Kingdom - Chapter 670: Fatal Mistake

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#21
Moubu, Tou, Ousen are worthy of being GG (although Ousen can't be trusted entirely). Yotanwo is also up there but the issue is that her portrayal was pretty bad during the Gyou arc.
Kanki shouldn't be GG imo. Not saying that he's bad but I just can't put him on their level just yet,especially when you consider that we don't even know what his weakness is according to Riboku.

Even if, would it make sense to promote someone to GG and immediately to becoming one of the 6 GG? That's a status even above GG. Not all GG's are one of the 6 or a member of the Three great Heavens.
Riboku knowing of Kanki's weakness doesn't invalidate Kanki's talent of being a GG. Riboku is considered to be a monster, it just means he can pose a threat/take out GG in warfare.
 
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#22
Heavily disagreed. Her portrayal during the Gyou Campaign was incredible. Even with every conceivable disadvantage against her against the Quanrong, she and her army still pulled out a huge win and captured a city they weren’t even supposed to capture lol.

Plus she will now presumably be able to take Quanrong troops with her into battle, in addition to her already absurdly powerful mountain armies.

My only issue with Yo Tan Wa becoming a GG is that it seems like a redundancy for her, she already has all the privileges that the rank would afford her. But we’ll see what happens lol.
She was outclassed by the Quanrong on numerous occasions. She was basically on the verge of death at one point if not for Bajio rescuing her like a damsel in distress.


I acknowledge the fact that Yotanwa had been able to make herself the leader of the Quanrong but I always despised that scene in chapter 574 where we see her leading them. It goes against the loyalty and integrity the Quanrong should have even if their leader Rozo died. It was basically just a talk no jutsu. Them taking the city was also handled poorly. Only a small unit was sent towards Ryouyou so I don't get how the Mountain tribe were being outclassed by the Quanrong in every scene except for this one.

I honestly think Hara kind of messed up this section of the story and decided to go with the easy way out.
 
#23
She was outclassed by the Quanrong on numerous occasions.
She wasn’t outclassed by them even once. Heki was outclassed by Shunsuiju initially which resulted in Yotanwa’s own army fighting the entire battle while starving. Don’t forget that her army was severely nerfed from the very beginning due to Heki making a huge mistake against Shunsuiju.

But even with her men starving, Yotanwa herself still orchestrated a battle plan which involved her armies slaying all three of Rozo’s commanders as well as Rozo himself, and then snatching the Quanrong’s own city out from under their nose. Hell Goba fought on par with Bajio for hours, and then Yotanwa turns around and slays Goba in what? 15 seconds?

Yotanwa is a strategic mastermind, a top tier warrior, and a King capable of commanding the respect of brutal mountain savages, all at once.

She was basically on the verge of death at one point if not for Bajio rescuing her like a damsel in distress.
She’s not a god lol. Refer to the above with Goba. Hara has shown us that Bajio would be lucky to last 60 seconds if Yotanwa were serious about killing him.

I always despised that scene in chapter 574 where we see her leading them. It goes against the loyalty and integrity the Quanrong should have even if their leader Rozo died.
What? Did we read the same arc?

It was explicitly shown that the Quanrong’s loyalty to Rozo came from the fact that Rozo would have your family killed if he felt like you didn’t fight hard enough. They were never loyal to Rozo, they only fought as hard as they did so that Rozo didn’t slaughter their families.

It’s easy to imagine a strength-based society flipping sides when Yotanwa defeats and kills their entire royal family in combat, especially when you only remained loyal to the old regime out of fear and the new regime promises something different.

I honestly think Hara kind of messed up this section of the story and decided to go with the easy way out.
I think you’re misremembering a few things. Like I said, the Quanrong never once outplayed Yotanwa. Even her grand retreat from them in the end was to lure them away from their city so Yotanwa’s tribes could capture it from them. Even while retreating, the Quanrong were dancing to Yotanwa’s tune the entire time.

Keep in mind, that the chadnificent Danto, while heavily wounded, traded blows with Rozo himself for an extended period. If Danto didn’t insist on wounding himself, then a fight between he and Rozo could’ve likely gone either way.

