So this one has been a long time coming, but really I've wanted to get to the end (or near the end) of Wano before I really decided to talk about it.
We all know OP is coming to an end eventually, but we all ALSO know that there are still an insane amount of plotlines still left that this series has yet to address. I'm going to put all my thoughts down here in the hopes for some actual good discussion. Hopefully this is an easy read:
I. Preface: Elbaf and it's "main" plot.
I think the common consensus is that Elbaf will highly tie into answer much of OP's "world" lore questions, that being its species, possible sky island/moon implications. There are decent implications/theories I've seen about Joy Boy being a giant (i.e. the huge, frozen Strawhat being his; @Monkey D Theories had a good one). A lot of this also has to do with early dialogue from Dorry and Broggy, but I don't want to really dive too deep into that or possible Norse implications on the arc. I think we can say however that Elbaf will 100% have:
- Heavy warrior themes for Usopp
- A common sense of adventure due to its geography (it's impossibly huge tree). I'd even go to say this will probably be the final adventure arc
- Prince Loki and Giants!
It will "probably" have:
- Heavy world lore
- Potential implications on the 4th Road Poneglyph if not addressed earlier
- Concept of Gigantification touched on again.
That last bit is important, because Gigantification has been a huge plotline in this series since Punk Hazard.
- The World Government experimenting on prisoners for Gigantification projects to create the ultimate military force
- Caesar doing the same on children to "surpass" Vegapunk
- Big Mom hiring Caesar for this reason so she can feel "equal" to people around her (i.e. why her only relevance was with Elbaf to begin with).
- Mother Caramel abducting Giant Children and selling them to the WG for the Marine force.
- The Numbers being the failed, surviving Gigantification experiments of PH.
- Smoker and Tashigi going to Vegapunk to cure the gigantified children.
Now, THAT last bit is what really leads me into the topic at hand. Much of this speculation relies on the association between Elbaf Giants and the potential of the WG's exploitation of Gigantification. Thats it. I personally did not want to focus on the "fantastical" side of Elbaf. I think we all know we are getting some from that.
What I really wanted to focus on was this extremely large, lingering plotline that has been ongoing in One Piece since post-Enies Lobby/Thriller Bark.
II. Vegapunk and Kuma
It really all started with a random namedrop, Vegapunk, and him being responsible for Kairoseki. Nothing inherently important, but it starts to get REALLY Interesting when you get to Thriller Bark and we meet one of the most enigmatic characters in the series:
Really, there's a lot to process with Kuma. He's someone who allowed himself to be prototyped for Vegapunk's Pacifista project. To this date, we still do not have a reason or known motivation. A former Revolutionary and "good" King, we know he IS someone with good intentions, but that version of him is dead. We can see that he has heavy ties to Bonney, who is also just as mysterious of a character. We can also see here that Oda has very much set up Kuma as this tragic antagonist charcter. Someone who is heavily tied to Zoro and his dedication to Luffy (Luffy to this day does not know what Zoro did for him), and is a living, allegedly indestructible weapon.
Last we know of Kuma was Sabo's intent to rescue him. While I won't presume to know what happened, I do not believe the conflict was resolved, especially because there is a ridiculous amount of mystery surrounding Vegapunk, Kuma and Bonney. I'd sooner expect to see these 3 and potentially the Revolutionaries involved in the next major arc as a result.
III. Vegapunk's Lab
Not something I will spend a lot of time on, but we know that Vegapunk's lab is somewhere in the New World. We know it is not near New Marineford or Mariejois, because Ryokugyuu remarks that Fujitora "travelled a long way" from there after seeing the SSG and he's barred from re-entering New Marineford until he caputures Luffy. Because Oda hasn't really addressed this and still hasn't in hundreds of chapters, it lends credence to assume he intends to show this location in the the future with the crew, potentially even hiding it as a surprise if it is in fact on Elbaf (for the reasons I describe above). Does it have to do with the fabled "Emerald City"? Maybe, but not really a discussion here.
