Kingdom - Chapter 637: Gyou's Life
- Thread starter Arara
- Start date
- Status
Man oh man, I am loving the return of the fast paced campaign strategy chapters. 
When not even the boats on the Yellow River are the final solution. Damn, the upcoming reveal is going to be glorious. I can feel it.
I am pretty sure that this is the first time we have ever seen a naval battle, short as it was, in Kingdom. Absolutely gorgeous art.
I thi.... Wait a minute. 
Is it just me or does Seichou kinda look like.....
The Zhao King strikes poor Riboku once again. He really should have taken Ousen’s offer of employment.
Those Royal Seal Cavalry were pretty bad arse. They handed Kaine (who just won the Worst Bodyguard of the Year Award) yet another fat :holdthisl: by taking Riboku from right in front of her while holding her at metal knitting needle point.
Great chapter, I can hardly wait for next week’s bombshell reveal. :cheers:
Edit: MangaSee images do not permanently stay on posts within this forum, so I am replacing any that are in my posts.
When not even the boats on the Yellow River are the final solution. Damn, the upcoming reveal is going to be glorious. I can feel it.
I am pretty sure that this is the first time we have ever seen a naval battle, short as it was, in Kingdom. Absolutely gorgeous art.
Is it just me or does Seichou kinda look like.....
The Zhao King strikes poor Riboku once again. He really should have taken Ousen’s offer of employment.
Those Royal Seal Cavalry were pretty bad arse. They handed Kaine (who just won the Worst Bodyguard of the Year Award) yet another fat :holdthisl: by taking Riboku from right in front of her while holding her at metal knitting needle point.
Great chapter, I can hardly wait for next week’s bombshell reveal. :cheers:
Edit: MangaSee images do not permanently stay on posts within this forum, so I am replacing any that are in my posts.
Last edited:
Never deserve? That is a lofty claim.:kizabat:
Is Shin incapable of improving? Can he not learn strategies in the future from someone like Ten? Can he not hone his instincts? Can he not learn from experience?
I am uncertain as to what basis you are making this claim. Comparing current Shin to Ousen is unfair since;
I) Shin is not even a General yet.
II) Ousen has decades of experience over Shin.
III) Shin has not yet had the chance to lead an army, let alone an entire campaign.
Shin has always achieved his rank due to his achievements and feats, he will always deserve his title.
In Kingdom, what any General is at their core, regardless of whether they are a Fierce General, a Strategical General or even an Instinctual General, is that they are all leaders.
They lead through different methods. Some Generals like Kanki or Gekishin, lead through fear and promises of riches and fame through victory, while Generals like Yotanwa and Duke Hyou lead through inspiration and loyalty.
Criticise Shin for his lack of strategical talent all you want but Shin has always been an effective and inspirational leader to his men.
Kanmei lead his army through his own martial might and personal fame. He never showed any strategical or tactical talent and had a pure strategist along with two strategical generals as direct subordinates to lead his forces.
Moubou has always been a might over strategy kind of guy. Ouki did give Moubu credit for his understanding of warfare but that had more to do with his ability to lead his army rather than any tactical or strategical ability.
Gaimou is literally all brawn, even more so than the two previous individuals and relies on his subordinate Soujou for any and all strategies.
Houken is only a Great Heaven of Zhao solely because of his martial might.
Even Duke Hyou arguably relies on martial might above all else. Yes he is an instinctual general but he has only ever been able to capitalise on his intuition due to his martial prowess. His tactics are utterly mediocre and even other instinctual generals such as Keisha and Gyou’un have shown a far superior grasp of tactics.
Mougou may have been an subpar strategist but he was an effective leader that was self aware of his own flaws.
He knew his own weaknesses, that was why he recruited exceptional subordinates such as Kanki and Ousen. Not only was he able to recruit them but he kept them in his army for years despite each one’s notorious lack of loyalty. Kanki especially seemed to actually respect Mougou, going even so far as to offer up a tribute to his passing away.
Mougou was also capable of inspiring his troops much in the same way as other Great Generals. He certainly inspired far more genuine loyalty then Great Generals like Seikai and Gekishin.
His title was never completely hollow. He still possessed highly positive traits for a Great General.
As for Moubu, he will undoubtedly be tested one day. We will just have to wait. :cheers:
Edit: MangaSee images do not permanently stay on posts within this forum, so I am replacing any that are in my posts.
Is Shin incapable of improving? Can he not learn strategies in the future from someone like Ten? Can he not hone his instincts? Can he not learn from experience?
I am uncertain as to what basis you are making this claim. Comparing current Shin to Ousen is unfair since;
I) Shin is not even a General yet.
II) Ousen has decades of experience over Shin.
III) Shin has not yet had the chance to lead an army, let alone an entire campaign.
Shin has always achieved his rank due to his achievements and feats, he will always deserve his title.