Then consider the fact that Danto recognizes himself as a clear inferior to Yotanwa lol.
 
#24
YTW was outsmarted by SSJ during the 9th at one point... She didn't expect that SSJ will cut her path when she moves out to take out Goba.
She’s not a god lol. Refer to the above with Goba. Hara has shown us that Bajio would be lucky to last 60 seconds if Yotanwa were serious about killing him.
Not really... Because Goba never faced Berserk Bajio and YTW herself calls Bajio the strongest warrior and thinks of Bajio as her strongest opponent so far. Atm, i'd still give YTW the edge over Bajio but he will surpass her in str.
All are scrubs compared to Shin or Ou hon tho.
 
#25
YTW was outsmarted by SSJ during the 9th at one point... She didn't expect that SSJ will cut her path when she moves out to take out Goba.
A maneuver which she immediately nullified by avoiding his trap, killing Goba anyway and escaping entirely.

All of which was part of her grand plan to have all the major commanders of the opposing army focus entirely on her and leave the Quanrong city behind.
Shinsuiji never outright outsmarted Yotanwa.
Not really... Because Goba never faced Berserk Bajio and YTW herself calls Bajio the strongest warrior and thinks of Bajio as her strongest opponent so far. Atm, i'd still give YTW the edge over Bajio but he will surpass her in str.
All are scrubs compared to Shin or Ou hon tho.
Goba was dead equal to Base Bajio, completely matching his speed and every one of Base Bajio's blows.

Yotanwa completely blitzed Goba with three strikes in as many seconds.

Even if his Berserk mode gave Bajio a 200% increase, Yotanwa would still demolish him in minutes. Lol.
 
#26
YTW was outsmarted by SSJ during the 9th at one point... She didn't expect that SSJ will cut her path when she moves out to take out Goba.
I don’t really consider this outsmarting someone, especially when she ultimately slayed Goba regardless, but anyway:

Shunsuiju seems to primarily be an intellectual General, I have no problems with him performing maneuvers that Yotanwa didn’t expect lol. This is like trying to downplay Riboku because he would most likely lose a 1v1 fight against Bananji, or Rinshoujou because Gyou’Un would kill him effortlessly 1v1. Riboku and Rinshoujou are/were one of the Three Great Heavens for much more than just their fighting ability, and Yotanwa is Qin 6 level for more than just her tactics. Renpa stated that he himself could not stop Rinko once Rinko had been set lose, that does not mean Renpa is an inferior General to Rinko lol. Being Great General level doesn’t mean you are going to outclass everyone not on Great General level in every respect, and there is no reason to believe Yotanwa is not on par with the Qin 6 when it has been explicitly stated that she is on that level.
 
#27
I don’t really consider this outsmarting someone, especially when she ultimately slayed Goba regardless, but anyway:

Shunsuiju seems to primarily be an intellectual General, I have no problems with him performing maneuvers that Yotanwa didn’t expect lol. This is like trying to downplay Riboku because he would most likely lose a 1v1 fight against Bananji, or Rinshoujou because Gyou’Un would kill him effortlessly 1v1. Riboku and Rinshoujou are/were one of the Three Great Heavens for much more than just their fighting ability, and Yotanwa is Qin 6 level for more than just her tactics. Renpa stated that he himself could not stop Rinko once Rinko had been set lose, that does not mean Renpa is an inferior General to Rinko lol. Being Great General level doesn’t mean you are going to outclass everyone not on Great General level in every respect, and there is no reason to believe Yotanwa is not on par with the Qin 6 when it has been explicitly stated that she is on that level.
A bit off-topic to your post but has anyone ever wondered why Shunsujiu didn't help out Riboku after Ryouyou was captured by Yotanwa's forces? He still had an army of around 100K. He could have liberated Gyou or went into the direction of the Shukai Plains.







 
#28
A bit off-topic to your post but has anyone ever wondered why Shunsujiu didn't help out Riboku after Ryouyou was captured by Yotanwa's forces? He still had an army of around 100K. He could have liberated Gyou or went into the direction of the Shukai Plains.







