Theory Kuzan is still working for the navy and the fight with Sakazuki was orchestrated by the gorosei

K

Kuroshika

#1
Hello there ! first time writing a theory on this beautiful new forum ! would like to take a moment thank the admins for that :cheers:
otherwise I wouldn't have any other place to expose my Admiral madness lmaoooooo anyways let's get into my theory :

First of all we are going to talk about the Admiral before time skip, their personnalities and abilities together.

We all know the primary colors of the color spectrum right? Blue, Yellow and Red. with these three colors, you can make all the others. Why did they choose the three primaries tho ? I think it is because the represent brut and simple yet extremely powerful elemental powers. The 3 of them are working incredibly well together. Magma and Ice covered already a vast amount of power, but with light on top of that, you are sure that nobody will be able to take down the navy.
Some futilities also are to take in consideration : Sakazuki and Borsalino joined the navy together. They are since then, nakamas. Kuzan joined later, but he climbed to VA rank along with his new partners. They had the same mentor and spent a lot of time together, you can deduce that they are really close. But it isn't shown on panel time, for I believe, plot purpose.

The colors and powers complete each other, and so do the personnalities !

Sakazuki's hot headed temperature is brought down by Kuzan, Kuzan's lazynes is cut down by Borsalino's enthusiasm, Borsalino's light headed mind is completed by Sakazuki's extreme seriousness.
We have seen them talking to each other, a very few times, but it was enough to see how they act upon each other. I think the three of them have the ability to tear each other up with simple and direct dialogue, even if it doesn't seem much in the first place.

with that in mind, let's start the actual theory I am making, wich is :

Kuzan still works for the navy and his fight against Sakazuki was orchestrated.

I am not afraid to make this statement. This is a risky bet that i'm ready to take, because of intuition and deduction.
Let's start with the beginning, shall we.

Kuzan has been shown as a very, very lazy person. He constantly sleeps on his desk, wich annoys Sakazuki, and barely even gets job done. He is quite smart tho, but so are the two others.
On the other hand, Sakazuki works extremely hard every day to get job done in order to achieve his dreams, whilst Kizaru doesn't seem to be interested in the FA post, but still does his job with happiness and enthusiasm.

So WHY would Kuzan be the one promised the rank of fleet Admiral ? doesn't it seem a bit odd to you ? Of the three admirals, he is the one with the less experience and keeps falling asleep instead of working. -Now listen I'm not trashing him, I LOVE Kuzan, but that seemed way too early for him to get promoted VA-
That doesn't make sense to me. If Sengoku doesn't wanted to get Sakazuki FA, he could have gave the post to Kizaru, wich in my opinion, would have been the best choice. But he didn't. Kuzan gets that rank out of nowhere, he didn't do much during the war either where Sakazuki had both Ace and WB down.

Having curruent Kuzan as an FA would have made no sens, but also would have been extremely disrespectful towards his fellow admirals. Giving him the rank was a trigger.
The Gorosei want a complete control over the navy, wich is what Sakazuki despites the most about them. Sengoku choose his admirals so well, he was the only one able to control them, not because he is stronger but because he bonded with them a solid relation of respect. Like it has been shown in the Z movies, they feel a deep respect for their superiors. That was probably why Sengoku was able to handle the 3 of them. But with Sengoku gone, the Gorosei could not do the same thing, considering how corrupted they are, wich is a thing Sakazuki absolutely despites.

With Sengoku's retreat, they could only do one thing : take down the trio in order for them to have a better control on the navy. That is why Kuzan was promised the rank. It was nothing more than a manipulative move from them, in order to regain complete control over marineford. The initial goal was even probably having Kuzan and Sakazuki ending up killing each other. And why the hell would new admirals come from the WG and not promoted VA directly from the navy ? Made no sens either. The WG clearly tried to get the whole navy restructured for their own benefit and nothing else.

That being said, Sakazuki, Kuzan and Borsalino are everything but stupid. I really, really think they saw through it. The fight on PH happened in order to make the gorosei think they baited. but they didn't.

