Chapter Discussion [Opinion] Luffy The Pirate Christ-When A Protagonist Ruins A Story
- Thread starter Lee Ba Shou
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I think the big problem is OP's readers have grown older and have become more critical/objective of the manga, while Oda's writing style has remained stagnant, predictable, and unfortunately subpar. Tropes, archetypes, and linear storylines are ruining this manga, and is reflective in its slow reduction in sales.
Not really, if you go and re-read preโtimskip, you can see that largely and overall things make sense, and are more than enjoyable.
But when it comes to Luffy being the chosen one plot, then I'm sorry but this time the issue is in the people. I've never had any illusions when it comes to chosen one plot, it was clear from the beginning, and if you couldn't notice it then you are blind and have no sense of storytelling and narrative. Like honestly, the first words we hear in Luffy's journey is "destiny," that word is everywhere in one piece, many characters have used it in reference to Luffy. Hell, even the narrator called Luffy's journey as "journey of destiny" or something along those lines. It was christal clear from the start of the series that one piece is about destiny, I mean for god's sake, the main character of this story has the initial "D" in his name, what do you think that stands for lol? Danger, Devil, Dawn or maybe fucking destiny...
But when it comes to Luffy being the chosen one plot, then I'm sorry but this time the issue is in the people. I've never had any illusions when it comes to chosen one plot, it was clear from the beginning, and if you couldn't notice it then you are blind and have no sense of storytelling and narrative. Like honestly, the first words we hear in Luffy's journey is "destiny," that word is everywhere in one piece, many characters have used it in reference to Luffy. Hell, even the narrator called Luffy's journey as "journey of destiny" or something along those lines. It was christal clear from the start of the series that one piece is about destiny, I mean for god's sake, the main character of this story has the initial "D" in his name, what do you think that stands for lol? Danger, Devil, Dawn or maybe fucking destiny...
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Lol I get it trust me. It seems I'm in the minority of those who don't complain how the story is going so far. I'm not blind to the basics of storytelling and how narratives are supposed to work. My post isn't reflective of my personal views, but those of a large portion of the fandom, hence the creation of this thread. The items I listed have been repeated for years, so it shouldn't come as a surprise when they're spelled and regurgitate again.
I like Luffy but heโs definitely a worse version of Christ, who is the best the chosen one archetype has to offer, because in Christโs case he actually is God.
people are right, Goku is nothing like Luffy or Naruto. Heโs an alien but not a royal one. He was left to fend for himself as a grunt and worked to be great. He never had a dream to be โbest,โ he just trained. His attitude and personality (including inexhaustible desire to grow in fighting) sets him apart, not his lineage or birthright. He beats people he shouldnโt, external obstacles, like broly or vegeta or frieza, through sheer effort and passion.
Then youโve people like Gon who has great talent but still a shrimp in an ocean and has to learn to harness his power responsibly; when he pushes too far he hurts himself or loses himself. Or even yusuke, who also has great talent due to lineage but takes it for granted and almost wasted it due to self doubt, even self loathing, if not for people around him who pushed him. These โchosenโ ones have internal barriers to overcome. They become more cautionary tales of being โchosenโ.
but in Luffyโs case so far there is no real internal struggle or external struggles as heโs wrecking through everything in his path and we donโt know much about how his weaknesses make him feel, no internal dialogue, etc. Closest we came was Aceโs death but even that seems to matter little nowadays. Iโm fine with Luffy as a character and where the story is going because we already knew Luffy was chosen, it just makes the story less interesting if the journeyโs end is a foregone conclusion and the main character has little personal journey himself along the way. Maybe thatโs why oda needs all the random twists to shake things up.
people are right, Goku is nothing like Luffy or Naruto. Heโs an alien but not a royal one. He was left to fend for himself as a grunt and worked to be great. He never had a dream to be โbest,โ he just trained. His attitude and personality (including inexhaustible desire to grow in fighting) sets him apart, not his lineage or birthright. He beats people he shouldnโt, external obstacles, like broly or vegeta or frieza, through sheer effort and passion.
