Rules Naruto Gaiden – The Whirlwind inside the Vortex
- Thread starter TheAncientCenturion
- Start date
I enjoyed it. Certain parts could've been longer, I suppose like the battle against the 9-tails (not just action-wise, I felt it all happened quite quickly). I really limed it though, Kushina and Minato have always been pretty great and seeing more of their relationship and love for each other is something I'm appreciative of. The Rasengan's creation, along with Minato declaring his love for Kushina, all in all, a good one-shot.
The art was stunning as well. I always liked how Kishi drew Kushina's hair-colour.
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The art was stunning as well. I always liked how Kishi drew Kushina's hair-colour.
Bruh you gotta say these things. All those messages where we could have talked about the superior manga that is Naruto and not One Piece man.. 
Btw who are your faves lol?
Vinland Saga it is then.
Btw who are your faves lol?
Vinland Saga it is then.
Might Guy
Jiraya
Pain maybe
Hashirama is also cool
in the distant future
All of that just for him to
> get stomped by Kinkaku and Ginkaku
> admit inferiority to Minato on numerous occasions
> Be inferior to both Oro and Kabuto at ET
> be inferior to Naruto at kagebunshin
> Be used as Madara's plaything
> Be of no concern to Hiruzen while my man Professor is out here sweating bullets trying to stop Minato's ET
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Real talk tho and banter aside, some of these sound cool, but I have a hard time seeing Kishi explaining them as well as the fact that Tobirama while relatively popular iirc he was top 15 in this most recent poll is far below the likes of characters like Sakumo and Shisui in the popularity, of whom we know very little and who did not appear that much altogether. Heck I'd personally rather get more of the Professor mastering Jutsus, probably some never before seen as well over that ngl. I'd take a Sasori or a Zabuza one shot over Tobi in a heartbeat as well lol.
I won't deny that it could be cool to have some of the exposition on how these techs came to be, as well as another pov for the Uchiha Senju conflict, I feel like Kishi is kinda past that. Idk just a Tobi one shot seems very unlikely to me.
Minato literally just has Senjutsu and being slightly faster with Hirashin, everything else pretty much has him outclassed. Hell, we know Tobirama before his PEAK had already years of experience fighting Madara and Izuna and dealing with Magenkyou Sharingan users. The only thing the final arc of Naruto really showed as far as the Hokages are concerned is that all the hype and reputation about Sandaime/Sarutobi got buried into the ground because Kishimoto wanted to demonstrate how much stronger peak Hashiramra and Tobirama were for warring against the Uchiha headed by Izuna and Madara with the MS and EMS were.
Even the scan you posted has Madara acknowledging Tobirama's speed and that's WITH witnessing and seeing how Hashirama and Minato are fighting alongside him. We even SAW Minato's Hirashin seals being teleported and overwritten by Tobirama's own ones because he knows how the technique works even better.
Could you post the panel? For the life of me I can't recall that, albeit it's been a while since I've read Naruto.
And I think you're mixing them up. Why would Minato praise Tobirama for moving the Juubidama when it was Minato that was doing that? The Hokages grand entrance to the war is Minato transporting a huge Juubidama away so it doesn't hit the alliance which is what prompts Tobirama to say that Minato is fast at striking too. Moreover, Tobirama verbatim says he can't move everyone like Minato can. It's in the panel I posted above.
This is only usable with ET which requires prep beforehand. And it's heavily implied Tobirama could only bind like 1 or 2 people. Like I posted above, Chiyo is surprised that the technique evolved so much that a Shinobi can now bind more souls and calls him impressive.
By virtue of using Sage Mode we know Minato has enormous chakra reserves. We can extend the bod to Tobirama and say he has higher reserves, but this has nothing to do with what I said.
Minato is faster, has Sage Mode, has sealing techniques of the Uzumaki. In a battle of speedsters, like Minato and Tobirama are, being faster would be the deciding factor. Not to mention Minato at least has rasengan to deal damage. Tobirama legit has nothing. Only the praise of being a good suiton user which we never saw lol. Chained Tags don't really work when Minato can teleport away and like I said they require prep.