In Kingdom, what any General is at their core, regardless of whether they are a Fierce General, a Strategical General or even an Instinctual General, is that they are all leaders.
They lead through different methods. Some Generals like Kanki or Gekishin, lead through fear and promises of riches and fame through victory, while Generals like Yotanwa and Duke Hyou lead through inspiration and loyalty.
Criticise Shin for his lack of strategical talent all you want but Shin has always been an effective and inspirational leader to his men.
Kanmei lead his army through his own martial might and personal fame. He never showed any strategical or tactical talent and had a pure strategist along with two strategical generals as direct subordinates to lead his forces.
Moubou has always been a might over strategy kind of guy. Ouki did give Moubu credit for his understanding of warfare but that had more to do with his ability to lead his army rather than any tactical or strategical ability.
Gaimou is literally all brawn, even more so than the two previous individuals and relies on his subordinate Soujou for any and all strategies.
Houken is only a Great Heaven of Zhao solely because of his martial might.
Even Duke Hyou arguably relies on martial might above all else. Yes he is an instinctual general but he has only ever been able to capitalise on his intuition due to his martial prowess. His tactics are utterly mediocre and even other instinctual generals such as Keisha and Gyou’un have shown a far superior grasp of tactics.
Mougou may have been an subpar strategist but he was an effective leader that was self aware of his own flaws.
He knew his own weaknesses, that was why he recruited exceptional subordinates such as Kanki and Ousen. Not only was he able to recruit them but he kept them in his army for years despite each one’s notorious lack of loyalty. Kanki especially seemed to actually respect Mougou, going even so far as to offer up a tribute to his passing away.
As for Moubu, he will undoubtedly be tested one day. We will just have to wait. :cheers:
Edit: MangaSee images do not permanently stay on posts within this forum, so I am replacing any that are in my posts.
Last edited:
Never deserve? That is a lofty claim.:kizabat:
Is Shin incapable of improving? Can he not learn strategies in the future from someone like Ten? Can he not hone his instincts? Can he not learn from experience?
I am uncertain as to what basis you are making this claim. Comparing current Shin to Ousen is unfair since;
I) Shin is not even a General yet.
II) Ousen has decades of experience over Shin.
III) Shin has not yet had the chance to lead an army, let alone an entire campaign.
Shin has always achieved his rank due to his achievements and feats, he will always deserve his title.
In Kingdom, what any General is at their core, regardless of whether they are a Fierce General, a Strategical General or even an Instinctual General, is that they are all leaders.
They lead through different methods. Some Generals like Kanki or Gekishin, lead through fear and promises of riches and fame through victory, while Generals like Yotanwa and Duke Hyou lead through inspiration and loyalty.
Criticise Shin for his lack of strategical talent all you want but Shin has always been an effective and inspirational leader to his men.
Kanmei lead his army through his own martial might and personal fame. He never showed any strategical or tactical talent and had a pure strategist and two strategical generals as direct subordinates to lead his forces.
Moubou has always been a might over strategy kind of guy. Ouki did give Moubu credit for his understanding of warfare but that had more to do with his ability to lead his army rather than any tactical or strategical ability.
Gaimou is literally all brawn, even more so than the two previous individuals and relies on his subordinate Soujou for any and all strategies.
Houken is only a Great Heaven of Zhao solely becahis martial might.
Even Duke Hyou arguably relies on martial might above all else. Yes he is an instinctual general but he has only ever been able to capitalise on his intuition due to his martial prowess. His tactics are utterly mediocre and even other instinctual generals such as Keisha and Gyou’un have shown a far superior grasp of tactics.
Mougou may have been an subpar strategist but he was an effective leader that was self aware of his own flaws.
He knew his own weaknesses, that was why he recruited exceptional subordinates such as Kanki and Ousen. Not only was he able to recruit them but he kept them in his army for years despite each one’s notorious lack of loyalty. Kanki especially seemed to actually respect Mougou, going even so far as to offer up a tribute to his passing away.
Mougou was also capable of inspiring his troops much in the same way as other Great Generals.
His title was never completely hollow. He still possessed highly positive traits for a Great General.
As for Moubu, he will undoubtedly be tested one day. We will just have to wait. :cheers:
Is Shin incapable of improving? Can he not learn strategies in the future from someone like Ten? Can he not hone his instincts? Can he not learn from experience?
I am uncertain as to what basis you are making this claim. Comparing current Shin to Ousen is unfair since;
I) Shin is not even a General yet.
II) Ousen has decades of experience over Shin.
III) Shin has not yet had the chance to lead an army, let alone an entire campaign.
Shin has always achieved his rank due to his achievements and feats, he will always deserve his title.
In Kingdom, what any General is at their core, regardless of whether they are a Fierce General, a Strategical General or even an Instinctual General, is that they are all leaders.
