Kingdom 780 - Offense and Defense in the Central Army

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
#4
So when up against the Moubu army SBS simply sends out Ji Aga..... @Elder Lee Hung

I knew Seika will be hype but not to this extent or Sou'Ou is just that stupid.
:saden:
You know what’s funny to me is that the same people who are going to object to Jiaga = Moubu are the same people who had no issue with Zenou > Moubu lol

“My favorites can be stronger than Moubu but no one else!”
 

RayanOO

Lazy is the way
#5
You know what’s funny to me is that the same people who are going to object to Jiaga = Moubu are the same people who had no issue with Zenou > Moubu lol

“My favorites can be stronger than Moubu but no one else!”
No one is his right mind will say that Jiaga or Zenou = or > Moubu

and maybe I’m blind but I saw no one saying this crazy thing seriously
 

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
#6
No one is his right mind will say that Jiaga or Zenou = or > Moubu
So are you arguing Sou Ou is not a credible source then?

I guess Sou Ou must not know Moubu killed Kanmei lol. All of China knows this happened but I guess Sou Ou was just living under a rock this entire time

Or maybe Sou Ou just mysteriously isn’t drinking the magic protagonist water you think that only Qin and Zhao have access to
:kawak:
 
#7
So are you arguing Sou Ou is not a credible source then?

I guess Sou Ou must not know Moubu killed Kanmei lol. All of China knows this happened but I guess Sou Ou was just living under a rock this entire time

Or maybe Sou Ou just mysteriously isn’t drinking the magic protagonist water you think that only Qin and Zhao have access to
:kawak:
Isn't he just talking about martial prowess though?
Moubu obviously has more strength and weight.
Even then, he wasn't there to witness Moubu's fight, it's probably just an estimation of how strong Jiaga is.
 
#8
We've had these statements several times in the series tbh. Ji Aga is not = Moubu lol.

Moubu walks him down with ease once he gets going.

Zenou having the brute strength off if not superior to even Moubu isn't a crazy take.
Look at this MF.
Riboku also compared the Zenou clans strength to Moubu’s army

Best case scenario Ji Aga has physical strength equal to Moubu but gets utterly throttled due to the weight difference. They simply aren't in the same league as generals and I'm not known to be a Moubu fanboy (Nr.5 of Chu slapped him around).

Moubu is not that big of a warrior, looking at his size.
 

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
#9
Isn't he just talking about martial prowess though?
Moubu obviously has more strength and weight.
Even then, he wasn't there to witness Moubu's fight, it's probably just an estimation of how strong Jiaga is.
Well let’s just go with ‘martial prowess’ being the correct translation.

In that case, Jiaga having similar martial prowess to Moubu is no different from characters saying Shouheikun has the same martial prowess as Moubu.

Obviously Moubu >>> Shouheikun in brute strength, but Shouheikun’s overall martial prowess puts him on a similar level to Moubu anyway. Jiaga’s martial prowess being comparable to Moubu is probably the same thing, Moubu probably has greater brute strength but Jiaga is overall on a similar level to him as a fighter.

People making a fuss about this statement never understood Moubu to begin with lol.

We've had these statements several times in the series tbh. Ji Aga is not = Moubu lol.
Name one other time any character has been compared to Moubu martially who isn’t Shouheikun.

EDIT: and don’t say Shoumou because Moubu’s full strength wasn’t known to all of China back then like it is now.
 
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#10
EDIT: and don’t say Shoumou because Moubu’s full strength wasn’t known to all of China back then like it is now.
Lord Shoumou
:kayneshrug:

And being compared to Moubu specifically isn't the main point. It's about High Tiers being hyped by comparisons with Top Tiers.

Kaishibou is not as strong as Renpa and neither is Gaimou. In fact, Shin is far more credible here because he himself took the swings of Renpa, Gaimou and Gyou'Un.

Sou'Ou saw a strong dude and started talking out of his ass. And I'm here as one of the main Ji Aga fanboys but saying he = Moubu would mean SBS washes the likes of Moubu and Kanmei which is nonsense
 

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
#11
Kaishibou is not as strong as Renpa
He isn’t? Lol

That statement came directly from Genpou, that was literally one of the most credible strength quotes probably in the history of manga. Genpou is not only a genius but is also intimately familiar with both Kaishibou and Renpa.

So what basis do you have for saying Renpa is stronger than Kaishibou? Should we also doubt that Genpou is as smart as Renpa? Or did you arbitrarily decide that Renpa can have a subordinate as smart as himself but not one as strong as himself?

Oh really? Damn what manga are you reading where Renpa was said to be stronger than Gaimou? Lol

In fact, Shin is far more credible here because he himself took the swings of Renpa, Gaimou and Gyou'Un
And Shin outright said that all of their weights were equal. What series are you reading where Shin said something different?

And I'm here as one of the main Ji Aga fanboys but saying he = Moubu would mean SBS washes the likes of Moubu and Kanmei
:beanmean:
 
#13
I'm honestly curious as to what the correct translation would be for that line. Raw power VS Martial Prowess can mean wildly different things.

Also the fuck? Shin literally said Gyou'Un's blow = Gaimou lol.
 
#14
I'm honestly curious as to what the correct translation would be for that line. Raw power VS Martial Prowess can mean wildly different things.
Well Sensescan translation is always quite accurate while Koreans also said its the same from there raws. Lol


Also the fuck? Shin literally said Gyou'Un's blow = Gaimou lol.
Renpa has one thing which others (Gyou'un and Gaimou) wouldn't have and that is weigh of GG which made a difference for Ouki against Houken, even though in databook Houken was stronger.
 