Madara and Hashirama are head and shoulders above their brothers. Yeah Tobirama beat Izuna, but Minato defacto beat a Madara trained Obito with probably the most haxxed MS in the verse and with Obito having knowledge on Minato but Minato having zero. And he managed to stop the Kyuubi too.
We still didn't see Prime Professor Hiruzen, the one called the God of Shinobi. Nevertheless, Hiruzen was also stronger and more talented than Tobi per the databooks all the way from his childhood.
That's Madara goading Tobirama. That's why he's saying used to. At one point in time Tobirama was the fastest, but not anymore. We have it from the horse's own mouth lol.
If you want praise from Madara how about that his entire plan hinged on Minato being away in order to sway Obito to his side.
And I think you're mixing them up. Why would Minato praise Tobirama for moving the Juubidama when it was Minato that was doing that? The Hokages grand entrance to the war is Minato transporting a huge Juubidama away so it doesn't hit the alliance which is what prompts Tobirama to say that Minato is fast at striking too. Moreover, Tobirama verbatim says he can't move everyone like Minato can. It's in the panel I posted above.
This is only usable with ET which requires prep beforehand. And it's heavily implied Tobirama could only bind like 1 or 2 people. Like I posted above, Chiyo is surprised that the technique evolved so much that a Shinobi can now bind more souls and calls him impressive.
By virtue of using Sage Mode we know Minato has enormous chakra reserves. We can extend the bod to Tobirama and say he has higher reserves, but this has nothing to do with what I said.
Minato is faster, has Sage Mode, has sealing techniques of the Uzumaki. In a battle of speedsters, like Minato and Tobirama are, being faster would be the deciding factor. Not to mention Minato at least has rasengan to deal damage. Tobirama legit has nothing. Only the praise of being a good suiton user which we never saw lol. Chained Tags don't really work when Minato can teleport away and like I said they require prep.
Madara and Hashirama are head and shoulders above their brothers. Yeah Tobirama beat Izuna, but Minato defacto beat a Madara trained Obito with probably the most haxxed MS in the verse and with Obito having knowledge on Minato but Minato having zero. And he managed to stop the Kyuubi too.
We still didn't see Prime Professor Hiruzen, the one called the God of Shinobi. Nevertheless, Hiruzen was also stronger and more talented than Tobi per the databooks all the way from his childhood.
That's Madara goading Tobirama. That's why he's saying used to. At one point in time Tobirama was the fastest, but not anymore. We have it from the horse's own mouth lol.
If you want praise from Madara how about that his entire plan hinged on Minato being away in order to sway Obito to his side.
Been a while since I read a Naruto chapter(I consider Boruto to be filler), but this One Shot was surprisingly good.
More development around Minato, Kushina and the Uzumaki's in general. The inspiration to create the rasengan was neat.
Also that hype "Shinobi of the caliber of the 1st Hokage" as a teen
, with Oda emphasizing his genius, creativity, ability to keep improving.
Makes you really wonder how strong he'd have been if he reached his prime. We know he'd have improved the Rasengan, master SM even better, probably more creative sealing or FTG techniques, potentially stronger Jutsus as well, an even bigger monster than he already was
More development around Minato, Kushina and the Uzumaki's in general. The inspiration to create the rasengan was neat.
Also that hype "Shinobi of the caliber of the 1st Hokage" as a teen
, with Oda emphasizing his genius, creativity, ability to keep improving.Makes you really wonder how strong he'd have been if he reached his prime. We know he'd have improved the Rasengan, master SM even better, probably more creative sealing or FTG techniques, potentially stronger Jutsus as well, an even bigger monster than he already was
Been a while since I read a Naruto chapter(I consider Boruto to be filler), but this One Shot was surprisingly good.
More development around Minato, Kushina and the Uzumaki's in general. The inspiration to create the rasengan was neat.