They lead through different methods. Some Generals like Kanki or Gekishin, lead through fear and promises of riches and fame through victory, while Generals like Yotanwa and Duke Hyou lead through inspiration and loyalty.
Criticise Shin for his lack of strategical talent all you want but Shin has always been an effective and inspirational leader to his men.
Kanmei lead his army through his own martial might and personal fame. He never showed any strategical or tactical talent and had a pure strategist and two strategical generals as direct subordinates to lead his forces.
Moubou has always been a might over strategy kind of guy. Ouki did give Moubu credit for his understanding of warfare but that had more to do with his ability to lead his army rather than any tactical or strategical ability.
Gaimou is literally all brawn, even more so than the two previous individuals and relies on his subordinate Soujou for any and all strategies.
Houken is only a Great Heaven of Zhao solely becahis martial might.
Even Duke Hyou arguably relies on martial might above all else. Yes he is an instinctual general but he has only ever been able to capitalise on his intuition due to his martial prowess. His tactics are utterly mediocre and even other instinctual generals such as Keisha and Gyou’un have shown a far superior grasp of tactics.
Mougou may have been an subpar strategist but he was an effective leader that was self aware of his own flaws.
He knew his own weaknesses, that was why he recruited exceptional subordinates such as Kanki and Ousen. Not only was he able to recruit them but he kept them in his army for years despite each one’s notorious lack of loyalty. Kanki especially seemed to actually respect Mougou, going even so far as to offer up a tribute to his passing away.
As for Moubu, he will undoubtedly be tested one day. We will just have to wait. :cheers:
He showed improvement in instinct, admittedly, but if you see actual GGs who do not even have the title yet but present such godly foresight, nobody can tell me "Shin has room for improvement", nor that his supposed instinctual style could ever match this.
No matter how much instinct you have, if you have not prepared for something like this beforehand, you are fucked.
What basis? Every fucking behavior of Shin, the dude who can´t understand the simplest of strategies. What´s gonna change when leading an army? He suddenly gonna understand everything? Baseless.
Ousen is not a GG either btw, meaning he has not fought the grand battles yet, and he is putting everything in his shadow.
You are stating all this, nothing changes that someone without even basis for strategy would be lost against someone preparing beforehand, easy as that. Instinctual types have a merit to them in the battle itself if the strategies are implemented in the present, for everything else they are useless.
We saw Kanmei for a few chapters, the fact that he was strong does not exclude him not being stupid like Shin.
Moubou still had to rely on Shouheikun´s strategy, without it he would have been lost as well.
Gaimou is the only one i can agree on.
I think Shin will be the best Instinctual general of his era EoS... We know how many battles Duke Hyou won with his instincts!!
Plus Shin has a decent strategist in Karyo Ten and extremely talented Kyokai under him which can compensate his strategical flaws....
When one is at the epitome of instinct, he is capable of reacting and counteracting most of the traps...
Plus Shin has a decent strategist in Karyo Ten and extremely talented Kyokai under him which can compensate his strategical flaws....
When one is at the epitome of instinct, he is capable of reacting and counteracting most of the traps...
Forming overall grand strategies is just one aspect of being a Great General, not a requirement for the rank lol. Pretty arbitrary to nitpick Shin’s future worthiness to be a GG just based on his lack of ability to form grand strategy lol, that’s like saying Ousen isn’t worthy to be a Great General since he can’t slay Hou Ken in a duel. It’s ignoring what makes Ousen an incredible General in the first place.
Really hope we finally end this arc in the next three chapters, the constant countering has gotten boring at this, on the other side I'm very interested to see what will happen to Riboku, I don't think he's on the cutting block yet but I hope Hara makes the connection between Kaine & the conversation she had with Gyouun a while back.
When the gang comes back to Kanyou, hope we get a mini slice of life arc, time to build on relationships with one another, get some sweet character development.
When the gang comes back to Kanyou, hope we get a mini slice of life arc, time to build on relationships with one another, get some sweet character development.
Why is future Shin going to be shackled by his past self’s lack of tactical ability? Why can he not improve?
It should be pretty obvious that Hara is going to have Shin improve his tactical ability since his martial prowess is now undeniably comparable to the greatest dualists in the manga.
We are going to see Shin continually face challenges through his current lack of tactical ability and overcome them throughout the rest of the story.
Whether that happens through Shin deciding to ask Ten to teach him as a moment of character growth or through improving his intuition or through him learning from trial and error experience or even from simply observing how other generals perform (he hangs out with Great Generals often enough), he is going to improve one way or another.
He will eventually become comparable to either Gyou’un, a fierce instinctual general that utilises basic strategies or he will be comparable to Duke Hyou, a fierce pure instinctual general (the same Duke Hyou who nearly killed Riboku by the way. So much for that unbeatable “godly foresight”. Lol.).
