Character Discussion Oda had to exclude Zoro from WCI because he was too strong

Seth

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Obviously. This shouldn't be a surprise.

Zoro's appearance on WCI means he would take over the fight with Katakuri and tell Luffy to go further or shit.
 
drake switched sides
didnt go up
Doesn't really change my point because I'm not denying that strength plays its part but stating it isn't the main factor.

apoo a captain didnt go up
Villain.

hawkins same didnt go up
Villain.

the reason zoro is there is because he has an arc full of build up to go fight kaido.
This wouldn't even be a strength-based argument either and could be seen as the consequence of my take on the events.

no they dont get boosts from island to island if they dont fight
not one of them got stronger from dressrosa to zou just because they sailed around
First of all, they probably spend time training. Second, this is a story based on constant growth, of course the characters grow naturally stronger as story progresses. Third, I don't have the time to look it up, but I recall Zoro stated they indeed grow stronger just like that at some point pretimeskip.

that sword is a non factor here
It is a factor because without it he's significantly weaker, let's not say Dressrosa Zoro without it.

he got that sword to fight 2 yonko
doflamingo is a bug to said yonko
Zoro wasn't as strong as now nor had Enma in Dressrosa, so...?

to say he went from weaker to doflamingo to be able to do what hes done/will do on the roof just to a sword when the level needed to beat doffy is tiers below
He did, because he has grown stronger from Dressrosa, he got an abnormal sword, and he trained with it before the last battle.

no their first encounter ended after zoro was caught unaware with fujis gravity yet still with 1 sword over powered it and sent fuji flying back
And Zoro still suffered way more from his unawareness than Fujitora from his own (he was surprised too).

then they had a second clash where zoro used 2 swords
And Fujitora was clearly serious there, just like he was against Sabo.

then after seeing fujis raging tiger send luffy flying he wanted to fight him a 3rd time
And? Wanting to do something is a statement of achievement?

theres nothing unfavorable there for zoro
There is, because the only time they actually exchanged "techniques", both of them unexpected, Zoro ended up huffing and bleeding while Fujitora was completely fine.
 
Nope,look what fire power the alliance has while facing just one yonkou crew.He would just get overwhelmed by large number of weaker kids,just like everybody else,the numbers are very important in OP.
 
Obviously. This shouldn't be a surprise.

Zoro's appearance on WCI means he would take over the fight with Katakuri and tell Luffy to go further or shit.
Not in the slightest. None of them could face Big Mom and Luffy wanted to take on Katakuri to prove himself and grow. Zoro would be a non-factor and probably end up with a secondary enemy, as usual, if he even did instead of just escaping like the rest with short skirmishes in the process.
 

Seth

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Not in the slightest. None of them could face Big Mom and Luffy wanted to take on Katakuri to prove himself and grow. Zoro would be a non-factor and probably end up with a secondary enemy, as usual, if he even did instead of just escaping like the rest with short skirmishes in the process.
That's the reason he wasn't on WCI so Luffy can take on YC1 because he would jobb to Big Mom.
 
Doesn't really change my point because I'm not denying that strength plays its part but stating it isn't the main factor.



Villain.



Villain.



This wouldn't even be a strength-based argument either and could be seen as the consequence of my take on the events.



First of all, they probably spend time training. Second, this is a story based on constant growth, of course the characters grow naturally stronger as story progresses. Third, I don't have the time to look it up, but I recall Zoro stated they indeed grow stronger just like that at some point pretimeskip.



It is a factor because without it he's significantly weaker, let's not say Dressrosa Zoro without it.



Zoro wasn't as strong as now nor had Enma in Dressrosa, so...?



He did, because he has grown stronger from Dressrosa, he got an abnormal sword, and he trained with it before the last battle.



And Zoro still suffered way more from his unawareness than Fujitora from his own (he was surprised too).



And Fujitora was clearly serious there, just like he was against Sabo.



And? Wanting to do something is a statement of achievement?



There is, because the only time they actually exchanged "techniques", both of them unexpected, Zoro ended up huffing and bleeding while Fujitora was completely fine.
This is retarded

are you saying he grew from weaker than doffy which is not even neg diff fir a yonko to far above doffy to do what hes doing to 2 yonko just because he trained for 5 days with a sword that only gave him higher ap and better haki control ?

Yes yes it does hes seen what fuji can do knows his rank has fought him and still wanted to fight him.
 
