General & Others Oden was a shit leader and deserved to die

[Jew D. Boy]

That's not who Oden is. Basically any leader in this series would've acted like that, when he returned to his homeland.

He wanted to solve the matter alone, since he

A) Had no idea anyone even close to his gigantic power was present in Wano (Kaido).
B) Felt responsible for whatever happened.
C) Never accepted help in private matters (his downfall and his one major difference compared to Luffy). Especially not outsider help, who in his eyes have nothing to do with Wano's problems.

Then his stubbornness is a character flaw that prevents him from being a good leader. Moreover, that IS what Oden is like - he’s clearly doing whatever it takes to protect his country; where he fails is that he’s so headstrong, he doesn’t consider all the options that could help him do so as viable. All the points you made are legit, but it still doesn’t forgive his inaction at crucial moments, and neither do his actions in rampaging against Kaido way too late.

The Yonko even says it himself - things might have gone in Oden’s favor if he hadn’t blindly trusted the word of a known con man in Orochi and gathered the samurai to rebel. Hell, he could have done the whole Idiot Lord bit and fomented the resistance in secret...if the townspeople heard whispers of his true motives, public perception wouldn’t have turned on him so harshly.

Wherever you land on this subject, it’s way too complex for either side to fully encompass all the pros and cons. My problem is a perceived lack of picking one’s battles after Oden returned to Wano...tough choices have to be made, and it seems he did the easiest one with a supposedly high payoff (as long as Orochi actually kept his word, don’t know that we received confirmation of that yet). Then, when he realized it wasn’t the right move, shit was already in motion towards his demise.

 

[dirtyLarry]

Then his stubbornness is a character flaw that prevents him from being a good leader. Moreover, that IS what Oden is like - he’s clearly doing whatever it takes to protect his country; where he fails is that he’s so headstrong, he doesn’t consider all the options that could help him do so as viable. All the points you made are legit, but it still doesn’t forgive his inaction at crucial moments, and neither do his actions in rampaging against Kaido way too late.

The Yonko even says it himself - things might have gone in Oden’s favor if he hadn’t blindly trusted the word of a known con man in Orochi and gathered the samurai to rebel. Hell, he could have done the whole Idiot Lord bit and fomented the resistance in secret...if the townspeople heard whispers of his true motives, public perception wouldn’t have turned on him so harshly.

Wherever you land on this subject, it’s way too complex for either side to fully encompass all the pros and cons. My problem is a perceived lack of picking one’s battles after Oden returned to Wano...tough choices have to be made, and it seems he did the easiest one with a supposedly high payoff (as long as Orochi actually kept his word, don’t know that we received confirmation of that yet). Then, when he realized it wasn’t the right move, shit was already in motion towards his demise.

Well, you perfectly summarized what I've tried to tell everyone all along ;-)
His sense of honor and idea to do everything alone were his obvious character flaws (which Oda highlighted many times btw) that led to his downfall.

 

[Jew D. Boy]

Well, you perfectly summarized what I've tried to tell everyone all along ;-)
His sense of honor and idea to do everything alone were his obvious character flaws (which Oda highlighted many times btw) that led to his downfall.

All right, I couldn’t exactly tell if we matched up on this or not. He’s a good person and a bad leader, both of those things can simultaneously be true.

 

[dirtyLarry]

All right, I couldn’t exactly tell if we matched up on this or not. He’s a good person and a bad leader, both of those things can simultaneously be true.

I would re-phrase it a bit: He's a good person, but a bad leader when he has to deal with shrewd politicians or classical political stuff.
He isn't a bad leader per-se, since he had shown he can work wonders in Kuri. But he can only do the unconventional part of it, which only leads so far.

 

[Dark Hound]

So he should have let 100 peopme die everytime ?

My god this forum is getting worse and worse everytime

 

[Monkey D Theories]

So he should have let 100 peopme die everytime ?

My god this forum is getting worse and worse everytime

yes

 

[MarineHQ]

So he should have let 100 peopme die everytime ?

My god this forum is getting worse and worse everytime

Tell me how many people have died in the 20 years post Oden's death?
What tragedies had the people of Wano go through in Udon, leftover town etc.?

What are a couple hundred deaths in comparison to that WHEN they had the biggest chance to free the country, but Oden rather chose to dance like a retard giving his enemies years to get stronger while he's loosing his potential allies with each passing week.