Then youโve people like Gon who has great talent but still a shrimp in an ocean and has to learn to harness his power responsibly; when he pushes too far he hurts himself or loses himself. Or even yusuke, who also has great talent due to lineage but takes it for granted and almost wasted it due to self doubt, even self loathing, if not for people around him who pushed him. These โchosenโ ones have internal barriers to overcome. They become more cautionary tales of being โchosenโ.
but in Luffyโs case so far there is no real internal struggle or external struggles as heโs wrecking through everything in his path and we donโt know much about how his weaknesses make him feel, no internal dialogue, etc. Closest we came was Aceโs death but even that seems to matter little nowadays. Iโm fine with Luffy as a character and where the story is going because we already knew Luffy was chosen, it just makes the story less interesting if the journeyโs end is a foregone conclusion and the main character has little personal journey himself along the way. Maybe thatโs why oda needs all the random twists to shake things up.
Tbh I don't like the chosen one thing that much but when you read the entire manga, the way Luffy progresses is legit.
He went through hard times, hard battle, hard training, I don't think it was easier for him than for anyone else.
The way people react to it is different though.
Pre ts when we learned that Garp was his grandfather and Dragon his father, everybody was hyped, not feeling like his strength was given on a silver platter to him, but now when it's implied his df might be special and that he might be related to Joyboy (both aren't confirmed yet), everyone is going crazy about it.
Imo part of his strength is definetely from his family, they are strong, it's a fact. A part of it is his willpower, he is the MC, once again his willpower is de facto above everyone else just because of that and that's enough to make the difference.
Anything else is just done to wrap up the story in a nice way but Luffy earned every power up he gained, more than a lot of other characters. And he is still being clowned, getting defeated or matched when he shouldn't just for the sake of plot or hype.
He went through hard times, hard battle, hard training, I don't think it was easier for him than for anyone else.
The way people react to it is different though.
Pre ts when we learned that Garp was his grandfather and Dragon his father, everybody was hyped, not feeling like his strength was given on a silver platter to him, but now when it's implied his df might be special and that he might be related to Joyboy (both aren't confirmed yet), everyone is going crazy about it.
Imo part of his strength is definetely from his family, they are strong, it's a fact. A part of it is his willpower, he is the MC, once again his willpower is de facto above everyone else just because of that and that's enough to make the difference.
Anything else is just done to wrap up the story in a nice way but Luffy earned every power up he gained, more than a lot of other characters. And he is still being clowned, getting defeated or matched when he shouldn't just for the sake of plot or hype.
I didn't read more than 20%. Why would I? No offense but I think it's garbage, and if I find deep enough flaws in what I read then I won't see the point of continuing. This is the problem with people who complain extensively about OP: you're getting worked like a damn mark if you're still around. You say this guy isn't trying to keep you and he still has you lmao.
And I'm damn sure wouldn't respond piece by piece if I did read your whole post because that means at least twice as much time as you spent, for nothing.
1. Coby at 14 wasn't even like 7 year old Luffy, yet 16 year old Coby is stronger than 17 year old Luffy. Is he the chosen one? What about Momo, who unlocked Haki with zero active will? Or Oden, who was strong enough to manage in peak samurai Wano during childhood?
3. Franky was invited to Roger's crew directly. Under the sort of apprenticeship Shanks also got I'm sure he'd be stronger right now. He was more fortunate than Luffy and Pedro who weren't able to get the same opportunity. Luffy at best would only be able to become an apprentice once he'd already made a name for himself. Oh and also, it's just a damn hat. You have no idea the significance, don't lie to yourself, but we can all agree that it's just regular material. The old Roger hat that no one gives a shit about (Buggy didn't know that part about it, Newgate didn't think much of Luffy until he showed his character) is just like any other straw hat, able to be shredded by Buggy.
5. I know you went off on how Law and Kid didn't get trained by Rayleigh. But they all met him at the same time right? What happened, did they just fucking sit there while Luffy was hitting a celestial dragon near Marine HQ to free the slaves? Is that why he invited Luffy to his house? Good move, Rayleigh, talking to him and finding out his character and all. Seeing his spoken similarities to Roger and how he'd even refuse to learn about OP without finding it himself. Otherwise people would jump to random conclusions. Oh wait they still do...