IV. The Marine Science Division, Pacifista, Kizaru and Sentoumaru.
Rolling off Kuma, we have the Pacifista, designed from Kuma's appearance a prototype unit (presumably as a precursor to the SSG). Not much I have to say about, other than the people that are associated with them:
I think it's important to point out here that not only is Sentoumaru Vegapunk's Bodyguard (self proclaimed "best guard in the world" lol), he is also Kizaru's subordinate. But what's REALLY important here is the fact that Kizaru IS the basis of enabling the Pacifista with lasers, which seems to imply that Vegapunk and Kizaru do associate with each other:
So at the end of the day, pre-timeskip leaves you with the idea that Luffy and his crew cannot handle these men, who seem to be associated with each other, all through Vegapunk and the Marine Science Division. But is also suggests that these men WILL be future antagonists to the crew:
V. Bonney and Urogue
So a decent pattern we've been seeing is that per-arc, since Punk Hazard, Oda has had Supernova involved in the plot. Law, being probably Luffy's most important ally, received significant focus throughout PH and DR. Bege was tied to WCI. Kid/Killer, Drake, Apoo and Hawkins are all associated with Wano. That leaves Bonney and Urogue, probably the 2 most mysterious Supernova and the only 2 not tackled by the story.
I do believe that there is intent to resolve these 2 plotlines before the endgame, and what better way that having Urogue heavily tie into the Elbaf/Lore side, while having Bonney tie into the Vegapunk side of an arc like this?
This is sort of the main drive for why I think Elbaf will not be a simple "Giant" Centric arc, but far bigger and more complicated like DR or Wano, because very clearly, Oda needs to tie up ALOT of signficant loose ends.
VI. Missing Characters
Really on a quick sidenote, I wanted to run down a list of "missing" characters seemingly associated with Vegapunk or potentially Elbaf:
- Bonney and Urogue by default, they need to be addressed, as mentioned above.
- Smoker and Tashigi have not been seen since the end of DR. No progress updates on them at the Reverie.
- Caesar is still MIA
- Germa now has a cover story, but who knows where they head to next and why. Maybe, like many other cover stories in this series, leads to their next appearance, potentially even with Vegapunk.
VII. Some Matchups
Now for everyone's favorite discussion since nothing else apparently matters, I guess I'll touch on some matchups and my own opinions of them. I will preface that if Vegapunk is bad, he probably a more cerebral antagonist than anything. He clearly is a man with good intentions (the things he did for his birth island), but also someone who's clearly fucking nuts with the 1 button explosion he put in his lab for Franky to press lmao. I'm also not entirely sure of the SSG (assumedly Vegapunk's main "mad scientist" team, enhanced by Pacifista Technology, basically 6-7 Queens of different variety/strength/power), maybe they are involved, maybe they are endgame material.
Let's start with that seems to trigger half the forum:
- Luffy vs. Kizaru: Yes, I think Luffy will first and foremost fight an Admiral before anyone else does. No, I do not think this should be powerscaled as KIzaru > Kaido or vice versa to people who deny it. But I want to drive home a point here: Kizaru really has only been associated with Luffy. He went to Sabaody to arrest Luffy for punching a Celestial Dragon. He attacks Luffy like 3 times during marineford and openly mocks him for his tenacity:
But the biggest thing to me is just Kizaru's speed. Luffy is the only known crew member with Future Sight. Sure, arguments could be made that Sanji "might" have it, but it'ts not really a proven thing outside of Sanji's reaction speed to Katakuri with observation Haki. What I mean by this is think about how Luffy, without future sight, beat Katakuri based on pure speed with Snakeman. He "stressed" his ability to reliably use it. Now try and apply that to Kizaru, it would truly be on another level. I personally think Luffy would fight Kizaru on the premise that he finally perfects FS. The difficulty is not in the tankiness or the AP of his opponent (i.e. Kaido) but the sheer speed of his opponent. For the record, yes I believe Rayleigh has perfect FS, which is why he can keep up with Kizaru.
- Zoro vs Kuma: I think Zoro, being tied somewhat to Bonney in Sabaody and HEAVILY tied to Kuma as someone who nearly killed him, deserves to close this plotline. I also think its heavily unexpected by most of the fanbase, because we assume that because he's a mindless husk, he's not a formidable antagonist. Except Kuma, like Kizaru, has an EXTREMELY broken DF that I think is perfect for Zoro because he can reflect everything, teleport and dangerously send the user halfway around the world if he wanted. Could he be more dangerous than King? Depends on if Vegapunk upgraded him I'd say, but another character we haven't truly seen fight to his fullest, controlled or not.