Kuzan didn't wanted the post. They organized their fight. They took 10 nights and 10 days to let you think of a real one. The injuries were also made up. Kuzan knew he could live without a leg. It's a sacrifice he was willing to take in order to continue and fight for justice, under Sakazuki.
The main reason I have to believe this about the fight is the simple reason that Sakazuki left Kuzan alive.
Sakazuki is not afraid to kill, he is tough and built a solid capacity to kill without regretting over the years. Leaving Kuzan alive, after taking his leg and knowing that he would leave the navy makes no sense. He killed navy soldiers for less than that, so why tf would he let Kuzan get away with that, and probably put the navy in danger if Kuzan ended up having some kind of bitterness towards the navy ? Kuzan ending up giving confidential infos about the navy to pirates ? It makes absolutely no sense to me. It's unlike him. The only reason Kuzan was not killed this very day and that he is still running the sea, in contact with the navy is because Sakazuki told him to do so and he trusts him.
With the little attention they get on panels, we tend to forget that they grew up together. We tend to forget that in order to be the most solid possible protection of the navy, the Admirals must have a deep bond together, and that they are able to work with each other.
Now Kuzan is working for Sakazuki, undercover, in order to observe one of the most powerful threat to the navy : Blackbeard.

That's it my babes, if there is something you didn't understand of want me to develop, feel free to comment and ask me <3
kisses !
 
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#4
Honestly i an not convinced, unlike you i coukd understand why Sengoku wanted Kuzan to become FA instead of Akainu. Akainu indeed follows justice bt he is an extremist in that regard and will kill his own soldiers for the same, to him results mean everything not the means, which Sengoku saw through him and hence suggested Aokiji name.

Bt since Akainu had the bigger feats in MF, he couldn't accept that n felt he deserved the FA position. He thought he was the best among the 3 to lead the Marinea.

That led to fight between em since he didn't agreed with Akainu way of justice. He has stayed long enough with akainu to know this and hence decided to fight him. Bt since his core idea is still justice he is helping the Marines in his own independent way. He showed that in PH when he tried tipping off Smoker.

There are two more points i dont agree with here. WG weakening their own forces, they well realises the imp of stability that these 3 Admirals provide and still feels the loss of losing such a strength, ref their convo with Akainu. Yes you could say that could be a act, bt taking out an Admiral isn't a logical solution to control the Admirals, they could simply have the power to replace the FA afterall. And Admirals also can't igbore their orders, Sengoku n Akainu are oure exanples, given a guy like Akainu is listening to sick orders.
Second, the fight being setup, yes Aokiji could survuve without a leg, bt intentionally loosing a leg with basically only a possibility of getting info doesn't have much merit on this gamble When instead thy simply could use someone else as a spy. So Loosing an leg of someone that imp to Marine strength just with a mere possibility doesn't seem enough reason to orchestate it to me.
 
A

ardym

#5
Kuzan doesn't share Akainu's ideals , and doubt that he wants to help him, Shanks is a possibilty as well , he wanted to talk about a certain Pirate i think it is BB , and he could have sent Aokiji to spy on him
 
K

Kuroshika

#6
Given how he informed Smoker about Doflamingo, told him to warn Sakazuki and told him that the admirals will need to be deployed because of the future events it's clear that Kuzan still has loyalty to the Navy and care for it well-being and future. He might want it to retrieve its moral compass and to be free of fanaticism or corruption.
I think Kuzan still misses the days where he actually worked as an admiral and still cares for his fellow nakamas
 
A

ardym

#7
I think Kuzan still misses the days where he actually worked as an admiral and still cares for his fellow nakamas
sure he wants to save the weak and crash the evil . that whats he wouldn't work for Akainu or even BB , it is obvious that he is not there just to work for BB
 
K

Kuroshika

#9
sure he wants to save the weak and crash the evil . that whats he wouldn't work for Akainu or even BB , it is obvious that he is not there just to work for BB
I don’t see why he couldn’t work for Sakazuki tho. They have different ideals and personnalities for sure, they are still able to work together.
 
