General & Others No, Kaidou wasn't KOed by Oden and the Scabbards, nor was he hurt by Momo, the Scabbards, etc.

#1
Title. I'll just be explaining the gap in pages between them hitting him and him getting up for the most part, nothing too elaborate or lengthy.


See here, he gets up literally one page after Oden slices him.
In the time it took for him to get up, all that happened is Oden ran at him then turned around, which at most took 10 seconds.
So at the very most he could have been KOed, but only for some seconds.
Something similar happens against the Scabbards:


Now this one's a little weirder, because it's a whole chapter after they hit him.
However, this makes much more sense when you remember that all of the chapter up until this page was focused on what was happening downstairs and didn't show anything related to the battle between the Scabbards and Kaidou.
Considering that Kaidou started speaking in the second to last panel of this page, and this is the first page we see of the fight after they hit him, this means that he was also out for only one page (or again, at most 10 seconds) from their attack.
Do I know if he was really KOed, or stunned, or just fell over? No, but my point is that if he, hypothetically, really were KOed, then it'd only be for a few seconds.
Another thing I want to discuss is the argument that "Kaidou screamed/fell so he was hurt/damaged by X character"
For example, this page:

The thing I never got about this is that there was clearly 0 drops of blood or bruises after these attacks.
Almost every single time we saw Kaidou scream from basically any attack that wasn't from Luffy, it didn't even make him bleed or keep him down for more than two panels.
As for Kaidou falling after the attacks, this doesn't really mean much. We even see Jack do the same after getting his tusk sliced off by a Sulong Mink, but he still talks and everything in the exact same page.

And this is the entire point of my thread. Kaidou screaming, falling, groaning, etc. from certain attacks doesn't exactly indicate that they KOed him or even damaged him.
So when ever people bring that up as a counterpoint to Kaidou having great durability/endurance, just remember what I'm saying.
Any thoughts/additions to my post? @MonsterKaido @Sasaki Kojirō
 
#2
Title. I'll just be explaining the gap in pages between them hitting him and him getting up for the most part, nothing too elaborate or lengthy.


See here, he gets up literally one page after Oden slices him.
In the time it took for him to get up, all that happened is Oden ran at him then turned around, which at most took 10 seconds.
So at the very most he could have been KOed, but only for some seconds.
Something similar happens against the Scabbards:


Now this one's a little weirder, because it's a whole chapter after they hit him.
However, this makes much more sense when you remember that all of the chapter up until this page was focused on what was happening downstairs and didn't show anything related to the battle between the Scabbards and Kaidou.
Considering that Kaidou started speaking in the second to last panel of this page, and this is the first page we see of the fight after they hit him, this means that he was also out for only one page (or again, at most 10 seconds) from their attack.
Do I know if he was really KOed, or stunned, or just fell over? No, but my point is that if he, hypothetically, really were KOed, then it'd only be for a few seconds.
Another thing I want to discuss is the argument that "Kaidou screamed/fell so he was hurt/damaged by X character"
For example, this page:

The thing I never got about this is that there was clearly 0 drops of blood or bruises after these attacks.
Almost every single time we saw Kaidou scream from basically any attack that wasn't from Luffy, it didn't even make him bleed or keep him down for more than two panels.
As for Kaidou falling after the attacks, this doesn't really mean much. We even see Jack do the same after getting his tusk sliced off by a Sulong Mink, but he still talks and everything in the exact same page.

And this is the entire point of my thread. Kaidou screaming, falling, groaning, etc. from certain attacks doesn't exactly indicate that they KOed him or even damaged him.
So when ever people bring that up as a counterpoint to Kaidou having great durability/endurance, just remember what I'm saying.
Any thoughts/additions to my post? @MonsterKaido @Sasaki Kojirō
Can't you shorten it?
 

WalnutTax

A man, my son 🌊
‎‎‎
#3
Controversial take: Oda did the Oden vs Kaido fight so dirty in chapter 970 that we had to wait until the anime to get more context and a better version.
"So at the very most he could have been KOed, but only for some seconds."

"Do I know if he was really KOed, or stunned, or just fell over? No, but my point is that if he, hypothetically, really were KOed, then it'd only be for a few seconds."

