Powers & Abilities Luffy vs Kaidou: hidden power cards of each
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Hold up, so what do Haki barriers exactly do to Kaido?
remember the reason why Penetration haki works on Kaido isn’t because “It’s haki so it works on Kaido”. No. Penetration works because it ignores durability.
Kaido isn’t a logia, you don’t just hurt him because you have haki. The haki has to do specific things. Luffy’s hardening in G4 did nothing to Kaido. So what is the difference between Getting hit by a Luffy hardened punch and getting hit by a barrier from Luffy?
They a both haki attacks that do plain blunt force right? Is the blunt for a a barrier magically more effective than the blunt for a a hardened punch?
that’s why I asked about Bartolommeo. If haki barriers work on Kaido then Bartolommeo barriers should as well since Kaido isn’t a logia and haki barriers are not presented to specifically have magic Kaido hurting properties right?
remember the reason why Penetration haki works on Kaido isn’t because “It’s haki so it works on Kaido”. No. Penetration works because it ignores durability.
Kaido isn’t a logia, you don’t just hurt him because you have haki. The haki has to do specific things. Luffy’s hardening in G4 did nothing to Kaido. So what is the difference between Getting hit by a Luffy hardened punch and getting hit by a barrier from Luffy?
They a both haki attacks that do plain blunt force right? Is the blunt for a a barrier magically more effective than the blunt for a a hardened punch?
that’s why I asked about Bartolommeo. If haki barriers work on Kaido then Bartolommeo barriers should as well since Kaido isn’t a logia and haki barriers are not presented to specifically have magic Kaido hurting properties right?
Are you saying Bartolommeo’s barriers don’t also have offensive properties?
And are you saying the difference is “magnitude of potency”?
So Luffy just needs higher attack potency to hurt Kaido? Is Luffy using a barrier in BASE FORM and hurting kaido proof that Luffy’s barriers have HIGHER attack potency than All of his G4 abilities?
you realize that you are implying these barriers give Luffy exponentially higher power? That Luffy could’ve easily be hundreds of time stronger than he was simply by getting these barriers?
Remember, no one actually believes Luffy is getting this strong with penetration haki. With penetration the concept is simply durability hax. But what you are suggesting for Barriers is that Luffy is indeed getting ridiculously stronger than he ever was
And are you saying the difference is “magnitude of potency”?
So Luffy just needs higher attack potency to hurt Kaido? Is Luffy using a barrier in BASE FORM and hurting kaido proof that Luffy’s barriers have HIGHER attack potency than All of his G4 abilities?
you realize that you are implying these barriers give Luffy exponentially higher power? That Luffy could’ve easily be hundreds of time stronger than he was simply by getting these barriers?
Remember, no one actually believes Luffy is getting this strong with penetration haki. With penetration the concept is simply durability hax. But what you are suggesting for Barriers is that Luffy is indeed getting ridiculously stronger than he ever was
Bro, Bartolomeo barrier has nothing to do with the barrier Haki the hell are you talking about?
The Scabbards were able to hurt Kaido due to Ryou in which you can also create barriers. Literally ZERO to do with Bartolomeo's barrier which is supposed to be so indestructible that even Oden couldn't cut, yeah the same Oden who used Ryou to cut Kaido.
The Scabbards were able to hurt Kaido due to Ryou in which you can also create barriers. Literally ZERO to do with Bartolomeo's barrier which is supposed to be so indestructible that even Oden couldn't cut, yeah the same Oden who used Ryou to cut Kaido.
@ImmaIvanoM got a point though.
Barrier Haki would push against Kaido's dragon scales or his extremely durable skin just like a big- blunt force- punch would do. It''s legit just an energy blast that''s able to damage logias.
At some point it might work on Kaido because it just gets that strong (Roger lvl of haki flow for example) , similiar to how a KKG would prolly hurt him aswell, but it's definitely not because of the nature of that ability itself (solely in comb with slashes and stabs)
And let's not ignore the fact that there is really no haki blast/release drawn during that scene. And what creates the power behind those advCoA attacks in the first place is the sudden release of those bigger amounts of haki.