- Tbh, I don't really have a current matchup for Sanji. It "could" be Sentoumaru (if he's more formidable than Queen as Vegapunks BG) or that could be left for Jinbe due to their similar fighting styles. So either Sanji/Jinbe vs. Sentoumaru
- Franky vs. Vegapunk is another "possible" one due to their shared history (Franky studying in his lab for 2 years). Depends on if he's antagonistic or not.
- Ideally, the rest would be against the SSG or other members of the science division. I assume the Giants would be there to be used as allies to help drive the Marines out of Elbaf if they are exploiting them. And yes, I think a lot of Usopp's central arc here will be uniting the Giants under one cause and maybe tying it back to gigantification. I also think it will be central to Franky due to Vegapunk, central to Robin due to the Revolutionaries. Hell, it might be central to Nami or Chopper by some virtue as well, but they technically got their focus with FI/PH. It could be everyone's if Zoro is meant to tie up Kuma's plotline, or if Sanji is meant to deal with Germa again.
TLDR: Elbaf will be 1 part Giant/sky/world/moon/lore adventure arc, 1 part Vegapunk/Kuma/Revolutionary. Kizaru will be the main antagonist and the last major fight before Lodestar/Laugh Tale. Kuma/Bonney/Revolutionary plotlines will be resolved.
Trust me, I am 100% prepared to be wrong, but just thought this might be Oda's last chance to really resolve some extraneous plot lines. It's possible however, that all of this is reserved for the endgame. I just think Bonney/Urogue deserve arc focus like the rest of the Supernova. I also think Oda is notorious for combining "arc" plots together, and with time assumedly running out, I see him adding a lot to Elbaf. Who knows, might even tie into Shanks or Blackbeard. Hell, it might have the strawhat fleet.
Might be a good theory, might be bad. Maybe it's too much. You guys decide.
some tags:
We all know OP is coming to an end eventually, but we all ALSO know that there are still an insane amount of plotlines still left that this series has yet to address. I'm going to put all my thoughts down here in the hopes for some actual good discussion. Hopefully this is an easy read:
I. Preface: Elbaf and it's "main" plot.
I think the common consensus is that Elbaf will highly tie into answer much of OP's "world" lore questions, that being its species, possible sky island/moon implications. There are decent implications/theories I've seen about Joy Boy being a giant (i.e. the huge, frozen Strawhat being his; @Monkey D Theories had a good one). A lot of this also has to do with early dialogue from Dorry and Broggy, but I don't want to really dive too deep into that or possible Norse implications on the arc. I think we can say however that Elbaf will 100% have:
- Heavy warrior themes for Usopp
- A common sense of adventure due to its geography (it's impossibly huge tree). I'd even go to say this will probably be the final adventure arc
- Prince Loki and Giants!
It will "probably" have:
- Heavy world lore
- Potential implications on the 4th Road Poneglyph if not addressed earlier
- Concept of Gigantification touched on again.
That last bit is important, because Gigantification has been a huge plotline in this series since Punk Hazard.
- The World Government experimenting on prisoners for Gigantification projects to create the ultimate military force
- Caesar doing the same on children to "surpass" Vegapunk
- Big Mom hiring Caesar for this reason so she can feel "equal" to people around her (i.e. why her only relevance was with Elbaf to begin with).
- Mother Caramel abducting Giant Children and selling them to the WG for the Marine force.
- The Numbers being the failed, surviving Gigantification experiments of PH.
- Smoker and Tashigi going to Vegapunk to cure the gigantified children.
Now, THAT last bit is what really leads me into the topic at hand. Much of this speculation relies on the association between Elbaf Giants and the potential of the WG's exploitation of Gigantification. Thats it. I personally did not want to focus on the "fantastical" side of Elbaf. I think we all know we are getting some from that.
What I really wanted to focus on was this extremely large, lingering plotline that has been ongoing in One Piece since post-Enies Lobby/Thriller Bark.
