Controversial Powerscalers don't understand One Piece

Do you agree with my position ?


  • Total voters
    35
Cap. Jabra mastered his fruit for a decade and the result is the moves he knows works best for his fighting style.
I mean, yeah, you can say he mastered, but... there's no statement which says Jabra's fruit mastery was any better than Kaku's after he got used to it in a few minutes.

Meanwhile, when it comes to ACTUAL showing, Kaku has shown to be far more creative.

My favorite is that you're lying. Man's tekkai mixed with zoan powers was his specialty. Foh shanal. You're stupid and lose everytime we debate.
His specialty is moving with tekkai. Can be used with or without DF lol.
 
It seems you've failed to understand why I used Doriki, which is probably my fault : they are a tool for Oda to explain his narrative structure when it comes to the crew's dynamic and how it impact the stories he tells. Nothing else, nothing less, nothing more.

In essence Doriki matters as much as Haki, skill, AdvCoC and Devil fruits : none at all. What matters here is that they were introduced as the one - and once - and only direct and clear measure of one's strength, so to speak. They were a narrative tool for Oda to try and convey the basic idea that Luffy was really the Main Character with all that it entails in the kind of medium one piece is (a shonen manga of the WSJ).

Oda doesn't care about the displays of power from his characters or how they can be interpretated by some members of the readership. For him the top three are set in stone and all the story around flows from it - or at least have to accomodate it, as best it can.

Powerscalers care about who has displayed the most prominent skills with weapon X, whom Haki is superior to whom, whose title crush the others, etc. What I say is that it doesn't matter, and that by using the attempt by Oda to have it understood by his readers, one can better understand his writing and how he envision his magnum opus.

And if it makes One Piece better or worse for one's is up to one's personnal opinion.
Unfortunately for you if 4000 >>> 2200 then 2200 > 2180 and not >= . Never went to school ?
 

Sir Tuna Sandwich II

SII - Sakazuki Incinerate Imu
And again, none of that matters. None.

Oda wants Luffy to be the top SH, plain and simple, and Sanji is weaker than Zoro. That's how he writes his story. You can add or remove everything you want to any character, it won't change that.
Luffy is the captain ofcourse he the top SH
And everyone except some candies know Zoro > Sanji
What the point of the thread again?
 
I mean, yeah, you can say he mastered, but... there's no statement which says Jabra's fruit mastery was any better than Kaku's after he got used to it in a few minutes.

Meanwhile, when it comes to ACTUAL showing, Kaku has shown to be far more creative.



His specialty is moving with tekkai. Can be used with or without DF lol.
But he incorporated it with his df. Along with his zoan talon slashes, etc.

Whyre you hating? You just really want that to be true.

Kaku was literally surprising himself and making mistakes as he learned about his fruit. Kaku had more potential than Jabra sure. But the difference in experience is undeniable.
 
But he incorporated it with his df. Along with his zoan talon slashes, etc.

Kaku was literally surprising himself and making mistakes as he learned about his fruit. Kaku had more potential than Jabra sure. But the difference in experience is undeniable.
So did Kaku quite perfectly. And in a lot more creative and diverse manners than Jabura!

Jyabura definitely had more experience, but Kaku also definitely made up for it by not only his quick learning, but also really smart ways to incorporate everything his DF had to offer. From nose, to tail, to legs, to shapeshifting in various manners. No zoan has ever done it to this degree outside of Chopper.

Sure he did make more mistakes and was learning along the way, but he made up for it with what's stated above.
 
Edit : Because some people don't seem to differenciate narrative talk and powerscalling :



Most powerscalers (no matter whom they consider their fave, but it's mostly prevalent among Zoro and Mihawk fans as far as I can tell) don't understand how Oda sees the power dynamics in the crew, not even AFTER he wrote a whole explanation for them back in Enies Lobby with the Doriki.

Lucci : 4 000
Kaku : 2 200
Jabura : 2 180

The other ones are irrelevant here. What's matter is the following facts : the Doriki are calculated in base human form, meaning that Jabura is slightly below Kaku and Lucci extremely ahead of both.

Another fact is that carnivorous Zoans are said to be better suited for battle. Wether or not you consider it a truth or more of rumor, it doesn't change the fact that gaining claws and fangs to fight make it easier to empower the fighting-style of a non-swordman. The gap between transformed Kaku and Jabura thus remains largely the same, both displaying abilities they couldn't or wouldn't use in base form.

Therefore, Enies Lobby was an attempt - which somehow failed because of his readership's lack of comprehension, clearly - by Oda to explains how the future arc's battle would be decided and what it meant for the power dynamic in the crew's top fighters. Luffy fight the strongest, Zoro the 2nd strongest (who is serious), Sanji the third strongest (who is more of a clown/funny character, at least design wise). It was something he had done in Alabasta, kind of muddled by playing with in Skypiea but then always followed in the arcs which have followed Enies Lobby.