Are you really suggesting that there is going to be no learning curve for Shin whatsoever between him transitioning from serving as the captain of a unit within an army to actually leading an army itself?
He is not going to improve simply through acquiring the rank of general and “understand everything” as you put it. That is not what I am saying at all. He is going to improve through experience, through leading campaigns, battles etc.
Read again. I did not say that Shin is not a Great General, I said that he is not a General at all.
The greatest learning curve is not the transition from General to Great General, it is from 5000 Man Commander to General.
Great Generals and Generals perform the exact same roles (e.g. leading armies, creating battle/campaign plans etc.), Great Generals merely perform their role more effectively.
5000 Man Commanders and Generals perform completely different roles, the greatest difference being that the latter leads whole armies while the former does not.
What? Ousen has not fought in grand battles? Then what were the Battles of Sanyou, Kankoku Pass and Shukai Plains? Minor disagreements?
Besides, time and again, various characters (including Ouki, Shoheikan and Koshou) throughout the manga have acknowledged Ousen as having talent equal to the greatest generals of all time. You know well that there is an in-story reason as to why he is not already a Great General.
So they are good in what they specialise in but not in what they do not? Whoever would have guessed?
Kanmei was around for most of an arc. Hara showed everything that he had to offer. This is the same Hara that was able to show off how great a strategist Gekishin was in just a mere three chapters. Kanmei showed no tactical prowess because guess what? He is a General that built up his reputation solely on his martial might.
So Moubu used Shoheikan’s strategy. How is that a point in favour of Moubu’s tactical ability and not Shoheikan’s? Besides, the reason Shoheikan even gave Moubu that strategy was so that Moubu could unleash his martial might to it’s fullest potential. Moubu’s entire claim to fame is through his martial might. His entire character theme has always been that of martial might over tactics.
It should be pretty obvious that Hara is going to have Shin improve his tactical ability since his martial prowess is now undeniably comparable to the greatest dualists in the manga.
We are going to see Shin continually face challenges through his current lack of tactical ability and overcome them throughout the rest of the story.
Whether that happens through Shin deciding to ask Ten to teach him as a moment of character growth or through improving his intuition or through him learning from trial and error experience or even from simply observing how other generals perform (he hangs out with Great Generals often enough), he is going to improve one way or another.
He will eventually become comparable to either Gyou’un, a fierce instinctual general that utilises basic strategies or he will be comparable to Duke Hyou, a fierce pure instinctual general (the same Duke Hyou who nearly killed Riboku by the way. So much for that unbeatable “godly foresight”. Lol.).
Are you really suggesting that there is going to be no learning curve for Shin whatsoever between him transitioning from serving as the captain of a unit within an army to actually leading an army itself?
He is not going to improve simply through acquiring the rank of general and “understand everything” as you put it. That is not what I am saying at all. He is going to improve through experience, through leading campaigns, battles etc.
Read again. I did not say that Shin is not a Great General, I said that he is not a General at all.
The greatest learning curve is not the transition from General to Great General, it is from 5000 Man Commander to General.
Great Generals and Generals perform the exact same roles (e.g. leading armies, creating battle/campaign plans etc.), Great Generals merely perform their role more effectively.
5000 Man Commanders and Generals perform completely different roles, the greatest difference being that the latter leads whole armies while the former does not.
What? Ousen has not fought in grand battles? Then what were the Battles of Sanyou, Kankoku Pass and Shukai Plains? Minor disagreements?
Besides, time and again, various characters (including Ouki, Shoheikan and Koshou) throughout the manga have acknowledged Ousen as having talent equal to the greatest generals of all time. You know well that there is an in-story reason as to why he is not already a Great General.
So they are good in what they specialise in but not in what they do not? Whoever would have guessed?
Kanmei was around for most of an arc. Hara showed everything that he had to offer. This is the same Hara that was able to show off how great a strategist Gekishin was in just a mere three chapters. Kanmei showed no tactical prowess because guess what? He is a General that built up his reputation solely on his martial might.
So Moubu used Shoheikan’s strategy. How is that a point in favour of Moubu’s tactical ability and not Shoheikan’s? Besides, the reason Shoheikan even gave Moubu that strategy was so that Moubu could unleash his martial might to it’s fullest potential. Moubu’s entire claim to fame is through his martial might. His entire character theme has always been that of martial might over tactics.
Can't wait for the next chapter though
Interesting albeit slightly boring chapter. I fully concur with everyone else's thoughts on getting these snoozefests battles of wits over and done with, this needs more epic strategies in battle. I'm getting tired of waiting so long for the chapters to be translated for them to be so short and frankly, boring. The first several major story arcs had minimal time wasting and generally good pacing with strong core, character development. Not so much for the more recent.
I still enjoy reading it though.
I still enjoy reading it though.
Last edited:
- Status