II. Vegapunk and Kuma
It really all started with a random namedrop, Vegapunk, and him being responsible for Kairoseki. Nothing inherently important, but it starts to get REALLY Interesting when you get to Thriller Bark and we meet one of the most enigmatic characters in the series:
Really, there's a lot to process with Kuma. He's someone who allowed himself to be prototyped for Vegapunk's Pacifista project. To this date, we still do not have a reason or known motivation. A former Revolutionary and "good" King, we know he IS someone with good intentions, but that version of him is dead. We can see that he has heavy ties to Bonney, who is also just as mysterious of a character. We can also see here that Oda has very much set up Kuma as this tragic antagonist charcter. Someone who is heavily tied to Zoro and his dedication to Luffy (Luffy to this day does not know what Zoro did for him), and is a living, allegedly indestructible weapon.
Last we know of Kuma was Sabo's intent to rescue him. While I won't presume to know what happened, I do not believe the conflict was resolved, especially because there is a ridiculous amount of mystery surrounding Vegapunk, Kuma and Bonney. I'd sooner expect to see these 3 and potentially the Revolutionaries involved in the next major arc as a result.
III. Vegapunk's Lab
Not something I will spend a lot of time on, but we know that Vegapunk's lab is somewhere in the New World. We know it is not near New Marineford or Mariejois, because Ryokugyuu remarks that Fujitora "travelled a long way" from there after seeing the SSG and he's barred from re-entering New Marineford until he caputures Luffy. Because Oda hasn't really addressed this and still hasn't in hundreds of chapters, it lends credence to assume he intends to show this location in the the future with the crew, potentially even hiding it as a surprise if it is in fact on Elbaf (for the reasons I describe above). Does it have to do with the fabled "Emerald City"? Maybe, but not really a discussion here.
IV. The Marine Science Division, Pacifista, Kizaru and Sentoumaru.
Rolling off Kuma, we have the Pacifista, designed from Kuma's appearance a prototype unit (presumably as a precursor to the SSG). Not much I have to say about, other than the people that are associated with them:
I think it's important to point out here that not only is Sentoumaru Vegapunk's Bodyguard (self proclaimed "best guard in the world" lol), he is also Kizaru's subordinate. But what's REALLY important here is the fact that Kizaru IS the basis of enabling the Pacifista with lasers, which seems to imply that Vegapunk and Kizaru do associate with each other:
So at the end of the day, pre-timeskip leaves you with the idea that Luffy and his crew cannot handle these men, who seem to be associated with each other, all through Vegapunk and the Marine Science Division. But is also suggests that these men WILL be future antagonists to the crew:
V. Bonney and Urogue
So a decent pattern we've been seeing is that per-arc, since Punk Hazard, Oda has had Supernova involved in the plot. Law, being probably Luffy's most important ally, received significant focus throughout PH and DR. Bege was tied to WCI. Kid/Killer, Drake, Apoo and Hawkins are all associated with Wano. That leaves Bonney and Urogue, probably the 2 most mysterious Supernova and the only 2 not tackled by the story.
I do believe that there is intent to resolve these 2 plotlines before the endgame, and what better way that having Urogue heavily tie into the Elbaf/Lore side, while having Bonney tie into the Vegapunk side of an arc like this?
This is sort of the main drive for why I think Elbaf will not be a simple "Giant" Centric arc, but far bigger and more complicated like DR or Wano, because very clearly, Oda needs to tie up ALOT of signficant loose ends.
VI. Missing Characters
Really on a quick sidenote, I wanted to run down a list of "missing" characters seemingly associated with Vegapunk or potentially Elbaf:
- Bonney and Urogue by default, they need to be addressed, as mentioned above.
- Smoker and Tashigi have not been seen since the end of DR. No progress updates on them at the Reverie.
- Caesar is still MIA
- Germa now has a cover story, but who knows where they head to next and why. Maybe, like many other cover stories in this series, leads to their next appearance, potentially even with Vegapunk.
