Character Discussion Quintessence of Sacrifice & The Shield of The Pirate King

BleakAsh

BleakAsh

‎
#1
#1
I don't recall if someone picked this up from the recent chapter, Oda is dealing with Gabban using a character theme that is highly complementary to Sanji.

The ability to protect those you love the most, and the guilt of inability

It is a charcter pattern extremely crucial to Sanji that Oda is paralleling with Gabban

Lets take a look at how oda has consistent made Sanji protect the crew and deal with the inability to do so.

- Sanji sacrifices himself for zeff against pearl

- Sanji gets ragdolls Kurobi for condescending him about his ability to protect those important to him

- Sanji Sacrifices himself for Ussop and Nami in Skypia when Enel was bragging about how fruitless it is because of his mantra abiloty

- Sanji unlock DJ to manhandle Jyabura for insulting Robin and him being able to protect her

- Sanji sacrifices himself for Nami against Absolom and is willing to scarfice himself for Luffy and his crew for.

- Sanji is extremely furious that how incompetent he is for not being able to protect his crew against Kuma.

- Oda has sanji being the one who protects Nami with his body during Punk Hazard

- Sanji protects his crew yet again from Doflamingo and puts his life on the line o deal with Doffy solo

-Sanji protects the people of Zou out of his kindness

- Sanji sacrifices himself to BM for the sake of his father figure and his crew

- Sanji protects his tyrannical psycho family from Big Mom



After All of that.. Now Sanji's counter part is shown being unable to protect Elbaf and his precious family and his regret of his inability is profound to say the least

Someone who Oda has liklenedto Sanji in his charcter and demeanor

I'm soo certain that this will lead to Sanji unlocking COC.. While protecting his crew out of sheer love he has for them cementing himself as the shield that Luffy wields to protect his crew.



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Salah WG

Salah WG

‎
#2
#2
Zoro is a Unique Case so far, He was given a Scar by a Black Blade/Mihawk, his Eye Mystery, his Asura, his Cursed Swords ... etc
Oda can easily come up with a reason on why Zoro took long to Unlock CoC,

But what's Sanji's Case?
Why didn't He show it all this time?
Almost everyone We know have CoC either Unlocked it as Kids or not long after Start of their Journey,
While Rest were Unconfirmed, but no reason to assume it wasn't the same case for them,

To clarify, i'm not saying Sanji won't get CoC, and i believe Usopp too will get it, and i'm not sure about Rest of Crew,
But i'm asking, what kind of Theory you have on why Sanji didn't figure out yet that He has CoC?

Cuz receiving CoC isn't same as being Born with it,
We are in Endgame now & Sanji or Usopp or others still don't have it, so imo the most likely Scenario is that We are gonna start seeing New Rules regarding DF Acquistion & CoC Acquistion,
 
BleakAsh

BleakAsh

‎
#3
#3
Salah WG said:
Zoro is a Unique Case so far, He was given a Scar by a Black Blade/Mihawk, his Eye Mystery, his Asura, his Cursed Swords ... etc
Oda can easily come up with a reason on why Zoro took long to Unlock CoC,

But what's Sanji's Case?
Why didn't He show it all this time?
Almost everyone We know have CoC either Unlocked it as Kids or not long after Start of their Journey,
While Rest were Unconfirmed, but no reason to assume it wasn't the same case for them,

To clarify, i'm not saying Sanji won't get CoC, and i believe Usopp too will get it, and i'm not sure about Rest of Crew,
But i'm asking, what kind of Theory you have on why Sanji didn't figure out yet that He has CoC?

Cuz receiving CoC isn't same as being Born with it,
We are in Endgame now & Sanji or Usopp or others still don't have it, so imo the most likely Scenario is that We are gonna start seeing New Rules regarding DF Acquistion & CoC Acquistion,
Click to expand...
If Zoro being sword of the PK showed off hos Coc officially during offense

Sanji being the shield of the PK will display it in his defence

Its kind late atm i'd give you a tafeel on it
 
Last edited:
Salah WG

Salah WG

‎
#4
#4
BleakAsh said:
If Zoro being sword of the PK showed off hos Coc officially during offense

Sanji being the shield of the PK will display it in his defence

Its kind late atm i'd give you a tafeel on it
Click to expand...
Zoro didn't display it during offence, He was Restricted by Enma's Nerf which forced him to use CoC to free himself,
Just like Ace, Doffy, Luffy, Yamato unlocked CoC when They were tied,

Again, i'm not asking for what reason will Sanji unlock it,
I'm asking what stopped him all this time from realizing He was born with it?
And no need to use Zoro, just tell me about Sanji alone, what's his Story with CoC?