Also that hype "Shinobi of the caliber of the 1st Hokage" as a teen, with Oda emphasizing his genius, creativity, ability to keep improving.
Makes you really wonder how strong he'd have been if he reached his prime. We know he'd have improved the Rasengan, master SM even better, probably more creative sealing or FTG techniques, potentially stronger Jutsus as well, an even bigger monster than he already was
More development around Minato, Kushina and the Uzumaki's in general. The inspiration to create the rasengan was neat.
Also that hype "Shinobi of the caliber of the 1st Hokage" as a teen
, with Oda emphasizing his genius, creativity, ability to keep improving.Makes you really wonder how strong he'd have been if he reached his prime. We know he'd have improved the Rasengan, master SM even better, probably more creative sealing or FTG techniques, potentially stronger Jutsus as well, an even bigger monster than he already was
Nah too lazy to.
The same Minato couldn't even react fast enough to save Naruto and Sasuke when he teleported a Juubito truthseeker orb next to the boys and then Tobirama had to teleport in, faster then anyone could react, and return it back to Obito before it could kill them or remove Minato. I guess that is Minato's "superior speed" at work.
Minato can't use Sage Mode in life, he was only able to access it as an Edo Tensei summon as well. So its a moot point and irrelevant if you matched the two head to head in a direct fight when both are at their prime in life. Minato also failed and lost his arm against one of Juubito's attacks while Tobirama had no problem dodging it in base.
See above. Minato never had access to Sage Mode when alive. Its irrelevant.
Sage Mode isn't something Minato has access to when alive, I cannot stress this enough. The circumstances of the War Arc and the connection to Naruto with the Kyuubi are external factors that let him use it when revived. Its not a standard or normal ability he has ever had when he was alive before he died. Its not normal equipment or a ninjutsu ability or whatever that is standard fare for him in a battle.
In a battle if the two were alive and went head to head:
- Minato does not have Sage Mode
- Tobirama has access to all five nature element releases as well as mastery over both ying and yang chakra you are conflating him being noted as being SPECIFICALLY a high level Suiton/Water release master
- Tobirama is noted as being the best sensor-type of all the Hokags
- Minato has no counter to the exploding infinite exploding tags
- Minato's chakra reserves and stamina are remarkadly inferior to Tobirama's as he was being amped by Sage Mode and Kyuubi/Kurama and in normal mode does not have the reserves to spam Kage Bunshins like Tobirama was using while utilizing FTG
- You bring up seals, which is irrelevant because they are not usable in battle and Tobirama is not going to be a stationary target nor has Minato any feats or showings that indicate he'd be able to "seal" Tobirama in a battle who can also utilize FTG; both Sarutobi and Minato used the Death God's seal against targets that were incapitated and immobilized
- Tobirama is an expert kenjutsu/swordsman
- Minato being an Uzumaki descendant has high chakra levels beyond the norm but Tobirama being a Senju has ever greater chakra levels and better stamina
Not really no. At least not until Madara evolved EMS with Izuna's death. But just releasing Tobirama's chakra was enough to shake the building and frighten Orochimaru and Sasuke with his killing intent until Hashirama restrained him with a chide, meanwhile neither Sarutobi nor Minato could break free of the spell. Also the Sasuke that was fearing Tobirama's bloodlust?
That was Sasuke with the attained EMS after his fight with Itachi. So...it wouldn't be unfair to say that Sauce was >= Izuna with regular MS too.
There is really zero indication of this. Tobirama has decades of fighting skilled Sharingan and MS Sharingan users and there's nothing indicating or hyping up as young Obito under Madara being remotely close to Izuna's level at all.
The second databook that states this was released years before Part 2 started or especially the end of Naruto in Part 2. The first two Hokages absolutely shit on Sandaime. Not only was Hashirama called the original God of Shinobi after the Sage of Six Paths who first got that title, but he was explicitly stated to be the strongest ninja in history and Madara's own fame to rival him came because he continued to engage Hashirama who uncontested as the strongest.
