General & Others Kaido's 5 shadows above Luffy completely lost sense

[Herrera95]

After chapter 1010 we learned that coating attacks with conqueror is what a handful of strongest can do. So Luffy at chapter 1000 wasn't using the ability that those shadows probably used against Kaido. That makes that statement completely bullshit back then and would make sense only after 1010.

This is just another proof of how much Oda is lost in his own work.

 

[Monster Luffy]

No. At that point it is about how strong Luffy can become. Like I said it is you that lost mind way before chapter 1010. Just try to read and understand instead of just skimming through images.

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

Yeah, Luffy was using the same type of Haki that Raizo and Kiku were lol.

Kaido may as well have compared Shanks to Okiku.

 

[Jew D. Boy]

Wait...this doesn’t make any sense. Luffy was attacking Kaido without his CoC, Kaido mused that his ceiling could surpass the great pirates we saw, and then Luffy did that...how does this not track?? Whether it’s a wise narrative choice or happened too quickly is up for debate, but the sheer sequence of these events isn’t the problem.

 

[Herrera95]

Wait...this doesn’t make any sense. Luffy was attacking Kaido without his CoC, Kaido mused that his ceiling could surpass the great pirates we saw, and then Luffy did that...how does this not track?? Whether it’s a wise narrative choice or happened too quickly is up for debate, but the sheer sequence of these events isn’t the problem.

Kaido stated that only a few are capable of fighting with him. But Luffy wasn't one of them at that time. He just became one now.

Post automatically merged: Apr 28, 2021

Yeah, Luffy was using the same type of Haki that Raizo and Kiku were lol.

Kaido may as well have compared Shanks to Okiku.

I don't think like that but it is a mess of who is hurting Kaido with what technique. And I laughed that Shanks and Kiku comparision haha

 

[Jew D. Boy]

Kaido stated that only a few are capable of fighting with him. But Luffy wasn't one of them at that time. He just became one now.

Post automatically merged: Apr 28, 2021

I don't think like that but it is a mess of who is hurting Kaido with what technique. And I laughed that Shanks and Kiku comparision haha

So Kaido wonders if Luffy can surpass these people, all of whom CAN use CoC and a few who have shown the ability to use its advanced form, which Luffy then does in short order, meaning he can in fact surpass those guys like the story demands. What am I missing here, man??

 

[Finalbeta]

The ceiling is not even that fundamental to our knowledge. So many users fixiated over it being related to power levels. Did you forget that Prime Rayleigh didn't feature in that list. It would implicate Oden > Prime Ray which stands as highly questionable.

 

[Herrera95]

The ceiling is not even that fundamental to our knowledge. So many users fixiated over it being related to power levels. Did you forget that Prime Rayleigh didn't feature in that list. It would implicate Oden > Prime Ray which stands as highly questionable.

If Kaido faced Roger that means neither Rayleigh and Gaban had the oportunity to face him. This is not Universe Power Level. There is no marine there either. No Im Sama.
I'm not taking as power level, instant top 5. But as people who could 1v1 Kaido. And Luffy is not one of them at that chapter.

Post automatically merged: Apr 28, 2021

So Kaido wonders if Luffy can surpass these people, all of whom CAN use CoC and a few who have shown the ability to use its advanced form, which Luffy then does in short order, meaning he can in fact surpass those guys like the story demands. What am I missing here, man??

You are missing the previous panel where Kaido says what I wrote in my comment.
Also, Luffy didn't surpassed any of them. He maybe matched some.
Still, Oda itself stated that Shanks CoC was at least twice as Luffy at Fishmen Island. Only because didn't had more then 100k fishmen for we to be sure. Is Luffy CoC already Shanks level? If so what is Kaido CoC level for Luffy matching him like that? What was those legends CoC levels? Because from now on everything is CoC only. Forget the others haki.

 

[Finalbeta]

If Kaido faced Roger that means neither Rayleigh and Gaban had the oportunity to face him. This is not Universe Power Level.

This is exactly my point, yes.

As a factual matter, Kaido probably spoke for what he acknowledged so that ceiling is not a good power levels scaling. Some users utilize it to postulate Oden's superiority vs. Prime Rayleigh but that is a crystal clear reach.

 

[NotTommy]

Before, Luffy showed that he could fight Kaido so we got that line, "there are only a handful of people that can hurt me" while he also showed his potential, ''how high will your ceiling go?"

I interpreted it as him simply acknowledging that Luffy can damage him but the 5 people he highlighted were those that can fight on par with him or that he acknowledges the strength of and he was wondering if Luffy will rise up to their level which he did when he busted out Conqueror haki and used it in his combat. Before, Luffy wasn't at their level and Kaido simply wondered if he could be at some point, "Are you saying you're as great as they are?" whereas at this point he is, after being recognised as part of that "handful of the strongest," that can utilize Conqueror's haki the way he does.

 

[lee33]

After chapter 1010 we learned that coating attacks with conqueror is what a handful of strongest can do. So Luffy at chapter 1000 wasn't using the ability that those shadows probably used against Kaido. That makes that statement completely bullshit back then and would make sense only after 1010.

This is just another proof of how much Oda is lost in his own work.

I don’t understand? What shadows? Provide context.