Actually if you wanna compare between Zoro & Sanji,
Zoro's desire for ultimate offence eventually led to him being called King of Hell in Onigashima,
Sanji's desire to endure & protect others eventually led to him being called Warrior of Science in Onigashima,
So not only Oda could have given Sanji CoC at same time as Zoro, but He also gave him an Epithet unrelated to CoC,
 
Z

Zolo fanboy

‎
#5
#5
Salah WG said:
Zoro didn't display it during offence, He was Restricted by Enma's Nerf which forced him to use CoC to free himself,
Just like Ace, Doffy, Luffy, Yamato unlocked CoC when They were tied,

Again, i'm not asking for what reason will Sanji unlock it,
I'm asking what stopped him all this time from realizing He was born with it?
And no need to use Zoro, just tell me about Sanji alone, what's his Story with CoC?

Actually if you wanna compare between Zoro & Sanji,
Zoro's desire for ultimate offence eventually led to him being called King of Hell in Onigashima,
Sanji's desire to endure & protect others eventually led to him being called Warrior of Science in Onigashima,
So not only Oda could have given Sanji CoC at same time as Zoro, but He also gave him an Epithet unrelated to CoC,
Click to expand...
It's not that deep or complicated. Sanji will get it because Oda wants to give it to him now. Oda doesn’t necessarily plan everything ahead, and he doesn’t always care about logic.

Is it logical to unconsciously suddenly use Conqueror’s Haki out of nowhere, then unlock the advanced version minutes later just because of a flashback? No. But it happened anyway.

Same with Sanji , if Oda decides it's time, it's happening, whether it makes sense or not.

You're overanalyzing the epithets too. They’re just flashy titles meant to sound cool, not some deep foreshadowing blueprint.
 
Salah WG

Salah WG

‎
#7
#7
Zolo fanboy said:
It's not that deep or complicated. Sanji will get it because Oda wants to give it to him now. Oda doesn’t necessarily plan everything ahead, and he doesn’t always care about logic.

Is it logical to unconsciously suddenly use Conqueror’s Haki out of nowhere, then unlock the advanced version minutes later just because of a flashback? No. But it happened anyway.

Same with Sanji , if Oda decides it's time, it's happening, whether it makes sense or not.

You're overanalyzing the epithets too. They’re just flashy titles meant to sound cool, not some deep foreshadowing blueprint.
Click to expand...
It's not about whether Oda uses Logic or not,
But discussion cannot be made if we don't assume these Chapters were written based on a logic filter from many Scenarios that He could have wrote,

If We take logic from the equation, then it's pointless to try & talk about anything story related,
I could also say that Oda isn't logical, and He won't give Sanji CoC regardless of whatever arguments there are that support otherwise,

Zoro unlocking advanced version of CoC isn't contradictory at all, He isn't some guy who entered Grand Line with 0 training/experience, He trained under WGS for 2 Years, He is implied to have excellent CoA Mastery, the only thing that stood between him & unlocking Adv. CoC was not knowing that He has CoC, that's all

Luffy too, when did He unlock Adv. CoC? It was the moment He learned that CoC can be coated same as CoA,
So Zoro & Luffy didn't lack training or power level to unlock Adv. CoC, they simply lacked knowledge of it's existence,
As soon as that was solved, Adv. CoC was instantly in their pocket,

As for the Epithets, i said nothing about foreshadowing, the title of King of Hell came "After" Zoro unlocked CoC, so it's foreshadowing nothing, what i questioned instead was why didn't just Oda give Sanji CoC in Onigashima too & be done with it, and made sure to give him his new epithet despite not unlocking CoC yet,
 
Boiroy

Boiroy

‎
#8
#8
Sanji getting coc isn't confirmed either, it's still 50-50
Other than being of royal blood n no 3 of PK, I don't think there's any reason for him to get coc.
He's like pussy kind of character.
 
Z

Zolo fanboy

‎
#9
#9
Salah WG said:
It's not about whether Oda uses Logic or not,
But discussion cannot be made if we don't assume these Chapters were written based on a logic filter from many Scenarios that He could have wrote,

If We take logic from the equation, then it's pointless to try & talk about anything story related,
I could also say that Oda isn't logical, and He won't give Sanji CoC regardless of whatever arguments there are that support otherwise,

Zoro unlocking advanced version of CoC isn't contradictory at all, He isn't some guy who entered Grand Line with 0 training/experience, He trained under WGS for 2 Years, He is implied to have excellent CoA Mastery, the only thing that stood between him & unlocking Adv. CoC was not knowing that He has CoC, that's all

Luffy too, when did He unlock Adv. CoC? It was the moment He learned that CoC can be coated same as CoA,
So Zoro & Luffy didn't lack training or power level to unlock Adv. CoC, they simply lacked knowledge of it's existence,
As soon as that was solved, Adv. CoC was instantly in their pocket,

As for the Epithets, i said nothing about foreshadowing, the title of King of Hell came "After" Zoro unlocked CoC, so it's foreshadowing nothing, what i questioned instead was why didn't just Oda give Sanji CoC in Onigashima too & be done with it, and made sure to give him his new epithet despite not unlocking CoC yet,
Click to expand...
The problem is, you’re not using logic , what you’re saying isn’t backed up by anything.

For example, you mentioned why Oda didn’t give Sanji Conqueror’s Haki in the same arc he gave it to Zoro. How is that an argument? Who said Zoro and Sanji must receive everything at the same time? You’re basing this logic on nothing. There’s no established rule that they must develop in parallel or mirror each other in power-ups. You’re treating a personal assumption as if it’s canon logic.

Another example is the epithets. You’re using the different epithets as an argument, again based on absolutely nothing. Luffy’s epithet is “Straw Hat” it has nothing to do with conquering. Usopp’s is literally “God.” That epithet alone proves how meaningless that argument.

And by the way, “King of Hell” and “Warrior of Science” aren’t even epithets. No one actually calls them that. Their real epi are “Pirate Hunter” and “Black Leg” .

Now let’s talk about Zoro unlocking Advanced Conqueror’s Haki. That was complete nonsense. And unlike you, I’ll actually base my argument on something real. Luffy, the main character, needed a long time just to grasp the basics of Conqueror’s Haki And along time to get the Advanced version. So explain to me how Zoro, in the middle of a single arc, suddenly jumps from “I didn’t even know I had basic Conqueror ” to “I’m coating my attacks with Advanced Conqueror’s.” That’s not progression , that’s just plot convenience. It’s a blatant shortcut.

But it happened because Oda simply wanted it to happen. He wan To give zoro a power up , so he gave it to him. And that’s fine , it’s a story. But let’s not pretend there’s solid logic behind it. The same thing will happen with Sanji. He’ll go from having no Conqueror’s Haki to awakening it, and unlocking the advanced form in an even shorter time than Luffy did.

Is it logical? No. But it will happen.
 
matt245

matt245

‎
#11
#11
Lanji lost any realistic CoC chance the moment he told Zoro to abandon his dreams. And Oda doubled down when Sanji himself took a huge shit when BM threatened him.
Attacking your captain/crewmate instead of fighting the enemy is something that a conqueror would never do. Can you imagine Roger actively trying to beat the shit out of Rayleigh or vice versa? Or WB attacking Marco. Kaido attacking King... You get my point. That retard actively distrusted both himself and his crew, that's not the attitude of a conqueror and will never be.

Luffy awakened ACoC in Wano, Zoro unlocked both CoC and ACoC in Wano too. Oda could've easily made Sanji awaken at least base CoC alongside the other two. Instead, he had him scream for Robin's help. There's level to this shit
 
Salah WG

Salah WG

‎
#12
#12
Zolo fanboy said:
The problem is, you’re not using logic , what you’re saying isn’t backed up by anything.

For example, you mentioned why Oda didn’t give Sanji Conqueror’s Haki in the same arc he gave it to Zoro. How is that an argument? Who said Zoro and Sanji must receive everything at the same time? You’re basing this logic on nothing. There’s no established rule that they must develop in parallel or mirror each other in power-ups. You’re treating a personal assumption as if it’s canon logic.