"And this is the entire point of my thread. Kaidou screaming, falling, groaning, etc. from certain attacks doesn't exactly indicate that they KOed him or even damaged him."
Is this why he never bothered to give Kaido awakening? Is it because Kaido's mindset and worldview didn't align with the guardian diety nature of the fruit? Do Zoan awakenings require your mindset to be in tune/alignment with the devil inside the fruit? What if Momo gets to achieve what Kaido could not?


:usosmug:
 
#4
Controversial take: Oda did the Oden vs Kaido fight so dirty in chapter 970 that we had to wait until the anime to get more context and a better version.


Is this why he never bothered to give Kaido awakening? Is it because Kaido's mindset and worldview didn't align with the guardian diety nature of the fruit? Do Zoan awakenings require your mindset to be in tune/alignment with the devil inside the fruit? What if Momo gets to achieve what Kaido could not?


:usosmug:
Bro y u gotta give long ass answers?
 
#5
Can't you shorten it?

Controversial take: Oda did the Oden vs Kaido fight so dirty in chapter 970 that we had to wait until the anime to get more context and a better version.


Is this why he never bothered to give Kaido awakening? Is it because Kaido's mindset and worldview didn't align with the guardian diety nature of the fruit? Do Zoan awakenings require your mindset to be in tune/alignment with the devil inside the fruit? What if Momo gets to achieve what Kaido could not?


:usosmug:
The Azure Dragon is a benevolent being iirc, and Kaidou is ridiculously evil, so I can see him not being awakened due to having the opposite personality/mindset of his fruit.
 
#7
This is a damage control/rebuttal thread after you guys spent months claiming "Kizaru got one-shot by Gear 5" when all WSG did was put Kizaru out of action temporarily.

Kaidou (obviously) wasn't knocked out until Bajrung Gun & Kizaru was -atbest- temporarily knocked out by White Star Gun.
Thing is Kizaru was obviously still conscious.
Nobody seriously argued that he was KOed by it, but he was obviously paralyzed by it.
And that's the difference. Kizaru outright admitted he couldn't move for a few minutes, while Kaidou was basically fine.
 

ConquistadoR

The Rogue Prince
#8
Thing is Kizaru was obviously still conscious.
Nobody seriously argued that he was KOed by it, but he was obviously paralyzed by it.
And that's the difference. Kizaru outright admitted he couldn't move for a few minutes, while Kaidou was basically fine.
Yes, Kizaru was paralyzed for a while. No debating that.
It's just two bad faith arguments against each other.

Point is, he hasn't been put down for good yet. And yes, same applies to Kaidou - who took attacks from almost everyone in Onigashima and then took an Island-sized CoC KKG to be put down for good.
 
#10
Yes, Kizaru was paralyzed for a while. No debating that.
It's just two bad faith arguments against each other.

Point is, he hasn't been put down for good yet. And yes, same applies to Kaidou - who took attacks from almost everyone in Onigashima and then took an Island-sized CoC KKG to be put down for good.
My point is that they're different scenarios.
I can understand comparing them if we saw Kaidou struggle to get up immediately and/or even say he's struggling to get up, but that never happened.
Hell, we even see Hybrid Kaidou get hit by Ashura and not even be close to passing out, and Hybrid Kaidou < Zoan Kaidou in durability and what not.
Post automatically merged:

While I agree that Kaido was never koed, but saying he was never hurt is just bs.

So Kaido just screamed in pain for the fun of it? Momo and the Scabbards did hurt Kaido.

@EmperorKinyagi @Elder Lee Hung @MarineHQ
Thoughts? I personally don't understand how someone can look at Kaido getting hurt and screaming in pain, and then just say "Oh Kaido was never hurt."
It's him simply being dramatic.
Like I said, we also don't even see him bleed or get bruises from most of these attacks.
It sounds like he should be hurt/damaged, but there's no indication outside of him yelling that he is.
 
#11
I have thought a lot about this and even made a small thread here about how oden's attack was exaggerated --

https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/the-over-exaggeration-of-odens-attack.23126/

Had Kaido been in his hybrid form , he wouldn't have fallen as even scabbard's attack made dragon Kaido fall which didn't even open his old wound where as Zoro's attack which scarred him didn't made Hybrid Kaido fall.

That being said you can argue the narrative of the fight was that Kaido may have lost against oden in direct fight. But its not supported by feats.
 