The retcon firmly puts Sarutobi distantly between the First, Second, and Fourth in all aspects (save I guess knowing counters to all the ninjutusus he encountered). You can have Sarutobi called the God of Shinobi and The Professor but it doesn't change anything much because end of the day we have Part 2 solidly puts both the Senju Brothers god tiers above him.
No, its not. Madara specifically was comparing himself against Tobirama over explicitly contrasting with Hashirama and the other Hokages.
This doesn't make any sense.
Anyway back on the "speed argument:
Not sure how you are making this claim since Tobirama proved he was faster than Minato when they were fighting Obito. Remember Minato accidentally brought the truthseeker orb with him due to FTG next to Naruto & Sasuke. Then Tobirama has to teleport in to save everyone by teleporting it back to Obito before Minato could?
Best way to rationalize it is like this:
- Minato has edge in raw speed utilizing FTG
- Tobirama is *much* more creative with and utilizes it far better then Minato does including again having the ability to overwrite Minato's own summon seals on his kunais which bewilded Minato when seeing Tobirama doing so; we've seen Tobirama teleport away attacks from Sage Mode Obito and the Ten-Tails, move entire groups of people, etc...in ways that Minato never replicated
Almost everything else is in Tobirama's favor and he's also noted to be genius as far as battle-tactics and strategy goes even compared to Minato, Hashirama, and Sarutobi
The same Minato couldn't even react fast enough to save Naruto and Sasuke when he teleported a Juubito truthseeker orb next to the boys and then Tobirama had to teleport in, faster then anyone could react, and return it back to Obito before it could kill them or remove Minato. I guess that is Minato's "superior speed" at work.
Minato can't use Sage Mode in life, he was only able to access it as an Edo Tensei summon as well. So its a moot point and irrelevant if you matched the two head to head in a direct fight when both are at their prime in life. Minato also failed and lost his arm against one of Juubito's attacks while Tobirama had no problem dodging it in base.
See above. Minato never had access to Sage Mode when alive. Its irrelevant.
Sage Mode isn't something Minato has access to when alive, I cannot stress this enough. The circumstances of the War Arc and the connection to Naruto with the Kyuubi are external factors that let him use it when revived. Its not a standard or normal ability he has ever had when he was alive before he died. Its not normal equipment or a ninjutsu ability or whatever that is standard fare for him in a battle.
In a battle if the two were alive and went head to head:
- Minato does not have Sage Mode
- Tobirama has access to all five nature element releases as well as mastery over both ying and yang chakra you are conflating him being noted as being SPECIFICALLY a high level Suiton/Water release master
- Tobirama is noted as being the best sensor-type of all the Hokags
- Minato has no counter to the exploding infinite exploding tags
- Minato's chakra reserves and stamina are remarkadly inferior to Tobirama's as he was being amped by Sage Mode and Kyuubi/Kurama and in normal mode does not have the reserves to spam Kage Bunshins like Tobirama was using while utilizing FTG
- You bring up seals, which is irrelevant because they are not usable in battle and Tobirama is not going to be a stationary target nor has Minato any feats or showings that indicate he'd be able to "seal" Tobirama in a battle who can also utilize FTG; both Sarutobi and Minato used the Death God's seal against targets that were incapitated and immobilized
- Tobirama is an expert kenjutsu/swordsman
- Minato being an Uzumaki descendant has high chakra levels beyond the norm but Tobirama being a Senju has ever greater chakra levels and better stamina
Not really no. At least not until Madara evolved EMS with Izuna's death. But just releasing Tobirama's chakra was enough to shake the building and frighten Orochimaru and Sasuke with his killing intent until Hashirama restrained him with a chide, meanwhile neither Sarutobi nor Minato could break free of the spell. Also the Sasuke that was fearing Tobirama's bloodlust?
That was Sasuke with the attained EMS after his fight with Itachi. So...it wouldn't be unfair to say that Sauce was >= Izuna with regular MS too.