I think nobody in Zhao thought Gyou would actually fall. Gyou’s collapse was a shock to even Riboku lol. So looking at things from the angle of “Gyou cannot fall”, it makes sense that Shunsuiju would choose to reinforce Retsubi to block the Qin’s escape, rather than go to Shukai to help Riboku, or to go stop Kanki’s futile siege.

The Zhao’s overall strategy was to starve Qin out rather than kill them all directly, so I think Shunsuiju made the best choice he could in that instance.
 
#29
I think nobody in Zhao thought Gyou would actually fall. Gyou’s collapse was a shock to even Riboku lol. So looking at things from the angle of “Gyou cannot fall”, it makes sense that Shunsuiju would choose to reinforce Retsubi to block the Qin’s escape, rather than go to Shukai to help Riboku, or to go stop Kanki’s futile siege.

The Zhao’s overall strategy was to starve Qin out rather than kill them all directly, so I think Shunsuiju made the best choice he could in that instance.
Seems like a risky move, also why not just head for the Shukai plains? They would have defeated the Ousen army if they did. Regardless,
Tou arrived at Retsubi with an army of 40K. Akou also came with reinforcements but I doubt their numbers would exceed the 100K. Especially when you consider that Retsubi was already fortified with 50K soldiers before Ryouyou was captured. Shunsuji's army in combination with Kouchou's should have been twice as big as Tou's and Akou's combined.:few:

 
#30
A bit off-topic to your post but has anyone ever wondered why Shunsujiu didn't help out Riboku after Ryouyou was captured by Yotanwa's forces? He still had an army of around 100K. He could have liberated Gyou or went into the direction of the Shukai Plains.







Had Shinsuiji even attempted to go in either direction, his army would have been hit full force in the rear by a combined Quanrong/Mountain Tribe Army.
 
#31
Seems like a risky move, also why not just head for the Shukai plains? They would have defeated the Ousen army if they did.
And then there would’ve always been the possibility (probability actually) that the Ousen army would’ve been able to retreat back to Qin (alongside the Kanki and Yotanwa armies)

Recall how dangerous Riboku thinks Qin is because of Sei’s ideology. Zhao wasn’t just trying to win this battle, they were trying to eliminate a 200,000 man Qin Army completely. Hence why the Retsubi fail safe was being used:

1) to stall the Qin Army out of food and prevent them from reinforcing themselves

2) to prevent Qin from leaving Zhao easily.

Shunsuiju reinforcing Riboku would mean that Ousen could just turn tail, run away, and the Qin could retry a similar invasion in a year or two because the Zhao didn’t take the time to eliminate them then and there. And Zhao would face the exact same issues as they faced during the Gyou invasion.

Tou arrived at Retsubi with an army of 40K. Akou also came with reinforcements but I doubt their numbers would exceed the 100K. Especially when you consider that Retsubi was already fortified with 50K soldiers before Ryouyou was captured. Shunsuji's army in combination with Kouchou's should have been twice as big as Tou's and Akou's combined.
Kochou and Shunsuiju didn’t retreat because of the size of the Qin Army and the generals commanding them, they retreated because there was no longer strategic viability in defending Retsubi since the Qin had lost Gyou. The whole point of Retsubi was to lock the Qin within Zhao with no strongholds for them to retreat to, but they didn’t have that option anymore since the Qin had taken Gyou.

“Well why didn’t they just hold Retsubi to prevent Qin from reinforcing Gyou?”

Iirc, Kochou took his 100K elites to Retsubi, right? Ousen now has a fully fed army with an open path to Kantan. A fully fed army that just defeated a Shukai Plains army effectively commanded by Two Great Heavens.

You could recall Kochou’s army to Kantan and leave Shunsuiju to protect Retsubi, but in that case, Tou and Ousen will just sandwich Retsubi and brutalize Shunsuiju and his 100K army there. Kochou could attack Ousen from behind, but this would leave him vulnerable to counter attacks from Yotanwa and Kanki, and would also leave Kantan unprotected.

The best option for Zhao was to consolidate all of their forces at Kantan and double down defensively, which might I add has worked extremely effectively as the combined forces of Yotanwa, Ousen, and Kanki as well as Mouten, Ouhon, and Shin have made little to no progress since the Zhao took up this strategy.
 
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