VII. Some Matchups
Now for everyone's favorite discussion since nothing else apparently matters, I guess I'll touch on some matchups and my own opinions of them. I will preface that if Vegapunk is bad, he probably a more cerebral antagonist than anything. He clearly is a man with good intentions (the things he did for his birth island), but also someone who's clearly fucking nuts with the 1 button explosion he put in his lab for Franky to press lmao. I'm also not entirely sure of the SSG (assumedly Vegapunk's main "mad scientist" team, enhanced by Pacifista Technology, basically 6-7 Queens of different variety/strength/power), maybe they are involved, maybe they are endgame material.
Let's start with that seems to trigger half the forum:
- Luffy vs. Kizaru: Yes, I think Luffy will first and foremost fight an Admiral before anyone else does. No, I do not think this should be powerscaled as KIzaru > Kaido or vice versa to people who deny it. But I want to drive home a point here: Kizaru really has only been associated with Luffy. He went to Sabaody to arrest Luffy for punching a Celestial Dragon. He attacks Luffy like 3 times during marineford and openly mocks him for his tenacity:
But the biggest thing to me is just Kizaru's speed. Luffy is the only known crew member with Future Sight. Sure, arguments could be made that Sanji "might" have it, but it'ts not really a proven thing outside of Sanji's reaction speed to Katakuri with observation Haki. What I mean by this is think about how Luffy, without future sight, beat Katakuri based on pure speed with Snakeman. He "stressed" his ability to reliably use it. Now try and apply that to Kizaru, it would truly be on another level. I personally think Luffy would fight Kizaru on the premise that he finally perfects FS. The difficulty is not in the tankiness or the AP of his opponent (i.e. Kaido) but the sheer speed of his opponent. For the record, yes I believe Rayleigh has perfect FS, which is why he can keep up with Kizaru.
- Zoro vs Kuma: I think Zoro, being tied somewhat to Bonney in Sabaody and HEAVILY tied to Kuma as someone who nearly killed him, deserves to close this plotline. I also think its heavily unexpected by most of the fanbase, because we assume that because he's a mindless husk, he's not a formidable antagonist. Except Kuma, like Kizaru, has an EXTREMELY broken DF that I think is perfect for Zoro because he can reflect everything, teleport and dangerously send the user halfway around the world if he wanted. Could he be more dangerous than King? Depends on if Vegapunk upgraded him I'd say, but another character we haven't truly seen fight to his fullest, controlled or not.
- Tbh, I don't really have a current matchup for Sanji. It "could" be Sentoumaru (if he's more formidable than Queen as Vegapunks BG) or that could be left for Jinbe due to their similar fighting styles. So either Sanji/Jinbe vs. Sentoumaru
- Franky vs. Vegapunk is another "possible" one due to their shared history (Franky studying in his lab for 2 years). Depends on if he's antagonistic or not.
- Ideally, the rest would be against the SSG or other members of the science division. I assume the Giants would be there to be used as allies to help drive the Marines out of Elbaf if they are exploiting them. And yes, I think a lot of Usopp's central arc here will be uniting the Giants under one cause and maybe tying it back to gigantification. I also think it will be central to Franky due to Vegapunk, central to Robin due to the Revolutionaries. Hell, it might be central to Nami or Chopper by some virtue as well, but they technically got their focus with FI/PH. It could be everyone's if Zoro is meant to tie up Kuma's plotline, or if Sanji is meant to deal with Germa again.
TLDR: Elbaf will be 1 part Giant/sky/world/moon/lore adventure arc, 1 part Vegapunk/Kuma/Revolutionary. Kizaru will be the main antagonist and the last major fight before Lodestar/Laugh Tale. Kuma/Bonney/Revolutionary plotlines will be resolved.
Trust me, I am 100% prepared to be wrong, but just thought this might be Oda's last chance to really resolve some extraneous plot lines. It's possible however, that all of this is reserved for the endgame. I just think Bonney/Urogue deserve arc focus like the rest of the Supernova. I also think Oda is notorious for combining "arc" plots together, and with time assumedly running out, I see him adding a lot to Elbaf. Who knows, might even tie into Shanks or Blackbeard. Hell, it might have the strawhat fleet.
Might be a good theory, might be bad. Maybe it's too much. You guys decide.
some tags:
Last edited:
