Current Events Rate The Oden Flashback

[Monkey D Theories]

8/10. The only plot hole I don’t get is why oden walked into the boiling oil if he wasn’t a DF user, meaning he wouldn’t have been weakened by the sea stone.
I guess he realized that he would have been killed either way and that it’d be better for him to die and become a legend that would inspire wano and the scabbards.

apart from that it was tbh pretty entertaining.

 

[Lion of Olympus]

1/10
This flashback had a ton of potential. Unfortunately what Oda decided to give us was an Oden Wank compilation, trying way too hard to make Oden look cool and to make us like him instead of it being natural. The flashback completely went to shit toward the last couple of chapters. Oden believing Kaido and Orochi's "promise", Toki being useless, and don't get me started on Oden vs Kaido lol. The only reason I'm even giving it a 1 is because Oden finally died. It's a shame that WB and Roger showing up overshadowed our flashback main character lol

 

[Haoshoku]

I for one can keep my emotions out of my posts, if I want to.

Unfortunately you as moderator seemingly can't do that, so I will be blunt, too.

Resorting to Ad Hominems now huh there was nothing emotional about the post, I was simply posting my thoughts on how you brushed aside Toki to try and justify the rating, which seems to be case. Just cuz I’m a mod doesn’t mean I can’t participate in a discussion like everyone else G lmao.

Next time I need to give you a lesson on how to be a moderator, I will also make it public and not just school you via DM, after you texted me.

Damn I really got schooled just because I decided not to give a response at that moment, was that how “schooling” worked? I thought it had to involve an actual back and forth, but guess not I got schooled regardless.

On that note, if you want a response that bad to your complaints it will be given shortly, I actually went out of my way to offer such a chance after things have already been made clear with you in the past by the other mods. Any more attempt to continue this will result in a threadban btw, so you’ve been warned.

But that isn’t here nor there, you got an actual response dedicated towards the discussion?

As for your long nonsensical text: I have said several times that I absolutely expect Oda to fully reveal Toki and her motives later on.

That’s a poor argument, Oda had multiple opportunities with Toki in this flashback yet most of her panel time involved her being a background character or tending to her children. Again you specifically made it seem like she did anything significant to begin with by saying “a bit more”, which is laughable to even suggest much less state.

 

[dirtyLarry]

Resorting to Ad Hominems now huh there was nothing emotional about the post, I was simply posting my thoughts on how you brushed aside Toki to try and justify the rating, which seems to be case. Just cuz I’m a mod doesn’t mean I can’t participate in a discussion like everyone else G lmao.

Damn I really got schooled just because I decided not to give a response at that moment, was that how “schooling” worked? I thought it had to involve an actual back and forth, but guess not I got schooled regardless.

On that note, if you want a response that bad to your complaints it will be given shortly, I actually went out of my way to offer such a chance after things have already been made clear with you in the past by the other mods. Any more attempt to continue this will result in a threadban btw, so you’ve been warned.

But that isn’t here nor there, you got an actual response dedicated towards the discussion?

That’s a poor argument, Oda had multiple opportunities with Toki in this flashback yet most of her panel time involved her being a background character or tending to her children. Again you specifically made it seem like she did anything significant to begin with by saying “a bit more”, which is laughable to even suggest much less state.

Seems like I hit the sweet spot. A desperate emoji after the first sentence is always like verbally waving the white flag.

You're obviously grasping at straws again, but I will answer you one last time.

I think Oda could've done a bit more with Toki other than introducing her and giving us only the most basic/necessary information concerning her motive and relationships. If all of this is revealed later on, I will be totally fine with it, although I still think Oda could've already revealed a bit more now.

As for your threats: You really think anyone takes you seriously on that matter?
Come on ban me. Will be quite telling when you let all other kind of baiting and trolling by your buddies unsanctioned and ban somebody that YOU actually first attacked over a post you disagreed with.

 

[Blackbeard]

The fact that you prefaced your post with this ^

And ended up saying this ^ showcases you either a) have absolutely no idea what the hell you are talking about
or
b)trying to really hard to justify the 8-9/10 rating you gave this flashback.

A lot of things have been said about Oden and rightfully so, for one dude kept making nonsensical promises with Orochi/Kaido despite those two continuing to laugh it off and betray him anyways. But for you to brush off Toki as only needing “a bit more” to be fleshed out despite that being one of the most glaring issues if not the most glaring issue of the flashback is ludicrous.

Toki was basically a character looming in the background for the majority of this flashback, tending to her children on the Moby Dick and contributing absolutely nothing else worth of note to the narrative. Got a lame integration into the flashback and proved to be nothing different than your typical OP female character despite being introduced to be someone from the Void Century.

You’d expect Oda to use that as an opportunity to give us a window into the Void Century lore, yet not only did we not get anything of the sort...Toki just failed miserably to meet the most basic expectations for her character to begin with, when her only notable and defining character moment involved getting orders from Oden, that prophecy shit that seemed to be hers wasn’t even from her despite everyone expecting so, which caps off the biggest letdown that was Toki.
It gets even worse when that shit is seemingly about to be offpaneled. You could have removed the VC lore and nothing would have changed with her character.