That's the reason he wasn't on WCI so Luffy can take on YC1 because he would jobb to Big Mom.
Sure, that's the reason. Zoro's pressence would have turned Whole Cake into a confrontation arc ending with the Big Mom Pirates defeated.

This is retarded

are you saying he grew from weaker than doffy which is not even neg diff fir a yonko to far above doffy to do what hes doing to 2 yonko just because he trained for 5 days with a sword that only gave him higher ap and better haki control ?

Yes yes it does hes seen what fuji can do knows his rank has fought him and still wanted to fight him.
I'm saying that characters grow naturally as the story progresses, that Dressrosa happened close to a decade ago and that, on top of that, he received a sword that has been highlighted as abnormal by the emperors and got to train with it. Law didn't perform much better against Doflamingo and exhausted all his resources while trying to take him down (and didn't even make him use awakening), yet here he is, facing the emperors in a teamfight. Why does this sound so alien to you?

He never saw what Fujitora can do but one named technique that possibly isn't even among the strongest. Fujitora was playing throughout Dressrosa, even Sabo noticed that.
 

Finalbeta

Oda's accuser
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facts suggest that zoro has been fighting maggot in post time skip, and had his worst fight in his career in wano, you're make zoro look bad... stop it
Fujitora and Kaido are maggots now.



That's you to make Zoro look bad.

The truth is that Zoro managed to overcome Issho's gravitational force without relying on Asura, pretty simple. But what's the most impressive is that he still didn't rely on it against Kaido.
 

Seth

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Sure, that's the reason. Zoro's pressence would have turned Whole Cake into a confrontation arc ending with the Big Mom Pirates defeated.
Ha ha ha and we all laughed.

All I'm saying is that Zoro on WCI = more firepower for Straw Hats.

Zoro would easily beat Cracker or Smoothie. Katakuri would be a harder fight, still probably Luffy would take on him since Big Mom would rape Luffy.
 
Ha ha ha and we all laughed.

All I'm saying is that Zoro on WCI = more firepower for Straw Hats.

Zoro would easily beat Cracker or Smoothie. Katakuri would be a harder fight, still probably Luffy would take on him since Big Mom would rape Luffy.
Then I understood you wrong, but this is still a stretch and I personally doubt he would "easily beat" any of Linlin's commanders back then if Luffy was meant for Katakuri. If Katakuri was Luffy's Doflamingo, Lucci or Crocodile, Zoro would have probably taken on a Pica, a Kaku or a Bonez.
 
Sure, that's the reason. Zoro's pressence would have turned Whole Cake into a confrontation arc ending with the Big Mom Pirates defeated.



I'm saying that characters grow naturally as the story progresses, that Dressrosa happened close to a decade ago and that, on top of that, he received a sword that has been highlighted as abnormal by the emperors and got to train with it. Law didn't perform much better against Doflamingo and exhausted all his resources while trying to take him down (and didn't even make him use awakening), yet here he is, facing the emperors in a teamfight. Why does this sound so alien to you?

He never saw what Fujitora can do. Fujitora was playing throughout Dressrosa, even Sabo noticed that.
law isnt doing the things zoro is
law is just support
moving people and things around
his counter shock didnt work
his gamma knife didnt work
his room doesnt even work on the yonko
hes done nothing in this fight yet dressrosa law couldnt do

no they dont grow for no reason

no strawhat grew from dressrosa to zou
the ones who went straight to wano didnt grow from zou to wano

again theres a world of difference between being weaker than fucking doflamingo and being able to do what zoro is and will be doing against yonko
 

Seth

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Then I understood you wrong, but this is still a stretch and I personally doubt he would "easily beat" any of Linlin's commanders back then if Luffy was meant for Katakuri. If Katakuri was Luffy's Doflamingo, Lucci or Crocodile, Zoro would have probably taken on a Pica, a Kaku or a Bonez.
Cracker would be a lot easier for Zoro because of Boat.

Luffy struggled with Cracker because Oda is just retarded writer and he forgets what his characters can do. Addition of Nami in that fight was a fucking joke and it make Luffy look like a dumbass.

Smoothie... Man. Be serious. Does anyone even take her seriously?
 
Fujitora and Kaido are maggots now.
He won't dare fight fuji after what fuji did... it wasn't a fight in the first place... zoro clashed with fuji and fujitora subdued him zoro had to exert alot to execute a slash and push fuji.. and kaido isn't really a 1v1.. so i exclude that

Zoro hasn't fought anyone worthy in a 1v1..
and I'm not talking about feats im talking about his opponents... pushing Fuji is a worthy feat and yes he wouldn't just pull ashura but he wasn't an opponent and was shuddered after what fuji did to him plus most of his opponents before wano weren't even worthy enough to witness Ashura.. that is what i meant.. none.. he barely even exerted in a 1v1 so there is no point in saying that he did it without ashura.... ofc he did it coz most of it wad just clapping hid opponent with no difficulty.
 