ConquistadoR

The Rogue Prince
#12
My point is that they're different scenarios.
I can understand comparing them if we saw Kaidou struggle to get up immediately and/or even say he's struggling to get up, but that never happened.
Hell, we even see Hybrid Kaidou get hit by Ashura and not even be close to passing out, and Hybrid Kaidou < Zoan Kaidou in durability and what not.
Don't look for meaning behind agenda-fuelled arguments. Admiral stans only compared that scene to this, because you guys were claiming that WSG one-shot Kizaru. :kayneshrug:

This thread itself is unnecessary because everybody and their mothers know for a fact that Kaidou wasn't K/O'd until Gear 5 and the same applies to Kizaru until he is put down for good.
 
#14
Title. I'll just be explaining the gap in pages between them hitting him and him getting up for the most part, nothing too elaborate or lengthy.


See here, he gets up literally one page after Oden slices him.
In the time it took for him to get up, all that happened is Oden ran at him then turned around, which at most took 10 seconds.
So at the very most he could have been KOed, but only for some seconds.
Something similar happens against the Scabbards:


Now this one's a little weirder, because it's a whole chapter after they hit him.
However, this makes much more sense when you remember that all of the chapter up until this page was focused on what was happening downstairs and didn't show anything related to the battle between the Scabbards and Kaidou.
Considering that Kaidou started speaking in the second to last panel of this page, and this is the first page we see of the fight after they hit him, this means that he was also out for only one page (or again, at most 10 seconds) from their attack.
Do I know if he was really KOed, or stunned, or just fell over? No, but my point is that if he, hypothetically, really were KOed, then it'd only be for a few seconds.
Another thing I want to discuss is the argument that "Kaidou screamed/fell so he was hurt/damaged by X character"
For example, this page:

The thing I never got about this is that there was clearly 0 drops of blood or bruises after these attacks.
Almost every single time we saw Kaidou scream from basically any attack that wasn't from Luffy, it didn't even make him bleed or keep him down for more than two panels.
As for Kaidou falling after the attacks, this doesn't really mean much. We even see Jack do the same after getting his tusk sliced off by a Sulong Mink, but he still talks and everything in the exact same page.

And this is the entire point of my thread. Kaidou screaming, falling, groaning, etc. from certain attacks doesn't exactly indicate that they KOed him or even damaged him.
So when ever people bring that up as a counterpoint to Kaidou having great durability/endurance, just remember what I'm saying.
Any thoughts/additions to my post? @MonsterKaido @Sasaki Kojirō
Oden clearly would have sliced Kaido’s neck if the hag didn’t distract him
 

Elder Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
#15
While I agree that Kaido was never koed, but saying he was never hurt is just bs.

So Kaido just screamed in pain for the fun of it? Momo and the Scabbards did hurt Kaido.

@EmperorKinyagi @Elder Lee Hung @MarineHQ
Thoughts? I personally don't understand how someone can look at Kaido getting hurt and screaming in pain, and then just say "Oh Kaido was never hurt."
Against Oden the damage is over exaggerated. People who act like Oden almost killed him are just wrong lol. It hurt him a lot but he wasn’t almost killed or anything.

Against the scabbards, yeah bro was unconscious lol. People really don’t understand what defeat means in OP. Falling unconscious for 5 minutes is not a defeat. Major defeats like Doffy and Lucci were defeats where these guys were down for days/a week, tapping out with a minor injury for 5 minutes is not a defeat lol, don’t know why people have to pretend like the scabbards didn’t have Kaido out on the ground lol. They weren’t going to be able to kill him.

Ultimately Oda is just not a very good artist I’m sorry to say. Kaido’s wounds the scabbards and Zoro gave him just disappeared even though Kaido said Zoro would leave a scar. Yet no scar was left. Oda really is just not good at drawing anymore. Like art is subjective but Oda’s art fails to communicate the things Oda wants to communicate. Objectively he is a failure as a manga artist.
 
H

Herrera95

#18
L thread

Kaido was knocked out for a few seconds just like Apoo knocked out Luffy at the beginning of Onigashima.

Momo did hurt Kaido with a bite that's why he is screaming. Hell Kaido didn't even screamed by Luffy's G4 attacks at act 1.
 
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