Same way it being a literal fire based move makes also just like no sense at all.
Red hawk ignited through the friction that is caused when Luffy pulls back his hand at high speed and shoots it through the air.
In that panel he just jumps, pulls back his arm, blows it up and fires off that actually smaller version of G3.
It totally lacks the "red hawk mechanic".
Imo it's an advCoA lvl2 move. The overflowing haki is just drawn like fire for it to match that red hawk theme, in order to make again a call back to Ace.
So the actual damage comes from the internal haki blast that Luffy pumped into Kaido's head while punching him into the ground.
Beforehand G3 and G4 could already respectively pummel his dragon and base form. Imo a G3 headshot bringing him down is in the realm of possibility. Before it simply did no damage solely by itself.
Barrier Haki would push against Kaido's dragon scales or his extremely durable skin just like a big- blunt force- punch would do. It''s legit just an energy blast that''s able to damage logias.
At some point it might work on Kaido because it just gets that strong (Roger lvl of haki flow for example) , similiar to how a KKG would prolly hurt him aswell, but it's definitely not because of the nature of that ability itself (solely in comb with slashes and stabs)
And let's not ignore the fact that there is really no haki blast/release drawn during that scene. And what creates the power behind those advCoA attacks in the first place is the sudden release of those bigger amounts of haki.
Same way it being a literal fire based move makes also just like no sense at all.
Red hawk ignited through the friction that is caused when Luffy pulls back his hand at high speed and shoots it through the air.
In that panel he just jumps, pulls back his arm, blows it up and fires off that actually smaller version of G3.
It totally lacks the "red hawk mechanic".
Imo it's an advCoA lvl2 move. The overflowing haki is just drawn like fire for it to match that red hawk theme, in order to make again a call back to Ace.
So the actual damage comes from the internal haki blast that Luffy pumped into Kaido's head while punching him into the ground.
Beforehand G3 and G4 could already respectively pummel his dragon and base form. Imo a G3 headshot bringing him down is in the realm of possibility. Before it simply did no damage solely by itself.
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If any Scabbards knew internal destruction they would have thought Luffy after Udon instead he stood there with Hyo who didn't knew how. No Scabbards have that internal destruction Haki only Ryou.
Furthermore of course Bartolomeo's barrier could be used as an offensive threat but again in NO way it works like Ryou, it just doesn't and there is no way around that.
Also the Red Roc fire started just like Red Hawk he inflated his arm threw back and we can actually see it without fire and only when he throws the punch it ignites with the friction. So yeah pretty much the same as Red Hawk. Difference is this one could be using Ryou to create more friction but only that.
Furthermore of course Bartolomeo's barrier could be used as an offensive threat but again in NO way it works like Ryou, it just doesn't and there is no way around that.
Also the Red Roc fire started just like Red Hawk he inflated his arm threw back and we can actually see it without fire and only when he throws the punch it ignites with the friction. So yeah pretty much the same as Red Hawk. Difference is this one could be using Ryou to create more friction but only that.
Scabbards' barrier haki hurt Kaidou, it pierced his skin from the outside alongside their swords, causing visible wounds being opened. It means the damage comes from the outside and enter Kaidou's body. The same case with Luffy's barrier haki, only more significant in causing the damage to Kaidou (Kaidou instantly falling like Pacifista with damage impact to the surrounding, Kaidou's and BM being shocked), which indicates better barrier haki than the scabbards despite the scabbards using swords+barrier haki.
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Whether the haki blast can damage Kaidou from the outside or not imo is just depending on how strong the barrier CoA is. Zoro used barrier CoA (breath of all things) to cut steel, just like Hyogoro mentioned. And Hyogoro mentioned that Luffy's internal destruction is even higher than what he is ever capable of doing. Luffy doing internal damage to the tree from the distance without even needing to contact physically with the target, is different from Red Roc which damaged Kaidou from the outside impact shown in the panel of Kaidou's face. That's why imo Luffy most likely still held back his Internal Destruction.
...just like how i think Kaidou still held back his true mythical fish form, which i intend to actually discuss as well instead of just focusing on Luffy's powerup.