 

[Sasaki Kojirō]

Yeah, Luffy was using the same type of Haki that Raizo and Kiku were lol.

Kaido may as well have compared Shanks to Okiku.

The worn and tortured ACE MF haki, who withstood the great AKAINU magma attack unscathed after a collision.
Why don't you try to debate this with me? Incosistence in lethality. Laughs.

 

[Jew D. Boy]

If Kaido faced Roger that means neither Rayleigh and Gaban had the oportunity to face him. This is not Universe Power Level. There is no marine there either. No Im Sama.
I'm not taking as power level, instant top 5. But as people who could 1v1 Kaido. And Luffy is not one of them at that chapter.

Post automatically merged: Apr 28, 2021

You are missing the previous panel where Kaido says what I wrote in my comment.
Also, Luffy didn't surpassed any of them. He maybe matched some.
Still, Oda itself stated that Shanks CoC was at least twice as Luffy at Fishmen Island. Only because didn't had more then 100k fishmen for we to be sure. Is Luffy CoC already Shanks level? If so what is Kaido CoC level for Luffy matching him like that? What was those legends CoC levels? Because from now on everything is CoC only. Forget the others haki.

What’s the point of this entire arc, in your mind? Of course Luffy hasn’t surpassed them in every single way, but by the time this fight with Kaido is over, he’ll be a hell of a lot closer. You’re taking issue with the semantics of the Yonko’s statement for no reason, Luffy becoming as proficient as Shanks has to start sometime and 1011+ chapters in isn’t exactly putting the cart before the horse.

 

[uyuu]

After chapter 1010 we learned that coating attacks with conqueror is what a handful of strongest can do. So Luffy at chapter 1000 wasn't using the ability that those shadows probably used against Kaido. That makes that statement completely bullshit back then and would make sense only after 1010.

This is just another proof of how much Oda is lost in his own work.

It means Red Roc only used barrier CoA but it damaged Kaidou with a punch, something very few achieved before, and Luffy built different

You mean Luffy took down Kaidou and damaged him so much it reminded Kaidou of the 5 shadows, without even using CoC tech the 5 shadows mastered?

Sovereign of Ocean Luffy

 

[lee33]

What’s the point of this entire arc, in your mind? Of course Luffy hasn’t surpassed them in every single way, but by the time this fight with Kaido is over, he’ll be a hell of a lot closer. You’re taking issue with the semantics of the Yonko’s statement for no reason, Luffy becoming as proficient as Shanks has to start sometime and 1011+ chapters in isn’t exactly putting the cart before the horse.

You’re right it should started sometime and “sometime” should have been post time skip. Instead Oda continually created filler content where his opponent was hody Jones. So now Oda has no choice but to create this fairy tail type power scaling.

 

[stairs-kun]

Zoro stomps Luffy

 

[Herrera95]

It means Red Roc only used barrier CoA but it damaged Kaidou with a punch, something very few achieved before, and Luffy built different

You mean Luffy took down Kaidou and damaged him so much it reminded Kaidou of the 5 shadows, without even using CoC tech the 5 shadows mastered?

Sovereign of Ocean Luffy

So adv Cow should be enough for this arc. Luffy trained for this. He didn't trained for coating conqueror.
The whole problem is Kaido comparing Luffy attack power to those who used coat CoC and chapters layers Luffy himself stated that was a superficial hit.

 

[uyuu]

So adv Cow should be enough for this arc. Luffy trained for this. He didn't trained for coating conqueror.
The whole problem is Kaido comparing Luffy attack power to those who used coat CoC and chapters layers Luffy himself stated that was a superficial hit.

Imo AdvCoC is not enough since the gap is too big. Luffy didnt train to use CoC specifically, he learn to flow CoA into his fists whatever, and after taking Kaidou's hits he realized oh apparently i can use that kinda principle on CoC as well. His specialty, creativity in fusing things together, and affinity towards CoC work together to form this result. Just like he didnt know Soru at first glance but adapting to learn it in the next fight.

So what Luffy considered superficial is already enough to remind Kaidou of those 5. Its a sign that Luffy has real potential to match-surpass those five even without learning AdvCoC yet.

 

[Herrera95]

So what Luffy considered superficial is already enough to remind Kaidou of those 5. Its a sign that Luffy has real potential to match-surpass those five even without learning AdvCoC yet.

No is not. Is only a sign of pure bullshit. Kaido was screaming everytime anything touched him. He screamed to Law threwing rocks and people thought it was haki rocks hahaha.
Oda messed up. We don't know what hurts and what doesn't hurts Kaido anymore.

 

[uyuu]

No is not. Is only a sign of pure bullshit. Kaido was screaming everytime anything touched him. He screamed to Law threwing rocks and people thought it was haki rocks hahaha.
Oda messed up. We don't know what hurts and what doesn't hurts Kaido anymore.

He screamed against Law's rocks, about that yea it was BS quite a bit. But Oda has to give Law some feat to be proud of. But about Luffy, Oda was being consistent.

"The punch damaged me...?" Was followed by Kidd's statement "how does physical blows work on Kaidou?" Followed by 5 shadows ceiling/potential. So Kaidou has singled out Luffy from the others from the get go. Even before Luffy figured out AdvCoC, but apparently his CoA is of enough quality to make Kaidou realize this.