Anyway, my other post was relating to how he's recovering from near death at this moment. Near death from losing.
Make a Dragon wanna retire man
And I'm damn sure wouldn't respond piece by piece if I did read your whole post because that means at least twice as much time as you spent, for nothing.
1. Coby at 14 wasn't even like 7 year old Luffy, yet 16 year old Coby is stronger than 17 year old Luffy. Is he the chosen one? What about Momo, who unlocked Haki with zero active will? Or Oden, who was strong enough to manage in peak samurai Wano during childhood?
3. Franky was invited to Roger's crew directly. Under the sort of apprenticeship Shanks also got I'm sure he'd be stronger right now. He was more fortunate than Luffy and Pedro who weren't able to get the same opportunity. Luffy at best would only be able to become an apprentice once he'd already made a name for himself. Oh and also, it's just a damn hat. You have no idea the significance, don't lie to yourself, but we can all agree that it's just regular material. The old Roger hat that no one gives a shit about (Buggy didn't know that part about it, Newgate didn't think much of Luffy until he showed his character) is just like any other straw hat, able to be shredded by Buggy.
5. I know you went off on how Law and Kid didn't get trained by Rayleigh. But they all met him at the same time right? What happened, did they just fucking sit there while Luffy was hitting a celestial dragon near Marine HQ to free the slaves? Is that why he invited Luffy to his house? Good move, Rayleigh, talking to him and finding out his character and all. Seeing his spoken similarities to Roger and how he'd even refuse to learn about OP without finding it himself. Otherwise people would jump to random conclusions. Oh wait they still do...
Anyway, my other post was relating to how he's recovering from near death at this moment. Near death from losing.
Make a Dragon wanna retire man
Look at this humble guy
I said no offense but I must have seemed rude anyway, if you're defensive without actually elaborating on your opinion as I did.
So who's luckier, the guy denied by pre Yonko Shanks or the guy who turned down Roger? Would Kid be eligible to train with Rayleigh if there was anything attractive about his personality, when Rayleigh's own wife stated there wasn't?
I said no offense but I must have seemed rude anyway, if you're defensive without actually elaborating on your opinion as I did.
So who's luckier, the guy denied by pre Yonko Shanks or the guy who turned down Roger? Would Kid be eligible to train with Rayleigh if there was anything attractive about his personality, when Rayleigh's own wife stated there wasn't?
I think I did elaborate on my opinion plenty in the OP lol.
But letโs clarify why Rayleigh wanted to meet Luffy:
Rayleigh wanted to meet Luffy because Shanks told him stories of a kid in East Blue who reminded him of Roger. Why did Luffy remind Shanks of Roger? Because Luffy just so happened to be born with Rogerโs exact personality. Yet another way Pirate Jesus is blessed, he was literally written to inherit the exact demeanor, personalities, and life philosophies of Gold Roger himself, inexplicably and without ever meeting Roger to have been influenced by him.
Kid, Iโm pretty sure he and Luffy have like the exact same personality in many respects, but Rayleigh was already pre-destined to meet the second-coming of Roger so fuck Kid. โAnybody can be as great as Luffy!โ You know this notion is bullshit when even people born exactly the same as Luffy minus a few blessings canโt even sniff Luffyโs balls in terms of greatness or accomplishments.
But letโs clarify why Rayleigh wanted to meet Luffy:
Rayleigh wanted to meet Luffy because Shanks told him stories of a kid in East Blue who reminded him of Roger. Why did Luffy remind Shanks of Roger? Because Luffy just so happened to be born with Rogerโs exact personality. Yet another way Pirate Jesus is blessed, he was literally written to inherit the exact demeanor, personalities, and life philosophies of Gold Roger himself, inexplicably and without ever meeting Roger to have been influenced by him.
Kid, Iโm pretty sure he and Luffy have like the exact same personality in many respects, but Rayleigh was already pre-destined to meet the second-coming of Roger so fuck Kid. โAnybody can be as great as Luffy!โ You know this notion is bullshit when even people born exactly the same as Luffy minus a few blessings canโt even sniff Luffyโs balls in terms of greatness or accomplishments.