A

ardym

#10
I don’t see why he couldn’t work for Sakazuki tho. They have different ideals and personnalities for sure, they are still able to work together.
because if he works for him he will help an ideal that he hates to prevail , he will help the dark justice that doesn't care if there are innocent people or kids or not , Akainu just burns everything and kill even people , who did nothing wrong
 
K

Kuroshika

#11
Honestly i an not convinced, unlike you i coukd understand why Sengoku wanted Kuzan to become FA instead of Akainu. Akainu indeed follows justice bt he is an extremist in that regard and will kill his own soldiers for the same, to him results mean everything not the means, which Sengoku saw through him and hence suggested Aokiji name.
Then why not choose Kizaru ? He is more experienced than Kuzan and gets plenty of job done.
Akainu and Aokiji never agreed on their views yet they have been working together since decades, it never stopped them.
There are two more points i dont agree with here. WG weakening their own forces, they well realises the imp of stability that these 3 Admirals provide and still feels the loss of losing such a strength, ref their convo with Akainu. Yes you could say that could be a act, bt taking out an Admiral isn't a logical solution to control the Admirals, they could simply have the power to replace the FA afterall. And Admirals also can't igbore their orders, Sengoku n Akainu are oure exanples, given a guy like Akainu is listening to sick orders.
Second, the fight being setup, yes Aokiji could survuve without a leg, bt intentionally loosing a leg with basically only a possibility of getting info doesn't have much merit on this gamble When instead thy simply could use someone else as a spy. So Loosing an leg of someone that imp to Marine strength just with a mere possibility doesn't seem enough reason to orchestate it to me.
Then why give two of the WG men as new admirals instead of upping the actual VAs? Fujitora and Ryokugyu arrived out of nowhere and were promoted admirals whilst VAs like Momonga and Hina worked hard for an upper rank, that sounds tacky to me. The gorosei didn’t nerf the navy, they nerfed the previous admirals as a powerful trio. They choose some random men who don’t know each other in order to weaken their emotional bond so they could control them better. Fujitora and Ryokugyu are extremely powerful as Doflamingo said, but they just arrived. They don’t have the experience Kuzan Sakazuki and Borsalino were given. They are not their childhood friends, they are just coworkers.
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because if he works for him he will help an ideal that he hates to prevail , he will help the dark justice that doesn't care if there are innocent people or kids or not , Akainu just burns everything and kill even people , who did nothing wrong
Then why did he let Kuzan leave? This logic implies that he would have killed him and not just won the fight against him. Kuzan out of the navy is a dangerous threat, Sakazuki would never let that happen.
 
A

ardym

#13
Then why not choose Kizaru ? He is more experienced than Kuzan and gets plenty of job done.
Akainu and Aokiji never agreed on their views yet they have been working together since decades, it never stopped them.
working together is different from work for , and Akainu is now the one who decides which path the marines should use
 

Pantheos

Heavy Metal
#14
Just read through your theory and i love this building theories and get them growing and find hints and stuff. But you dont have anything which directs in that way. Your 2 strings you try to Keep on are Aokiji still alive and does it not make sense to take Aokiji over Akainu.

So, from my Point of view, These 2 strings could be answered:
1. Akainu could have left him alive because of their bonding the years before, they were kinda friends, comerades for many years and Akainu knows how loyal Aokiji is, he could have left him alive, just because of that.

2. Aokiji over Akainu makes sense in my eyes. Akainu is very extreme in his Picture of justice. I am pretty sure Sengoku decided against Akainu in the Moment when Akainu tried to kill Coby. When a pirate Needs to save a marine from his Admiral, then you know this Admiral isnt supposed to be a lead.

But i get your Point and your idea, i really like it. Would be awesome when it Comes that way, i just cant see it.
 
#15
Then why not choose Kizaru ? He is more experienced than Kuzan and gets plenty of job done.
Akainu and Aokiji never agreed on their views yet they have been working together since decades, it never stopped them.

Then why give two of the WG men as new admirals instead of upping the actual VAs? Fujitora and Ryokugyu arrived out of nowhere and were promoted admirals whilst VAs like Momonga and Hina worked hard for an upper rank, that sounds tacky to me. The gorosei didn’t nerf the navy, they nerfed the previous admirals as a powerful trio. They choose some random men who don’t know each other in order to weaken their emotional bond so they could control them better. Fujitora and Ryokugyu are extremely powerful as Doflamingo said, but they just arrived. They don’t have the experience Kuzan Sakazuki and Borsalino were given. They are not their childhood friends, they are just coworkers.
Because Sengoku realised Aokiji has true sense of Justice, what would benefit Marines in the long run.. And Oda also highlighted that bout Aokiji in the past, while we saw nothing of such for Kizaru makin Aokiji a better Navy leader to us OP fans, which was the grand idea behind it.