There is really zero indication of this. Tobirama has decades of fighting skilled Sharingan and MS Sharingan users and there's nothing indicating or hyping up as young Obito under Madara being remotely close to Izuna's level at all.
The second databook that states this was released years before Part 2 started or especially the end of Naruto in Part 2. The first two Hokages absolutely shit on Sandaime. Not only was Hashirama called the original God of Shinobi after the Sage of Six Paths who first got that title, but he was explicitly stated to be the strongest ninja in history and Madara's own fame to rival him came because he continued to engage Hashirama who uncontested as the strongest.
The retcon firmly puts Sarutobi distantly between the First, Second, and Fourth in all aspects (save I guess knowing counters to all the ninjutusus he encountered). You can have Sarutobi called the God of Shinobi and The Professor but it doesn't change anything much because end of the day we have Part 2 solidly puts both the Senju Brothers god tiers above him.
No, its not. Madara specifically was comparing himself against Tobirama over explicitly contrasting with Hashirama and the other Hokages.
This doesn't make any sense.
Anyway back on the "speed argument:
Not sure how you are making this claim since Tobirama proved he was faster than Minato when they were fighting Obito. Remember Minato accidentally brought the truthseeker orb with him due to FTG next to Naruto & Sasuke. Then Tobirama has to teleport in to save everyone by teleporting it back to Obito before Minato could?
Best way to rationalize it is like this:
- Minato has edge in raw speed utilizing FTG
- Tobirama is *much* more creative with and utilizes it far better then Minato does including again having the ability to overwrite Minato's own summon seals on his kunais which bewilded Minato when seeing Tobirama doing so; we've seen Tobirama teleport away attacks from Sage Mode Obito and the Ten-Tails, move entire groups of people, etc...in ways that Minato never replicated
Almost everything else is in Tobirama's favor and he's also noted to be genius as far as battle-tactics and strategy goes even compared to Minato, Hashirama, and Sarutobi
And Tobirama was able to direct engage Madara in a fight, still switch a kunai in the middle of a close-quarters melee fight, and teleport about while engaging him, he still has other feats things like moving entire groups of people. Something Minato never did or managed to show at all.
Cope Tobirama and Hiruzen stans
are we just making shit up now? Tobirama literally says Minato has a better teleportation technique
Minato never teleported entire groups of people or several people performing attacks to switch places with others with FTG. Like I said before, Minato has a slight edge in speed with FTG, Tobirama however has better utility and creativity with it.
Cope Tobirama and Hiruzen stans
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are we just making shit up now? Tobirama literally says Minato has a better teleportation technique
I'll treat this as you conceding it then.
We have it from the horse's own mouth. An outlier here or there does not change that. There was a moment where an old Hiruzen reacted before anyone else lol, doesn't mean he was suddenly faster than Tobirama.
Not to mention that Minato was fighting Juubito head on while Tobi was watching from the sides. A Juubito with no control of his mind blitzed Tobirama and Hashi iirc too.
Nothing to do with what I said. Let's not strawman.
Again has nothing do with my point. I said by knowing Sage Mode we know Minato has great reserves.
Minato has access to SM except it takes him too long to knead chakra, so he doesn't use it because he finishes his opponents in a blink. Theoretically, he could use his summons like Ma and Pa and have them knead chakra like they did for Jiraiya.
Which we've never seen. And it wasn't indicated it was anything too special otherwise he would have used them.
Post the panel.
If you're talking about him sensing strong chakra from a far, Minato did the same.
Teleportation is a way out of this. And as we've established Tobirama would require ET for that and prep, so it has no bearing on this.
I've stated that Minato has high chakra reserves. And even if we were to give him it to Tobirama, which I am not even opposing that much, he is slower with FTG still, which is the what will decide the outcome of the battle. It's why Minato beat Obito and why Madara beat Tobirama who tried to blindside him.
Sealing can be used in battle. As we've seen.
Never said he isn't.
Minato is a Namikaze not an Uzumaki.