You're right, this forum holds a bunch of idiots only because they don't praise oda for this shit tier writing

 

[Lion of Olympus]

The Oden damage controlling

 

[Finalbeta]

So he should have let 100 peopme die everytime ?

My god this forum is getting worse and worse everytime

Indeed, no reason why he should have bent himself at that point when he was a kinded heart. That can be described as a quality actually.

Maybe other characters would have preferred sacrificing the people they loved in order to bring down the enemy but Oden wasn't one of them.

 

[Hot T. ea]

While Kaido is at it he should add salt and pepper to the boiling pot. This retard Oden made deals with the same guy that assassinated his father, used the citizens as slaves, almost killed his wife and child when he could have BEATEN them 5 years ago. I get the point of his character being foolish, but holy shit this is taking it to a new unbearable level. One of the most stupidest shonen characters i have ever seen

 

[PuckTheGreat]

I just don’t like how Oden doesn’t consider contacting any of his allies outside of Wano for help or making a back up plan. That’s the offending issue. Oden has enough reason to suspect that Orochi won’t play fairly—the man attacked his family whilst Oden was galavanting around with pirates and seriously injured his wife—but he still expects Orochi to have any sense of fair play?

Orochi has shown to be absolutely putrid, allowing hundreds to suffer for no other reason than generational grudges. His animosity for the country palpable. But Oden still doesn’t have a plan in motion to thwart Orochi or suspect fowl play. That’s the part where it feels like someone replaced Oden’s brain with a child’s. I’d be fine if Oden tried something or had some contingency plan in place for betrayal and that failed. But it makes Oden really look like a fool here, despite Oda clearly wanting us to see Oden as this tragically heroic figure.

It just doesn’t mesh well.

See the ting here is Oden was trying to avoid war against Kaidou & Orochi because of the consequences it could bring and asking the WB pirates or the Roger pirates to help would've induced said war he was trying to prevent. Plus, wano is cut off from the rest of the world so he'd have prolly had to either leave wano temporarily to meet them or send someone out of wano, which could've potetially lead to severe consequence of Orochi or Kaidou got to know about it as Oden would've broken his side of the bargain.

With regards to Orochi & Kaidou, I think people are missing something very important here, which is that Kaidou and Orochi kept the first promise of stopping the kidnappings around Wano which would've unfortunately assured Oden that the two were keeping their end of the bargain. Kaidou and Orochi prolly stopped the kidnappings not to force Oden's hand and strengthen their forces for 5 years but Oden couldn't have known that. To him it'd have looked like they were actually being true to their word and prolly gave him hope that Kaidou and Orochi would leave wano as promised 5 years later. Also y'all have to remember that Orochi's goal wasn't to rule wano, he was simply throwing a fit because his clan was persecuted and as far as Oden was concerned he was compensating for that with an apology to the Kurozumi clan for 5 years. So long as he was able to quench Orochi's anger even if it meant that he lost everything he had, he'd have saved wano. Yes he was a bit naive and underestimated just how scummy Orochi & Kaidou were but I don't think it's fair to say he was a bad leader coz he chose a method that prioritized safety of the lives of the people of wano first and foremost over war.

During those 5 years, that Oden endured the wano citizens were able to live their lives as normal without a care in the world so no harm came to wano during that time so it's not like Oden enduring 5 years of humiliation was for nothing so why exactly are people angry with Oden's decision? Is it solely because he allowed Kaidou's army to go stronger? Coz even that didn't really do much to help Kaidou from almost falling prey to Oden's blade. At the end of the day Oden lost coz of underhanded tricks and not the size of Kaidou's army.

 

[Kai. Do]

At least now I have a reason for why I hate Momonosuke so much, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

 

[Luffy is the mc]

He might have been a shit leader, I can deal with that but to say that he deserved to die, that's going too far. Why? Because he made a wrong choice?
Nobody ever made a mistake in one piece?
We're talking about one of the strongest character in one piece, he's a beast and a legend.

 

[fatbotcat]

Seriously, what's with all this babble.

Then his stubbornness is a character flaw that prevents him from being a good leader. Moreover, that IS what Oden is like - he’s clearly doing whatever it takes to protect his country; where he fails is that he’s so headstrong, he doesn’t consider all the options that could help him do so as viable. All the points you made are legit, but it still doesn’t forgive his inaction at crucial moments, and neither do his actions in rampaging against Kaido way too late.