Yes bt they weren't working for each other thn, it was Sengoku orders they were following.

Because VAs might not be strong enough to be Admirals, while they got better candidates.

WG didn't, it is an assumption only so far. It was Akainu n Aokiji instead that couldn't settle on to who to lead the Navy next and fought for it, resulting into two spots open and WG had to look for more candidates.

Also just imagine, one of the two new Admirals could have been the spies, if it was ultimate motive here. No one knew how they looked in th3 start and Akainu could have ordered him to do so, instead of orchestrating a battle, that weakened their own forces i.e Aokiji loosing a leg based on a mere possibility.
And WG also never hinted the 3 Admirals were too powerful for em to control, they always have been there. They have the power to disband any of em, also have the support of the member countries.
 
K

Kuroshika

#16
Just read through your theory and i love this building theories and get them growing and find hints and stuff. But you dont have anything which directs in that way. Your 2 strings you try to Keep on are Aokiji still alive and does it not make sense to take Aokiji over Akainu.

So, from my Point of view, These 2 strings could be answered:
1. Akainu could have left him alive because of their bonding the years before, they were kinda friends, comerades for many years and Akainu knows how loyal Aokiji is, he could have left him alive, just because of that.

2. Aokiji over Akainu makes sense in my eyes. Akainu is very extreme in his Picture of justice. I am pretty sure Sengoku decided against Akainu in the Moment when Akainu tried to kill Coby. When a pirate Needs to save a marine from his Admiral, then you know this Admiral isnt supposed to be a lead.

But i get your Point and your idea, i really like it. Would be awesome when it Comes that way, i just cant see it.
1.Akainu’s views of justice wouldn’t let somebody as dangerous for the navy as Kuzan wandering the seas and give navy confidential informations to the pirates, that is too dangerous. He would rather have killed his friend in dignity than let him become a pirate collaborator.

2. You seem to forget Kizaru my dear, Kizaru could have been promoted FA too as I said. But even tho he is has experience and does really good job, on top of being the oldest, Sengoku didn’t even bat an eye at him. Why is that ? Why wasn’t Kizaru even taken in consideration ?
 
#18
1.Akainu’s views of justice wouldn’t let somebody as dangerous for the navy as Kuzan wandering the seas and give navy confidential informations to the pirates, that is too dangerous. He would rather have killed his friend in dignity than let him become a pirate collaborator.

2. You seem to forget Kizaru my dear, Kizaru could have been promoted FA too as I said. But even tho he is has experience and does really good job, on top of being the oldest, Sengoku didn’t even bat an eye at him. Why is that ? Why wasn’t Kizaru even taken in consideration ?
5 Admirals for the Marines ?

:steef:
 

Pantheos

Heavy Metal
#20
1.Akainu’s views of justice wouldn’t let somebody as dangerous for the navy as Kuzan wandering the seas and give navy confidential informations to the pirates, that is too dangerous. He would rather have killed his friend in dignity than let him become a pirate collaborator.

2. You seem to forget Kizaru my dear, Kizaru could have been promoted FA too as I said. But even tho he is has experience and does really good job, on top of being the oldest, Sengoku didn’t even bat an eye at him. Why is that ? Why wasn’t Kizaru even taken in consideration ?
1. It isnt dangerous as Long as Akainu has enough trust in Aokiji, which seems like that and Aokiji proofs him to be right by warning Smoker for example. Additionally, we have no idea what Kind of contract both decided at the end of the fight. Theire Connection could be also way deeper then we know about.

2. I dont forgott about Kizaru, but he is no Kind of leader. He is very lightheaded and doesnt think about possibilities. For example when he wanted to head for Wano and needed to be stopped, i didnt even thought about it a second time. You cant give the lead to someone this lightheaded.
 
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