As far as the battle goes
> Minato is faster
> Minato has the edge in destructive capacity at close with the rasengan
> Minato can teleport further and has greater versatility with it
> Is better at defense with his barriers
> Has better summons
> Can very briefly use SM and could in theory be able to use it even longer with the summons
Yes they were lol. They are both reincarnations of Asura and Indra, they were always ahead of their younger brothers.
That's his chakra potency correct. And they were surprised lol. Not in fear of their lives. They'd fight him if they had to.
And Orochimaru restrained Tobirama shortly thereafter
Yeah like I said they'd still fight them. They weren't gonna roll over and let him kill them. They got surprised at the moment and then Orochimaru restrained him again.
The Masked Man that has Kamui, all the knowledge on Minato, can control the Kyuubi, is not strong? He has the most hax MS in the verse, bar maybe Shisui lol.
That's all good but that's not the it. This was from a newer databook.
My dude, you what it means you who used to be the fastest, right? It's clearly Madara goading Tobirama for no longer even being that.
What makes no sense? Madara word for word said he waited until Minato was off on another mission to kickstart his Rin kidnapping plan which was what led to Obito truly taking his side.
Talked about it above.
You're mixing things up. Minato is the one that has more versatility with FTG than Tobirama.
We have it from the horse's own mouth. An outlier here or there does not change that. There was a moment where an old Hiruzen reacted before anyone else lol, doesn't mean he was suddenly faster than Tobirama.
Nothing to do with what I said. Let's not strawman.
Again has nothing do with my point. I said by knowing Sage Mode we know Minato has great reserves.
Minato has access to SM except it takes him too long to knead chakra, so he doesn't use it because he finishes his opponents in a blink. Theoretically, he could use his summons like Ma and Pa and have them knead chakra like they did for Jiraiya.
Which we've never seen. And it wasn't indicated it was anything too special otherwise he would have used them.
Post the panel.
If you're talking about him sensing strong chakra from a far, Minato did the same.
Teleportation is a way out of this. And as we've established Tobirama would require ET for that and prep, so it has no bearing on this.
I've stated that Minato has high chakra reserves. And even if we were to give him it to Tobirama, which I am not even opposing that much, he is slower with FTG still, which is the what will decide the outcome of the battle. It's why Minato beat Obito and why Madara beat Tobirama who tried to blindside him.
Sealing can be used in battle. As we've seen.
Never said he isn't.
Minato is a Namikaze not an Uzumaki.
As far as the battle goes
> Minato is faster
> Minato has the edge in destructive capacity at close with the rasengan
> Minato can teleport further and has greater versatility with it
> Is better at defense with his barriers
> Has better summons
> Can very briefly use SM and could in theory be able to use it even longer with the summons
Yes they were lol. They are both reincarnations of Asura and Indra, they were always ahead of their younger brothers.
That's his chakra potency correct. And they were surprised lol. Not in fear of their lives. They'd fight him if they had to.
And Orochimaru restrained Tobirama shortly thereafter
Yeah like I said they'd still fight them. They weren't gonna roll over and let him kill them. They got surprised at the moment and then Orochimaru restrained him again.
The Masked Man that has Kamui, all the knowledge on Minato, can control the Kyuubi, is not strong? He has the most hax MS in the verse, bar maybe Shisui lol.
That's all good but that's not the it. This was from a newer databook.
My dude, you what it means you who used to be the fastest, right? It's clearly Madara goading Tobirama for no longer even being that.
What makes no sense? Madara word for word said he waited until Minato was off on another mission to kickstart his Rin kidnapping plan which was what led to Obito truly taking his side.
Talked about it above.
You're mixing things up. Minato is the one that has more versatility with FTG than Tobirama.
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He did not do anything against Madara. Bro tried to blindside him and got countered in a flash. He only teleported away from the attack that Marada used immediately after countering Tobirama. This Madara is weaker than Jubito, mind you. Bro, Minato legit teleported the entire Shinobi alliance. An FTG comparison b/w them is not even up for debate.