Roger and Whitebeard were gone, he returned alone (and didn't expect such massive bullhit). As simple as that. Also, what "crucial moments", the story tells of only one "crucial moment", when he acted immediately. If anything would have gotten him angry, beyond his diplomatic attempt (after he first got really bloody angry), he would have acted. And his stubborness has nothing to do with not getting help, they were far gone, and this was a Wano-matter, and he actually had a chance of taking on Kaido. This is all just twisted shit in obsessively trying to jab at him.
As the story tells it, he acted immediately, then did some diplomacy thing, and then also acted immediately, with what seemed a sensible force in both moments.
And his stubbornness has nothing to do with not getting help, it has just to do with him sticking to a task, it is not a character fault in decision making (like some petty, selfish idiot - like maybe Orochi in some moments), rather it is ultimate decision making, and the calculations (which are exactly one: just get Roger/Whitebeard) are contrived bullshit or of "clutching at straws" variety.

 

[Homelander]

Oda gave us a very lame excuse behind what Oden did, he should have come up with something better... Yes, a few people would have died, but that's what happens in a war. Oden just made the situation worse by waiting for 5 years, and what kind of naive person would believe the proposal Orochi made, when he literally just a few minutes ago declared that his sole aim in life is to destroy Wano. What Oden did makes no sense whatsoever. As Grindelwald and Dumbledore said, some sacrifices have to be overlooked for the sake of Greater Good.

Maybe you should wait untill once flashback finishes. I am certain oden had thought of something and came to conclusion.

We know after arrival from laughtale he wanted wano borders to open. This is one of the reason they talked about ships.

We know kaido came for something thats why he is in wano. So all the thing will make sense people just lack patience . I have been reading manga for over a decade. I trust the man he explains stuff before arc finishes.

I d bet fanboys will comeback in this thread and say Goda. It has happened before i am on oda's side here because he knows his stuff in this arc.

Post automatically merged: Feb 16, 2020

Oda gave us a very lame excuse behind what Oden did, he should have come up with something better... Yes, a few people would have died, but that's what happens in a war. Oden just made the situation worse by waiting for 5 years, and what kind of naive person would believe the proposal Orochi made, when he literally just a few minutes ago declared that his sole aim in life is to destroy Wano. What Oden did makes no sense whatsoever. As Grindelwald and Dumbledore said, some sacrifices have to be overlooked for the sake of Greater Good.

Whats the point in war when you have enemy and leader of wano are using civilians as hostage

Comeon man you are saying few will die, the loss will be lot. You think kaido will do charity to wano people he and orochi will use civilian as hostages even if oden gathers for war. It'd say he took the decision what he thought was best at the moment. We are talking beyond the canon material here.

Why didnt oden scheme or create civil war? This is something oden never put in his thoughts the guy didnt want bloodbath so civil war was out of question.

The plot was all about kozuki losing trust in front of wano people they still resent even in current timeline.

Its already mentioned those 5 years were stalemate no civilian were taken hostage or kidnapped thats why oden performsd those naked dance to make sure there were no hostages or orochi does nt break their deal. Was it wise decision ? Might not be however thats what plot is heading to.

Kaido built enough resource and became powerful in those 5 years , those 5 years were more about enemies strength increasing. lt was basically rise of kaido to yonko status.

Post automatically merged: Feb 16, 2020

So he should have let 100 peopme die everytime ?

My god this forum is getting worse and worse everytime

Their argument makes zero sense.


People are so frustruated with fb they are taking on oden. Even though they are over seeing the fact oda will explain stuff in due course as well. He never leaves stuff up in the air. The problem is people expect all info in single basket and its a weekly chapter.

I habe written frustruated readers should take break for a while. Its good thing the weekly chapters are tiring and slow.

Post automatically merged: Feb 16, 2020

Tell me how many people have died in the 20 years post Oden's death?
What tragedies had the people of Wano go through in Udon, leftover town etc.?

What are a couple hundred deaths in comparison to that WHEN they had the biggest chance to free the country, but Oden rather chose to dance like a retard giving his enemies years to get stronger while he's loosing his potential allies with each passing week.

You're right, this forum holds a bunch of idiots only because they don't praise oda for this shit tier writing

Just stop are you reading two piece

After oden's death :
1.Ringo became graveyard and ushimaru was killed.