I honestly do not know what Oda was thinking when he came up with a character like Toki. I also do not know what you were thinking when you said she only needed “a bit more” implying that she had done anything significant in this flashback to begin with.

Amatsuki Toki، her importance and the consequences of her time traveling is linked to the biggest plot in the series ( Great Kingdom and the Void Century ) which is implied to be revealed near EoS, she didn't fail miserably as a character just because she was looming in the background and didn't get the spotlight during the flashback, when we get a dedicated flashback for the Ancient Kingdom ( probably revealing the Amatsuki/other Wano big families mentioned ) you will realize that the end of the Oden flashback obviously doesn't mean she won't contribute to the story later. as Kingslayer said, the lore takes time to explore the plot, and how we perceive characters heavily depends on that.

 

[Homelander]

Toki is from void century. Have you guys forgotten this info ??? Of course we will get to know her but oda is def not using her now and she is not useless.

 

[Garp the Fist]

Eh, I'm not sure the flashback is over. The narration about "the story hurtles to the present day" could just be like the pre-warning we got of the hour of legends, and is talking about how next chapter the focus is now no longer on Oden, but on the Red Scabbards and Toki sending them to the present day.

Would be a bit weird to end the flashback here when chances are we'll just be going back to it some time later on. Unless Toki's death (by the traitor?) is a major spoiler and Oda's waiting until later to reveal it.

 

[Den_Den_Mushi]

I think most people here are missing the point.

We know that Toki is important and the Void Century isn't something that Oda wants to reveal just yet. Fine. The problem is that does not justify her utter lack of characterisation beyond being Oden's baby mama. A character shouldn't be just a walking lore dump, they need to stand on their own as characters even when you remove their titles and accolades. For example, who is Whitebeard outside the World's Strongest Man? He's a gruff, fatherly old man that values family, loyalty and honour. Whitebeard has clearly defined relationships with Jinbe and his crew, and it's incredibly easy to see why they adore him. I don't know why Toki likes Oden, I don't know what her relationship is with her children beyond superficial interactions and I don't know how she feels about the fact that everyone she's ever known is dead. She's pretty much a blank slate and that's unacceptable.

If you create a posthumous character, you need to painstakingly craft a bond between them and the audience to make their passing all the more heartwrenching. Toki has no such bond with the audience, we barely see her bond with Oden (and have no clue what it's even based on) and if she dropped dead in the first page of the next chapter, I would feel nothing at all. Even if Toki gets her own flashback and it's mind-blowingly incredible, it does not justify sidelining her through the events that should've solidified who she is and what she means to Oden, her children and the people of Wano.

 

[Homelander]

The fact that you prefaced your post with this ^

And ended up saying this ^ showcases you either a) have absolutely no idea what the hell you are talking about
or
b)trying to really hard to justify the 8-9/10 rating you gave this flashback.

A lot of things have been said about Oden and rightfully so, for one dude kept making nonsensical promises with Orochi/Kaido despite those two continuing to laugh it off and betray him anyways. But for you to brush off Toki as only needing “a bit more” to be fleshed out despite that being one of the most glaring issues if not the most glaring issue of the flashback is ludicrous.

Toki was basically a character looming in the background for the majority of this flashback, tending to her children on the Moby Dick and contributing absolutely nothing else worth of note to the narrative. Got a lame integration into the flashback and proved to be nothing different than your typical OP female character despite being introduced to be someone from the Void Century.

You’d expect Oda to use that as an opportunity to give us a window into the Void Century lore, yet not only did we not get anything of the sort...Toki just failed miserably to meet the most basic expectations for her character to begin with, when her only notable and defining character moment involved getting orders from Oden, that prophecy shit that seemed to be hers wasn’t even from her despite everyone expecting so, which caps off the biggest letdown that was Toki.
It gets even worse when that shit is seemingly about to be offpaneled. You could have removed the VC lore and nothing would have changed with her character.

I honestly do not know what Oda was thinking when he came up with a character like Toki. I also do not know what you were thinking when you said she only needed “a bit more” implying that she had done anything significant in this flashback to begin with.

i would say this flashback was more on oden's journey. Other protagonist like toki had smaller role in this because void century is an important arc so i dont expect it covers in this flashback.

Now oda knows this toki's past has more to do with past than present . Void century topic takes backseat for now because oda does not want to reveal everything in his basket we absolutely cannot judge by this standard of flashback.

Toki really wanted oden to continue the laugh tale journey and she was their on roger's journey and her mission was to search for wano we can guess there are hidden info which are to be covered. Lot of plot can be convered regarding toki btw we are judging her out to early my man.

 

[dirtyLarry]

I think most people here are missing the point.