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Whether the haki blast can damage Kaidou from the outside or not imo is just depending on how strong the barrier CoA is. Zoro used barrier CoA (breath of all things) to cut steel, just like Hyogoro mentioned. And Hyogoro mentioned that Luffy's internal destruction is even higher than what he is ever capable of doing. Luffy doing internal damage to the tree from the distance without even needing to contact physically with the target, is different from Red Roc which damaged Kaidou from the outside impact shown in the panel of Kaidou's face. That's why imo Luffy most likely still held back his Internal Destruction.
...just like how i think Kaidou still held back his true mythical fish form, which i intend to actually discuss as well instead of just focusing on Luffy's powerup.
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Yeah I support you on this one.
But the problem with the Red Roc scene is, that there is no barrier haki release happening in that panel.
The thing is, the haki around his fist has to be released in order to create that powerful haki blast, that we call "barrier haki". Simply letting your haki flow onto your fist won't do the job.
Here he let a big amount of haki flow onto his hands, but failed to perform the actual barrier haki move, which resulted in him getting clapped by O'lin, cause no haki release was there to stop her slap.
Addtionally there is simply no visual in that panel that portrays that kinda haki release/blast.
The one that looks like it is actually just Oda's way of drawing an impact.
Circled in red.
You see the same on something like that..
There are a dozen of other examples.
Barrier haki looks like this
It looks completely different.
And like I said: Without the haki release you've got no impact.
Addtionally Luffy's fist actually made PHYSICAL CONTACT with Kaido's face. It's what punches him into the ground, not some non existing barrier haki release.
There is simply no argument there for it being advCoA lvl1.
Like I showed above, his fist actually makes physical contact with Kaido's face though. There is not haki release happening.
And the tree scene is misguiding. Yeah in an isolated scene like that, the space gap between the fist and the haki blast gets portrayed clearly and we also can see the haki blast happening, because the tree or the collars actually explode. But all that is not happening in an actual combat situation.
The opponent's head won't explode and because of the fact, that the haki blast is put into the opponent's body, it won't make physical contact with the exterior of the opponent's body and therefore the fist still makes physical contact. Something that for example can't happening if barrier haki is used, because then the barrier haki makes conact with the exterior.
That's also why Luffy's base advCoA lvl2 moves won't be as strong as his advCoA lvl2 gear3 or gear4 moves. The physical attack still makes contact and therefore counts.
We actually have seen it before
You see, Sabo's dragon claw makes contact with Burgess armour before his haki blast destroys it from within.
Same happened with the exploding collars.
Now the question is: What's up with that fire? I mean is it actually real fire, as it is during "Red Hawk" or is it Haki, that's just drawn as fire, solely for matching the theme?
And that's where I also have my problems with. I mean a smaller version of G3 with fire normally shouldn't be that powerful and especially not powerful enough to hurt Kaido. And the Red hawk mechanism also is missing. Furhermore he just came from a haki training session. All of it just doesn't add up. But the visuals are suspicious.
I'd argue it's an advanced CoA lvl2 move, whereas the surrounding haki gets drawn as fire,. It's probably there to match that certain theme as a 2.0 call back to Ace. Similiar to how during Thor Elephant gun, where no actual lightning is involved aswell.
And because of advCoA lvl2 it is also able to damage Kaido this much.
But the problem with the Red Roc scene is, that there is no barrier haki release happening in that panel.
The thing is, the haki around his fist has to be released in order to create that powerful haki blast, that we call "barrier haki". Simply letting your haki flow onto your fist won't do the job.
Here he let a big amount of haki flow onto his hands, but failed to perform the actual barrier haki move, which resulted in him getting clapped by O'lin, cause no haki release was there to stop her slap.
The one that looks like it is actually just Oda's way of drawing an impact.
You see the same on something like that..
Barrier haki looks like this
And like I said: Without the haki release you've got no impact.
Addtionally Luffy's fist actually made PHYSICAL CONTACT with Kaido's face. It's what punches him into the ground, not some non existing barrier haki release.
Like I showed above, his fist actually makes physical contact with Kaido's face though. There is not haki release happening.
And the tree scene is misguiding. Yeah in an isolated scene like that, the space gap between the fist and the haki blast gets portrayed clearly and we also can see the haki blast happening, because the tree or the collars actually explode. But all that is not happening in an actual combat situation.
The opponent's head won't explode and because of the fact, that the haki blast is put into the opponent's body, it won't make physical contact with the exterior of the opponent's body and therefore the fist still makes physical contact. Something that for example can't happening if barrier haki is used, because then the barrier haki makes conact with the exterior.
That's also why Luffy's base advCoA lvl2 moves won't be as strong as his advCoA lvl2 gear3 or gear4 moves. The physical attack still makes contact and therefore counts.
We actually have seen it before
Same happened with the exploding collars.
Now the question is: What's up with that fire? I mean is it actually real fire, as it is during "Red Hawk" or is it Haki, that's just drawn as fire, solely for matching the theme?
And that's where I also have my problems with. I mean a smaller version of G3 with fire normally shouldn't be that powerful and especially not powerful enough to hurt Kaido. And the Red hawk mechanism also is missing. Furhermore he just came from a haki training session. All of it just doesn't add up. But the visuals are suspicious.
I'd argue it's an advanced CoA lvl2 move, whereas the surrounding haki gets drawn as fire,. It's probably there to match that certain theme as a 2.0 call back to Ace. Similiar to how during Thor Elephant gun, where no actual lightning is involved aswell.
And because of advCoA lvl2 it is also able to damage Kaido this much.
Yeah I support you on this one.
But the problem with the Red Roc scene is, that there is no barrier haki release happening in that panel.
The thing is, the haki around his fist has to be released in order to create that powerful haki blast, that we call "barrier haki". Simply letting your haki flow onto your fist won't do the job.
Here he let a big amount of haki flow onto his hands, but failed to perform the actual barrier haki move, which resulted in him getting clapped by O'lin, cause no haki release was there to stop her slap.
Addtionally there is simply no visual in that panel that portrays that kinda haki release/blast.
The one that looks like it is actually just Oda's way of drawing an impact.
Circled in red.
You see the same on something like that..
There are a dozen of other examples.
Barrier haki looks like this
It looks completely different.
And like I said: Without the haki release you've got no impact.
Addtionally Luffy's fist actually made PHYSICAL CONTACT with Kaido's face. It's what punches him into the ground, not some non existing barrier haki release.
There is simply no argument there for it being advCoA lvl1.
Like I showed above, his fist actually makes physical contact with Kaido's face though. There is not haki release happening.
And the tree scene is misguiding. Yeah in an isolated scene like that, the space gap between the fist and the haki blast gets portrayed clearly and we also can see the haki blast happening, because the tree or the collars actually explode. But all that is not happening in an actual combat situation.
The opponent's head won't explode and because of the fact, that the haki blast is put into the opponent's body, it won't make physical contact with the exterior of the opponent's body and therefore the fist still makes physical contact. Something that for example can't happening if barrier haki is used, because then the barrier haki makes conact with the exterior.
That's also why Luffy's base advCoA lvl2 moves won't be as strong as his advCoA lvl2 gear3 or gear4 moves. The physical attack still makes contact and therefore counts.
We actually have seen it before
You see, Sabo's dragon claw makes contact with Burgess armour before his haki blast destroys it from within.
Same happened with the exploding collars.
Now the question is: What's up with that fire? I mean is it actually real fire, as it is during "Red Hawk" or is it Haki, that's just drawn as fire, solely for matching the theme?
And that's where I also have my problems with. I mean a smaller version of G3 with fire normally shouldn't be that powerful and especially not powerful enough to hurt Kaido. And the Red hawk mechanism also is missing. Furhermore he just came from a haki training session. All of it just doesn't add up. But the visuals are suspicious.
I'd argue it's an advanced CoA lvl2 move, whereas the surrounding haki gets drawn as fire,. It's probably there to match that certain theme as a 2.0 call back to Ace. Similiar to how during Thor Elephant gun, where no actual lightning is involved aswell.
And because of advCoA lvl2 it is also able to damage Kaido this much.