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
#15
Renpa has one thing which others (Gyou'un and Gaimou) wouldn't have and that is weigh of GG which made a difference for Ouki against Houken, even though in databook Houken was stronger.
Except the manga explicitly confirmed that both Gyou’Un and Gaimou do have weight and explicitly compared both of their weights to Renpa lol

Sometimes I think you don’t read this series bro lmfao
 
#17
You can't expect me to believe that Sou'Ou seriously believe that Ji Aga is a Moubu/Kanmei caliber fighter and also thinks his girlfriend can slay him at the same time
He probably thinks they have the same raw power which is impressive but not the same thing
MouGoat had more strength than Renpa and we saw what happened there
 
#18
He isn’t? Lol

That statement came directly from Genpou, that was literally one of the most credible strength quotes probably in the history of manga. Genpou is not only a genius but is also intimately familiar with both Kaishibou and Renpa.

So what basis do you have for saying Renpa is stronger than Kaishibou? Should we also doubt that Genpou is as smart as Renpa? Or did you arbitrarily decide that Renpa can have a subordinate as smart as himself but not one as strong as himself?
He isn't. When I say that I talk about a Hypothetical scenario in which both fighters fight 1v1 till death. In such a scenario I can promise you that Kaishibou nor Gaimou and potentially even Gyou'Un be truly equal to a Great General of Renpa’s caliber like Ouki was.

The best way to explain this is with actual panels.
Lee, I think there is a key thing you're still underrating severely.
Just how much superior a great general of the heavens portrayal and weight is in comparison to high tier Generals that are infamous but not on that legend tier.
Ouki's weight made such a change to the duel that all the stats he was inferior in to Houken didn't matter AT ALL. He was mercilessly beating down on him and Houken was completely helpless.

I know the major difference between Houken and Gaimou, Kaishibou etc. They Do have weight while he does not but their weight is and will never be on the same tier as that of a general on Ouki's league. One statement that compares the strength of one glaive swing doesn't mean it was just confirmed that these characters are completely equal in a 1v1.

Weight Is a concept that majority of the warriors in verse even are oblivious about. They can't understand where a GG of the heavens is drawing his strength from, but what they do understand and are able to describe is brute strength, speed, tactics, technique and that's what they base their comparisons on because that's what they can see.

I already know that you're going to accuse me of saying that Genpou, Sou'Ou, Shin etc not understanding what weight is but let me just make clear that that's not what I'm saying.
Shin was starting to understand the concept of weight here and he was comparing it to the only ever time he experienced that same feeling which was against Renpa, this in my opinion doesn't mean that Renpa = Gaimou. What else could Shin compare this moment to if not to the only ever other instance where has felt "weight" before ?

Long story short. Put a general of Kaishibou’s or Gaimou's caliber in a 1v1 with a GG of the heavens like Renpa or Ouki I can Guarantee you that the fight will look like Ouki vs Houken. The people will not understand why the GG of the heavens is beating down on the inferior general in such dominant fashion even though all logic (that they are equal in all stats) is telling them it should be a close fight.


Oh really? Damn what manga are you reading where Renpa was said to be stronger than Gaimou? Lol
Portrayal. Look I don't hate Gaimou. I've recently read the Wei battles again and realised that I've been underrating them but you guys still overrate them imo.

Look at this. This is not how a general treats an equal. Ouki was quite literally laughing in that man's face, saying he isn't worth the effort and if one day he is then he is still confident that's he's killing his ass, lol. I mean just how clear do you want it to be Lee ?
There's nothing subtle about this.
You can't expect me to believe that Sou'Ou seriously believe that Ji Aga is a Moubu/Kanmei caliber fighter and also thinks his girlfriend can slay him at the same time
He probably thinks they have the same raw power which is impressive but not the same thing
MouGoat had more strength than Renpa and we saw what happened there
Exactly. I think some people still don't see the actual difference between the Weight that most of these strong generals possess and the Weight of a Great General of the heavens.
Shin is a general that at this point possesses at least equal if not superior weight like most of those high tier Generals but he is still not on that Ouki tier.
 

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
#20
Lee, I think there is a key thing you're still underrating severely.
Just how much superior a great general of the heavens portrayal and weight is in comparison to high tier Generals that are infamous but not on that legend tier.
No, I’m saying Renpa’s weight was never portrayed any differently than Gaimou’s or Gyou’Un’s because this is explicitly what the only character who ever faced all three of them in combat has told us lmfao. You tried to go on a huge diatribe about Ouki vs Houken when my argument had nothing to do with Houken who was weightless.

Yes, Ouki would have killed the WEIGHTLESS Houken.

So from that, you somehow arrived at “yes Shin stated Gaimou and Gyou’Un had identical weight to Renpa but Renpa would give them the weightless treatment anyway”

And let’s also be clear, this manga has never portrayed the weight of a Great General any differently from the way it portrayed the weight of Gyou’Un and Garyuu and Gaimou (who is an actual Great General, I don’t think you realize this lol), that is something you made up lol.

hin was starting to understand the concept of weight here and he was comparing it to the only ever time he experienced that same feeling which was against Renpa, this in my opinion doesn't mean that Renpa = Gaimou.
These are the only three words you needed to type lol.

Look at this. This is not how a general treats an equal. Ouki was quite literally laughing in that man's face, saying he isn't worth the effort and if one day he is then he is still confident that's he's killing his ass, lol. I mean just how clear do you want it to be Lee ?
Well seeing as how Ouki never crossed blades with Gaimou, he would have no way of knowing that Gaimou’s weight was equal to Renpa’s like Shin did. Ouki had a low opinion on Gaimou for Gaimou’s philosophy on war, not because he had crossed blades with him and found his weight lacking lol.

If Ouki had actually fought Gaimou and treated him like this I might agree with you, but Ouki never did, and the one guy who fought both Renpa and Gaimou and lived to tell about it said they had equal weight. Lol
 
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