It doesn't mean, however, that each arc is a carbon copy of the others but that Oda has a very simple formula he uses, which can be summed as such : Luffy >>> Zoro >= Sanji.

Other characters may be extremely close to them (such as Jinbe currently) but Oda's goal is to have Luffy fight the strongest member of the opposite crew, Zoro the second strongest and Sanji the third strongest. Hence why in Wano Law and Kidd fought with Big Mom, who was the strongest member of another crew, distinct from the Beast Pirates.

Even the fabled Rooftop Five had a clear difference between the captains, who were outclassed but largely able to held their own against two Emperors, and the two vice-captains who were wheezing and panting long before the others, because while they are extremely powerful themselves, they simply don't play in the same legue than Luffy, Kidd and Law.

You could argue that the New World arcs haven't been like that, and you would be both right and wrong. Right because, indeed, on several occasions, Sanji didn't fight the third strongest (Punk Hazard, Dressrosa, Whole Cake Island). However, you'd be wrong because out of those, Sanji fought the strongest one for a time on Punk Hazard (Vergo), with the results that we know - for fairness sake, I must say I'm pretty confident he wouldn't have had such a bad showing if his body hadn't been severely damaged before hand when Nami had it -, was absent from Dressrosa when the fight started and had to flee Totto Land with half the crew, meaning that since Fishman Island, Wano was the first arc with a full crew (Punk Hazard being a mini-arc where there simply wasn't enough opponents for the crew, I don't consider it a full arc, kind of like Zou but with battles, if you will).

And in Wano, again, the formula was respected : Luffy fought Kaido (who was far stronger than King and Queen), Zoro fought the serious one and Sanji the funny one.

Anyone willing to read One Piece without preconception will of course notice that it wasn't always the case. At first, Zoro was more clearly Luffy's equal (just look at Whiskey Peak, the whole fight with Mihawk being basically Zoro's Shanks, going as far as being depicted as a "friend" of Shanks, etc.). Early arcs even had some surprising twist and turns (Hacchi being probably weaker than Kuroobi - or at least far more funny than the latter, which in nowadays' arcs would make him an opponent for Sanji). However, by Little Garden, another arc largely designed to highlight this rivalry, was probably the moment Oda decided that Zoro and Sanji would be real rivals, just like Dorry and Broggy.

But what about the bounties ?

The truth of the matter is that it isn't the exact numbers on it which matters (otherwise Zoro would have been weaker than Robin from Alabasta to Enies Lobby, or than Sanji during Wano) but rather a matter of range. Is your bounty in the low decades ? You're super weak, except if you're a rookie starting in East Blue. It's in the high decades/reach a hundred or even several on Paradise ? You're somewhat strong for a pirate on the first part of Grand Line. If you're bounty is between 500 000 000 and 1 billion you are already a legendary pirate. Above, you're in a very select club of monsters who could pretend to someday become an Emperor.

Above 2 billion, you are an Emperor or at least on their level in term of fighting abilities (Buggy not being concerned by it, of course).

Does it mean that Oda is great or terrible because he clings to this formula and makes sure it remains true no matter what power-ups are needed by the characters for it to remain in place ? The answer depends on everyone's opinion about what the core of One Piece is. For me, it's not the combat so the crew's dynamics remaining largely the same is perfect for me. For someone who considers battles to be the main attraction of One Piece, of course the answer would be vastly different.

But it doesn't change the fact that most discussions about powerscalling or some theories (ZKK most notably but it isn't the only one) can be pretty firmly debunked when one consider One Piece through those very simple lenses : Luffy >>> Zoro >= Sanji.
Dude you pushed for a subpar side character to join the main crew you don't understand One Piece either..
 

Nikuzi

⚓𝒫𝒾𝓇𝒶𝓉𝑒 𝒬𝓊𝑒𝑒𝓃 𝒮𝑒𝓃𝒸𝒽𝑜𝓊⚓
I agree, people that blather about AP and DC and Lethality and all this other dumb shit instead of just taking what's on the pages at face value legitimately just do not get it. Powerscaling is fun, but not when you take it so seriously that you think your made up headcanon shit is how the manga actually works.
 
honestly, it's kinda pointless. I only powerscale to kill time.

But really, you are having arguments over a series where fights happen once every 100 chapters. Zoro used asura for the first time in over 10 years of serialization.
 
I mean this is cool and all, but if you're trying to join the wider powerscaling community, then you're gonna have to leave this "narrative>>>>feats" agenda at the door. If there are numerous examples of feats, then portrayal should be an afterthought as we have on screen evidence.
 
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