her roles existence, at least on the killing side. As we get a better game picture, that will inform whether it's an extra scum kill or a town driven one. This is to say, there's no logical reason for it to take priority today or tomorrow.
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