We know that Toki is important and the Void Century isn't something that Oda wants to reveal just yet. Fine. The problem is that does not justify her utter lack of characterisation beyond being Oden's baby mama. A character shouldn't be just a walking lore dump, they need to stand on their own as characters even when you remove their titles and accolades. For example, who is Whitebeard outside the World's Strongest Man? He's a gruff, fatherly old man that values family, loyalty and honour. Whitebeard has clearly defined relationships with Jinbe and his crew, and it's incredibly easy to see why they adore him. I don't know why Toki likes Oden, I don't know what her relationship is with her children beyond superficial interactions and I don't know how she feels about the fact that everyone she's ever known is dead. She's pretty much a blank slate and that's unacceptable.

If you create a posthumous character, you need to painstakingly craft a bond between them and the audience to make their passing all the more heartwrenching. Toki has no such bond with the audience, we barely see her bond with Oden (and have no clue what it's even based on) and if she dropped dead in the first page of the next chapter, I would feel nothing at all. Even if Toki gets her own flashback and it's mind-blowingly incredible, it does not justify sidelining her through the events that should've solidified who she is and what she means to Oden, her children and the people of Wano.

Well, I can understand where you're coming from.
I don't think it's a problem from a writing perspective though.
Robin was as mysterious and shady as it can get before Enies Lobby and here she had already been a SH member (!) for almost 150 chapters.
It still worked brilliantly.
In Toki's case she isn't even a main character and this flashback wasn't about her, her relationship with Oden or the void century in detail. Oda made this much clear.
Toki's role is going to be prominent in the future and by the time we know everything about her, I'm pretty sure very few will complain that she was only a side-character in a backstory about Oden.

 

[Eustass]

Reading it week for week i give like a 6 or 7. While i do understand people are pissed at Oden's character, Orochi was pretty well written.

It had some problems tho, as everybody already pointed out

The thing Im most mad about is :why couldnt he give some pannels to Moriah & Kaido, and some more WB vs Roger Pirates,rayleigh for fuck sake man not even a bit of action to him. I would BE happy with that as i dont think Oden is as bad as people say.

Post automatically merged: Feb 22, 2020

And Im pretty sure Toki's story not ended yet

 

[dirtyLarry]

Reading it week for week i give like a 6 or 7. While i do understand people are pissed at Oden's character, Orochi was pretty well written.

It had some problems tho, as everybody already pointed out

The thing Im most mad about is :why couldnt he give some pannels to Moriah & Kaido, and some more WB vs Roger Pirates,rayleigh for fuck sake man not even a bit of action to him. I would BE happy with that as i dont think Oden is as bad as people say.

Post automatically merged: Feb 22, 2020

And Im pretty sure Toki's story not ended yet

The guys that vocally trash Oden are a tiny minority on this particular forum. Looking around on other forums or social media, the vast majority celebrates Oden as a character.

 

[Topi Jerami]

Now that there are more new / returning members like @Cinera @ShishioIsBack @BigChungus2018 @Zoro D Goat etc

Wanna see you guys' essays on this one.

 

[SULIEN]

It’s a very mediocre flashback. I enjoyed the WB/Roger parts but everything before and after that was a snoozefest.

 

[Finalbeta]

It’s a very mediocre flashback. I enjoyed the WB/Roger parts but everything before and after that was a snoozefest.

Welcome man. Same feeling exceprt for the boiling part which was nice for the boiling itself.

 

[Orojackson Refugee]

When it's one-on-one, always bet on kaido to hold hostage of your family

 

[Yoshioka Seijuro]

10/7.

It was really nice to see Whitebeard and Roger in these episodes. But there were a few inconsistencies, which was annoying.

 

[PirateKingDrew]

I enjoyed it, it did everything it needed too.

Introduced us to Oden, saw hwe he became a Daimyo and gathered the Akazaya 9, saw his journey with Whitebeard and then Roger and finally his death.

At 14 chapters long its the longest flashback in the history of the series so skipping the majority of the Kaido fight was fine with me because I dont want all his abilities and moves spoiled before he fights Luffy, we saw what we needed to see.
The hate on Toki not revealing anything is stupid too, we are not finding out a thing about the void century until the crew does and that will be on Laugh Tale.

It's probably the best flashback in the series imo.

 

[beardweird]

Too long, too little or too short fights although there was plenty of opportunity, some potentially good world history but not really informative, some lame history of Roger's journey which I can't even remember. Still some memorable appearances of Whitebeard and Roger, an interesting sword feat by Oden, an interesting young Kaido power level (plenty strong, but still a little sloppy or quickly exhausted), an interesting variation on a samurai honour code in Oden (nothing new or very surprising btw.), a memorable ending feat making for a nice little legend. However still way too long, a little boring, some typical Oda frustrations, 6.5.

 

[Krusher1357]

Honestly 10 out of fucking 10
(+)
•Finally getting oden in his sodding glory.
•Roger pirates and whitebeard pirates
•Wrapped up a lot of hints and sneaky details that seemingly weren't going to get answers
• Joy boy spooks
• confirmation denjiro was kyoshiro (ill take that W)
• Redemption for the crap that the scabbards were previously represented as

(-)
• No explanation for Toki's apparent relevance