Another example is the epithets. You’re using the different epithets as an argument, again based on absolutely nothing. Luffy’s epithet is “Straw Hat” it has nothing to do with conquering. Usopp’s is literally “God.” That epithet alone proves how meaningless that argument.

And by the way, “King of Hell” and “Warrior of Science” aren’t even epithets. No one actually calls them that. Their real epi are “Pirate Hunter” and “Black Leg” .

Now let’s talk about Zoro unlocking Advanced Conqueror’s Haki. That was complete nonsense. And unlike you, I’ll actually base my argument on something real. Luffy, the main character, needed a long time just to grasp the basics of Conqueror’s Haki And along time to get the Advanced version. So explain to me how Zoro, in the middle of a single arc, suddenly jumps from “I didn’t even know I had basic Conqueror ” to “I’m coating my attacks with Advanced Conqueror’s.” That’s not progression , that’s just plot convenience. It’s a blatant shortcut.

But it happened because Oda simply wanted it to happen. He wan To give zoro a power up , so he gave it to him. And that’s fine , it’s a story. But let’s not pretend there’s solid logic behind it. The same thing will happen with Sanji. He’ll go from having no Conqueror’s Haki to awakening it, and unlocking the advanced form in an even shorter time than Luffy did.

Is it logical? No. But it will happen.
Click to expand...
You're arguing with me by focusing on my reply to his answer, not my actual opinion on Sanji alone,
No need to take things out of context, i didn't use Epithets or timing of Zoro's CoC as argument in my first Answer to this thread,
I only mentioned it later to show the flaw in comparing between them directly,

It was him who mentioned parallel between Zoro & Sanji, to which i added that argument which is based on his own reasoning to prove that Oda doesn't necessarily need to mirror everything, so if you wanna say that "Nothing suggests Zoro & Sanji must receive everything in similar fashion or in parallel" then argue with him, not me,

Regarding Zoro unlocking Adv. CoC, if you want to treat it as random & someone with Zoro's Training shouldn't grasp the principals of Adv. CoC as soon as he learns he has CoC, then that's fine, we can agree to disagree, but as we just established above, Sanji doesn't necessarily need to receive same treatment,

If Zoro was magically powered-up without any logic, i want Sanji to instead have a scientific & logical reason to how He unlocks CoC, if no such explanation can be suggested, then expectations for Sanji's CoC are same as any other Character
 
Z

Zolo fanboy

‎
#13
#13
Salah WG said:
You're arguing with me by focusing on my reply to his answer, not my actual opinion on Sanji alone,
No need to take things out of context, i didn't use Epithets or timing of Zoro's CoC as argument in my first Answer to this thread,
I only mentioned it later to show the flaw in comparing between them directly,

It was him who mentioned parallel between Zoro & Sanji, to which i added that argument which is based on his own reasoning to prove that Oda doesn't necessarily need to mirror everything, so if you wanna say that "Nothing suggests Zoro & Sanji must receive everything in similar fashion or in parallel" then argue with him, not me,

Regarding Zoro unlocking Adv. CoC, if you want to treat it as random & someone with Zoro's Training shouldn't grasp the principals of Adv. CoC as soon as he learns he has CoC, then that's fine, we can agree to disagree, but as we just established above, Sanji doesn't necessarily need to receive same treatment,

If Zoro was magically powered-up without any logic, i want Sanji to instead have a scientific & logical reason to how He unlocks CoC, if no such explanation can be suggested, then expectations for Sanji's CoC are same as any other Character
Click to expand...
You’re the one who brought Zoro into this, not him.
And honestly, his whole bit about the sword and the shield actually kinda made sense Or at least an interesting idea for sure.
Let’s be real: Conqueror’s Haki has basically become the baseline requirement to be considered top-tier, especially if you don’t have a busted Devil Fruit. It’s not about logic anymore. If a character is important enough, they’re going to have it , period.

Sanji, Coby, Dragon, Sabo, Garling Akainu, etc., they’re all getting it sooner or later, whether it’s explained or not. That’s just how the story’s evolved. Power creep is real, and the bar keeps getting raised.

At this point, if you’re aiming for top-tier status in One Piece, you either have an insane Devil Fruit, busted Haki, or both. There’s no in-between anymore. So yeah, pulling Conqueror’s Haki out of nowhere? That’s just part of the game now.
 