But the problem with the Red Roc scene is, that there is no barrier haki release happening in that panel.
The thing is, the haki around his fist has to be released in order to create that powerful haki blast, that we call "barrier haki". Simply letting your haki flow onto your fist won't do the job.
Here he let a big amount of haki flow onto his hands, but failed to perform the actual barrier haki move, which resulted in him getting clapped by O'lin, cause no haki release was there to stop her slap.
The one that looks like it is actually just Oda's way of drawing an impact.
You see the same on something like that..
Barrier haki looks like this
And like I said: Without the haki release you've got no impact.
Addtionally Luffy's fist actually made PHYSICAL CONTACT with Kaido's face. It's what punches him into the ground, not some non existing barrier haki release.
Like I showed above, his fist actually makes physical contact with Kaido's face though. There is not haki release happening.
And the tree scene is misguiding. Yeah in an isolated scene like that, the space gap between the fist and the haki blast gets portrayed clearly and we also can see the haki blast happening, because the tree or the collars actually explode. But all that is not happening in an actual combat situation.
The opponent's head won't explode and because of the fact, that the haki blast is put into the opponent's body, it won't make physical contact with the exterior of the opponent's body and therefore the fist still makes physical contact. Something that for example can't happening if barrier haki is used, because then the barrier haki makes conact with the exterior.
That's also why Luffy's base advCoA lvl2 moves won't be as strong as his advCoA lvl2 gear3 or gear4 moves. The physical attack still makes contact and therefore counts.
We actually have seen it before
Same happened with the exploding collars.
Now the question is: What's up with that fire? I mean is it actually real fire, as it is during "Red Hawk" or is it Haki, that's just drawn as fire, solely for matching the theme?
And that's where I also have my problems with. I mean a smaller version of G3 with fire normally shouldn't be that powerful and especially not powerful enough to hurt Kaido. And the Red hawk mechanism also is missing. Furhermore he just came from a haki training session. All of it just doesn't add up. But the visuals are suspicious.
I'd argue it's an advanced CoA lvl2 move, whereas the surrounding haki gets drawn as fire,. It's probably there to match that certain theme as a 2.0 call back to Ace. Similiar to how during Thor Elephant gun, where no actual lightning is involved aswell.
And because of advCoA lvl2 it is also able to damage Kaido this much.
After chapter 1010,
Luffy has shown his hidden cards:
- barrier haki (shown in Red Roc)
- better CoC control (midfight learning - shown in)
Kaidou has shown his hidden cards:
- elemental attacks
- hybrid mode
I predict Kaidou will have 1 or 2 more hidden card. Like an ultimate invincible form of Leviathan or Fastitocalon, with unique powers. While Luffy will also have 1 or 2 more variations, which may be his polished King Haki - cladded attacks, and one more is Internal Destruction Armament on par with or superior to that of Rayleigh's.
Luffy being Luffy will use his creativity to generate fusion of these two techniques - (fanfic alert) making his own original weapon: a golden armor, a crimson cape, and a pair of gauntlets with over-the-top design, made of his haki unification manifest. The King's Cloth and Infinity Gauntlet, if you will. A tribute to Saint Seiya, a tribute to Luffy's own boyish romance about knights, and a suitable combat outfit for the king.
Luffy has shown his hidden cards:
- barrier haki (shown in Red Roc)
- better CoC control (midfight learning - shown in)
Kaidou has shown his hidden cards:
- elemental attacks
- hybrid mode
I predict Kaidou will have 1 or 2 more hidden card. Like an ultimate invincible form of Leviathan or Fastitocalon, with unique powers. While Luffy will also have 1 or 2 more variations, which may be his polished King Haki - cladded attacks, and one more is Internal Destruction Armament on par with or superior to that of Rayleigh's.
Luffy being Luffy will use his creativity to generate fusion of these two techniques - (fanfic alert) making his own original weapon: a golden armor, a crimson cape, and a pair of gauntlets with over-the-top design, made of his haki unification manifest. The King's Cloth and Infinity Gauntlet, if you will. A tribute to Saint Seiya, a tribute to Luffy's own boyish romance about knights, and a suitable combat outfit for the king.