Cracker would be a lot easier for Zoro because of Boat.
The issue with Cracker isn't just breaking his biscuits but not getting overwhelmed by an army of soldiers. "Breath of things" is a mess of a power that has been retconned in the worst way possible, so allow me to not pay it much attention (I understand what you mean, don't get me wrong, but I don't trust Oda here).

Luffy struggled with Cracker because Oda is just retarded writer and he forgets what his characters can do.
Oh, so with Zoro Oda would be a bright author and remember every set of techniques (even those he screws with retconnings), but with Luffy he's a retarded writer. Maybe this is because he doesn't care as much about "power levels" as some think, or even said power levels don't exist to begin with, and he just writes what the plot and the scenes he wants to write demand...?

Smoothie... Man. Be serious. Does anyone even take her seriously?
Oda had to remind us she's strong because people keep downplaying her as of what her plot demanded, so you tell me.

law isnt doing the things zoro is
law is just support
moving people and things around
his counter shock didnt work
his gamma knife didnt work
his room doesnt even work on the yonko
hes done nothing in this fight yet dressrosa law couldnt do
Law was shown to be able to hurt Kaido as he made him scream, yet Doflamingo took everything he had and it wasn't enough...?

no they dont grow for no reason
They do, you are just assuming there aren't in-verse and out-verse reasons for them to grow even though the very logic of a progressive fighting story supports that they indeed grow (what does Zoro train for, then?). And again, pretty sure Zoro states this.

again theres a world of difference between being weaker than fucking doflamingo and being able to do what zoro is and will be doing against yonko
Not really, it's simply that you're assuming the wrong premises and taking a simplistic approach at Oda's way of building fights. From Dressrosa to Wano it's been almost a decade of publishing time, three arcs of growth and a power up. Going from losing to Doflamingo to what he's doing now is actually reasonable.
 

Seth

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Oda had to remind us she's strong because people keep downplaying her as of what her plot demanded, so you tell me.
and then Wano comes and she looks like the most useless bitch all over again.
Oh, so with Zoro Oda would be a bright author and remember every set of techniques (even those he screws with retconnings), but with Luffy he's a retarded writer. Maybe this is because he doesn't care as much about "power levels" as some think, or even said power levels don't exist to begin with, and he just writes what the plot and the scenes he wants to write demand...?
I guess so? Deffo could see some sort of bullshit like with his fight with Kamazo on Wano but Zoro's fights are often more serious than Luffy's.
 
The issue with Cracker isn't just breaking his biscuits but not getting overwhelmed by an army of soldiers. "Breath of things" is a mess of a power that has been retconned in the worst way possible, so allow me to not pay it much attention (I understand what you mean, don't get me wrong, but I don't trust Oda here).



Oh, so with Zoro Oda would be a bright author and remember every set of techniques (even those he screws with retconnings), but with Luffy he's a retarded writer. Maybe this is because he doesn't care as much about "power levels" as some thing and he just writes what the plot and the scenes he wants to write demand...?



Oda had to remind us she's strong because people keep downplaying her as of what her plot demanded, so you tell me.



Law was shown to be able to hurt Kaido as he made him scream, yet Doflamingo took everything he had and it wasn't enough...?



They do, you are just assuming there aren't in-verse and out-verse reasons for them to grow even though the very logic of a progressive fighting story supports that they indeed grow. And again, pretty sure Zoro states this.



Not really, it's simply that you're assuming the wrong premises and taking a simplistic approach at Oda's way of building fights. From Dressrosa to Wano it's been almost a decade of publishing time, three arcs of growth and a power up. Going from losing to Doflamingo to what he's doing now is actually reasonable.
What the fuck are you on about.

Rocks made kaido scream it means nothing.
Gamma knife did nothing he called it a trick. And he was fine. That move crippled doffy.
Outside of moving others and things laws actual combat arsenal on the actual yonko has been useless.

No they don't grow when they don't fight. When zoro said what he said he was on about their experiences on every island and nearly every island they fight.


Not this is just stupid. How long it's been irl has no bearing on in story when it's been a few weeks to a month max

Having 5 days with a sword doesn't legislate that growth.
 
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