Rumble

Rumble

‎
#14
#14
Zolo fanboy said:
The problem is, you’re not using logic , what you’re saying isn’t backed up by anything.

For example, you mentioned why Oda didn’t give Sanji Conqueror’s Haki in the same arc he gave it to Zoro. How is that an argument? Who said Zoro and Sanji must receive everything at the same time? You’re basing this logic on nothing. There’s no established rule that they must develop in parallel or mirror each other in power-ups. You’re treating a personal assumption as if it’s canon logic.

Another example is the epithets. You’re using the different epithets as an argument, again based on absolutely nothing. Luffy’s epithet is “Straw Hat” it has nothing to do with conquering. Usopp’s is literally “God.” That epithet alone proves how meaningless that argument.

And by the way, “King of Hell” and “Warrior of Science” aren’t even epithets. No one actually calls them that. Their real epi are “Pirate Hunter” and “Black Leg” .

Now let’s talk about Zoro unlocking Advanced Conqueror’s Haki. That was complete nonsense. And unlike you, I’ll actually base my argument on something real. Luffy, the main character, needed a long time just to grasp the basics of Conqueror’s Haki And along time to get the Advanced version. So explain to me how Zoro, in the middle of a single arc, suddenly jumps from “I didn’t even know I had basic Conqueror ” to “I’m coating my attacks with Advanced Conqueror’s.” That’s not progression , that’s just plot convenience. It’s a blatant shortcut.

But it happened because Oda simply wanted it to happen. He wan To give zoro a power up , so he gave it to him. And that’s fine , it’s a story. But let’s not pretend there’s solid logic behind it. The same thing will happen with Sanji. He’ll go from having no Conqueror’s Haki to awakening it, and unlocking the advanced form in an even shorter time than Luffy did.

Is it logical? No. But it will happen.
Click to expand...
Torched. :suresure:
 
Salah WG

Salah WG

‎
#15
#15
Zolo fanboy said:
You’re the one who brought Zoro into this, not him.
And honestly, his whole bit about the sword and the shield actually kinda made sense Or at least an interesting idea for sure.
Let’s be real: Conqueror’s Haki has basically become the baseline requirement to be considered top-tier, especially if you don’t have a busted Devil Fruit. It’s not about logic anymore. If a character is important enough, they’re going to have it , period.

Sanji, Coby, Dragon, Sabo, Garling Akainu, etc., they’re all getting it sooner or later, whether it’s explained or not. That’s just how the story’s evolved. Power creep is real, and the bar keeps getting raised.

At this point, if you’re aiming for top-tier status in One Piece, you either have an insane Devil Fruit, busted Haki, or both. There’s no in-between anymore. So yeah, pulling Conqueror’s Haki out of nowhere? That’s just part of the game now.
Click to expand...
This is how i summarized my position

Salah WG said:
To clarify, i'm not saying Sanji won't get CoC, and i believe Usopp too will get it, and i'm not sure about Rest of Crew,
But i'm asking, what kind of Theory you have on why Sanji didn't figure out yet that He has CoC?
Click to expand...
If you believe Sanji will randomly get it without any Explanation or at least some Enma-Like Plot Device to force him to search for CoC, then that's your opinion, i don't mind at all, it simply doesn't answer my question,

I'm wondering what Theories people have about Sanji, that's all,
Not that it's necessary for an answer to exist to justify what an Author does with their Story, We already know that,
 
Wh1p

Wh1p

‎
#16
#16
matt245 said:
Lanji lost any realistic CoC chance the moment he told Zoro to abandon his dreams. And Oda doubled down when Sanji himself took a huge shit when BM threatened him.
Attacking your captain/crewmate instead of fighting the enemy is something that a conqueror would never do. Can you imagine Roger actively trying to beat the shit out of Rayleigh or vice versa? Or WB attacking Marco. Kaido attacking King... You get my point. That retard actively distrusted both himself and his crew, that's not the attitude of a conqueror and will never be.

Luffy awakened ACoC in Wano, Zoro unlocked both CoC and ACoC in Wano too. Oda could've easily made Sanji awaken at least base CoC alongside the other two. Instead, he had him scream for Robin's help. There's level to this shit
Click to expand...
Will you drop OP when the inevitable comes true?
 
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