2. Kuri region became wasteland and many of the civilian died sacrificing themselves when asura tried to stop them.

3 . Yasu became a begger and habu port came under kaido s control vasically anyone opposing kaido died.

So oden was the hurdle for kaido and orochi. The argument are getting worse and worse for you powerlevel fanboys .

 

[silverfire]

Without a doubt Oden would be a horrific leader. This wasn't just a single mistake, this was a whole chain of mistakes which could've been prevented at multiple stages had Oden just been a bit smarter than a brick.

Because of Oden countless people have died, the country has gone to shit, and immense damage was done to Wano for over 20 years. An utter disgrace and the fact that he's celebrated like some sort of hero is beyond laughable.

Worst character in One Piece for a very long time.

Holding back I see, why don’t you tell us how you really feel.

 

[Xione]

Then homie you and 24 other people don't know jack shit about leadership.


1. He had no desire to be a Shogun. He never wanted to be one, made that clear since day 1. He was casted out by his own father. He continuously took the blame of other people upon himself. He created rivers for Wano. He raised a prosperous district in Wano from the ground up, while having no obligation do so. Man gave did amazing things for wano, while being ridiculed, with only few believers like Yasuei.

So making that clear, he had no actual obligation to help Wano at all. Had he walked away, it would've been perfectly fine. He did his part, if Wano is incompetent without him then that's on them. Can't expect your daddy to hold your finger to walk you down the street forever.

2. As far as his leadership goes lets evaluate what he did:
- Raised Kuri from bring a criminal outlaw area into a proper district, while his underlings were simply bunch of scrubs that couldn't read or write.
This alone certified him as a solid leader. He didn't just run around the seas going "look at me a pirate !! yayyyyyy!!!". Homie did some actual administrative work, in building a whole fucking district and correcting and straightening up the people that lived that.


3. People of Wano committed a genocide against the Kurozumi clan, under his father's reign. In which sense does Oden have any moral right to talk about what Orochi did, when his whole family was hunted down by people of Wano?

So what does Oden do? He takes the responsibility on behalf of the people of Wano & his past-father under who's reign that incident happened, and apologizes by lowering his honor by dancing naked.

So what is he doing here? He's taking responsibility for the wrong actions done by the country.
You know what kind of people take responsibility for the wrong doings done by the people their representing? Good leaders.



4. What did his dancing accomplish?
- 5 years of peace, where no wrong was being done to the people of Wano.
- Apology to Orochi and co for the actions committed by the people of Wano.

So taking responsibility & making sure his people are safe = signs of a bad leader. Great to know bro.


5. War is always the last resort. If there are other ways to save your people, any competent leader would rather rely on those ways, than jump directly into war. Only dumbass idiots rely on war as the first way to deal things. Oden saw another way to bring peace to the people of Wano, he did it and it worked. He saw the peace wouldn't hold, he went to take out Kaido.. and it almost worked.


Literally the only flaw in Oden's plan was not knowing he had a traitor among his ranks. That's about it. If you take out the traitor, he ends Orochi & Kaido with no damage done to the people of Wano, with just him & his samurais. That's a smart man.



The examples you brought of a great leader is that lunatic Churchill..

 

[Lion of Olympus]

Why are people defending this acting as if he just made a simple mistake. His dumb, retardedness made all of Wano suffer for 20 whole years. As far as im concerned, Kaido should add veggies to the boiling pot to make this even sweeter

 

[Homelander]

I am sorry but some fanbase are really salty here. The argument here are inconsistent and lack backup in their evidence.

Even though people keep providing facts and latest chapter proves it but as usual some are as usual not satisfied with answers.

I come to conclusion some of them suffer with headcanon syndrome. If you dont like oda's writing you can drop this series or learn to have patience the explanation will be given in due course just enjoy reading it.

Constant whinning is not answer all the question oda will answer it he has done it before . You should trust dont like him like i said take a break or drop the series .

 

[Xione]

Why are people defending this acting as if he just made a simple mistake. His dumb, retardedness made all of Wano suffer for 20 whole years. As far as im concerned, Kaido should add veggies to the boiling pot to make this even sweeter

There was no mistake. His plan was perfect. Only flaw was he got betrayed by one of his own.

It's like you preparing for war with your army on point and almost there to kill the enemy, then your mama comes and stabs you from the back. Were you a dumbfuck who had a bad plan? Or just unlucky that you got betrayed by your own close one?