Powers & Abilities Mythical Zoans don't need transformation (Ace > Yamato confirmed)

[SkySanji]

Yeah sure, but there’s enough times where it doesn’t that you can’t assume Loki used haki. It’s a black hammer that has the power of lightning, it having black lightning coming out could just be the hammer.

If it's used 99% of the time to represent haki then, yes, I can reasonably assume it is haki. Especially since Oda went out of his way to draw both normal colored lightning and black haki lightning in the same page, if it was just lightning, it would all be the same color.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

If it's used 99% of the time to represent haki then, yes, I can reasonably assume it is haki. Especially since Oda went out of his way to draw both normal colored lightning and black haki lightning in the same page, if it was just lightning, it would all be the same color.

Not after oda went out of his way to state DF users can’t use haki when chained in seastone.

There’s enough times where oda uses black lightning without haki usage, you can’t use this as definitive proof that lokis using haki.

 

[SkySanji]

Not after oda went out of his way to state DF users can’t use haki when chained in seastone.

There’s enough times where oda uses black lightning without haki usage, you can’t use this as definitive proof that lokis using haki.

I can and already have. Oda isn't consistent about anything, but far more times than not, when black lightning is shown, it represents haki.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

I can and already have. Oda isn't consistent about anything, but far more times than not, when black lightning is shown, it represents haki.

You’re just using a cyclical argument then. Black lightning doesn’t necessitate haki usage. That’s just canon.

 

[SkySanji]

You’re just using a cyclical argument then. Black lightning doesn’t necessitate haki usage. That’s just canon.

You already agreed with me that 99% of the time, black lightning represents haki usage. 99% of the time is consistent enough for me to say confidently that Loki used haki in this instance, especially given the fact that there are also typical lightning bolts alongside the black lightning.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

You already agreed with me that 99% of the time, black lightning represents haki usage. 99% of the time is consistent enough for me to say confidently that Loki used haki in this instance, especially given the fact that there are also typical lightning bolts alongside the black lightning.

99% of the time is consistent enough to say not all Black Lightning usage is haki. And the fact that the only black lightning usage we have is from a hammer that literally uses the power of lightning, it’s clear that this case was not haki either just Ragnirs ability.

 

[Erkan12]

Kaido possesses the same devil fruit as momo does. He is immune to blunt damage and weapons even in his base. You need Ryou/CoC to bypass his durability in base and with his devil fruit activated.

Theres no clear indication that it's strictly due to his genes from Oden. It's clear as day that the Azure Dragon devil grants invincibility to physical damage with or without the transformation lol.

True.

We see that Kaido can even lift an island without transformation, some people thinking he wouldn't have his DF durability makes no sense.

 

[Bad English]

Ace>=pre TS Yamato, current Yamato should be stronger.

 

[Bogard]

Yamato herself used an ice-shield(opposite element to Ace's fire) against the bombs without transforming

In either case, don't think either of them went all out. Oda's intention was just to show they were comparable(with Ace having higher potential)

 

[JoNdule]

Not after oda went out of his way to state DF users can’t use haki when chained in seastone.

There’s enough times where oda uses black lightning without haki usage, you can’t use this as definitive proof that lokis using haki.

Oda never said this
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Yamato herself used an ice-shield(opposite element to Ace's fire) against the bombs without transforming

In either case, don't think either of them went all out. Oda's intention was just to show they were comparable(with Ace having higher potential)

Yamato was stronger than Ace and still stronger than Ace that died

That's why Oda didn't want her too use zoan or hybrid forms
Ace was out there using his df per usual and start hyping Yamato

 

[Bogard]

Oda never said this
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Yamato was stronger than Ace and still stronger than Ace that died

That's why Oda didn't want her too use zoan or hybrid forms
Ace was out there using his df per usual and start hyping Yamato

They clashed with low lvl moves, then Ace understood Yamato hated her father and wanted to call her out for this, which he succeeded in, then it was off-paneled, and next time we see them, they have minor bandages while revealing they started liking each other(and thus without going all out). It was Oda's way to show they were comparable

 

[Don Diego]

And this was against a far weaker version of Ace too who couldn't use island level attacks

Only low IQ clowns use this to slander Fire Fist to downplay him

Real ones know how strong Ace is

Way weaker than 19 years old Luffy without awakening

 

[Loki D. Terror]

Ace is one shot material for base Kaido. He is weaker than post wci Luffy.

 

[Kiiro]

If her hybrid mode or df wasnt yet introduced, its obvious Oda wont show it otherwise he will spoil it when he didnt want it.

 

[JoNdule]

They clashed with low lvl moves, then Ace understood Yamato hated her father and wanted to call her out for this, which he succeeded in, then it was off-paneled, and next time we see them, they have minor bandages while revealing they started liking each other(and thus without going all out). It was Oda's way to show they were comparable

If you see that fight and think Oda wanted to say ace ~ Yamato, you're simply wrong

Yamato was never bothered by Ace's power while Ace's was thinking she was the captain and couldn't come close to dominating base Yamato (no other forms used)

Ace that died will never stall Kaido for 20 min
Dude can't even do much to Yami Teach

 

[Jija]

We see that Kaido can even lift an island without transformation, some people thinking he wouldn't have his DF durability makes no sense.

How he can havr his df durability without dragon scale?

 

[Kōri no kokyū]

Erkan pushing Ace to 1026 Kaidou

Bro thinks Blackbeard wins against Kaidou with just Yami in pre time skip.

 

[trav]

How he can havr his df durability without dragon scale?

It makes little sense, yet it is what the manga depicted.

 

[mmd]

Yamato neg ace
Yamato:
Advcoc
Awakening
Kaido gen
Ace:
Logia

 

[L57]

Lol no, at most they're using partial transformations, which Marco has shown several times, but in the case of Momo, it's specifically stated that he's that tough because he's Oden's son, nothing to do with his devil fruit.

Yamato didn't use her devil fruit against Ace at all, in fact she was wearing seastone cuffs the entire time, Ace and therefore Yami Blackbeard, are just fodder to base heavily nerfed Yamato.

Cuffs werent sea stone