Riboku is an Absolute Menace - Qin’s Northern Zhao Campaign Review

[Cichy]

Ouki predicted the existence of another Zhao army, without having anything to go off by. No one knew except chosou, and Riboku had a blockade on all info. Yet ouki predicted this other army. Ouki was brighter than Riboku here.

That is not true.

He predicted it based on Chousou's movements and the terrain he fell back to. That is why I'm saying those situations are not comperable. Because in Sai there was nothing to read that would suggest incoming ambush.

Nah, Kanki ambushing Riboku was not plot, some other Riboku cuck was arguing the same shit, Riboku was underrating Kanki, he was talking shit about how he doesn't have any scheme left up his sleeve, how all he can do is sneak moves, about how he's a sitting duck waiting to be killed. He got humbled because he overestimated himself and underestimated Kanki. But Riboku surviving Kanki's assault is full of plot armor. Zeno was a few men away from Riboku.. yet hara forgets he's even there until reinforcement come and then a couple of arrows are enough to push him back a good distance. Kanki instead of finishing off Riboku starts having a podcast conversing with Riboku when he knows time is short, Kaine having advCoO all of a sudden etc. All of this is clear P.I.S, just like Ouki stopping mid-blow to finish off houken, if he just completes his swing, houken is dead and Ouki can get out alive from his predicament easily. And Riboku's plan would've failed. But plot and houken's strength were the ones that actually killed ouki.

Riboku personally took out Shuma and rallied his bodyguards, he was also careful enough to set up his formation the way to get reinforcements quickly. I'm sorry, but all I see here are excuses of Kanki's failure. Kanki not being able to finish the job in time means his ambush just wasnt good enough to succeed plus the wound to the head still wasnt enough to take Riboku out of action, since he just took new blade and continued to fight.

It had nothing to do with Riboku underastimating Kanki. In fact you can argue he overestimated him, since he incorrectly assumed Kanki can get his hands of civilians.

The lost of atsuyo is big, it's become a base for Qin to attack the Northern Zhao, it's a big city, Zhao just lost the whole southern part and he loses atsuyo aswell. That's a huge L, His goal first and foremost is to protect Zhao not kill kanki. 1/2 of Zhao have been taken by Qin. He's gotten L's continuously, his 1 W came with cost of another L. Not impressive, he hasn't retained one territory back from Qin. Setting up traps here and there while losing on massive territory is not a W.

He screwed over Qin's plan to conquer Zhao in 3 years. Qin is on a time limit for their conquest of China and if they wont make it then they have to give up on their dreams of unification. The defeat in the prievious invasion already gave them a massive delay which they could not afford. Plus thanks to that Chu was able to take some of their land. Riboku even said himself that the wars to come will be costly for Zhao, but as long as he can chip down Qin's resources enough then the entire thing will backfire on Qin.

Houken is a 3GH, he killed Ouki, Duke and Gekishin. He's been the most impressive Commander amongst Zhao. He's not a bodyguard under Riboku, his credit is his own. Riboku doesn't automatically get Houken's credit.
Gaimou is a general that uses brawn and strength alone, he has some strategist to do the planning, doesn't take away from his credit.

Shin and Ten have the same relationship on some occasion. Riboku is a glorified ten.
While houken is like shin.

The difference is that both Shin and Gaimou can command an army even without the help of their respective strategist. Houken is incapable of doing that. So this whole comparison doesn't make sense.

 

[Seraphim Croc]

That is not true.

He predicted it based on Chousou's movements and the terrain he fell back to. That is why I'm saying those situations are not comperable. Because in Sai there was nothing to read that would suggest incoming ambush.

Riboku personally took out Shuma and rallied his bodyguards, he was also careful enough to set up his formation the way to get reinforcements quickly. I'm sorry, but all I see here are excuses of Kanki's failure. Kanki not being able to finish the job in time means his ambush just wasnt good enough to succeed plus the wound to the head still wasnt enough to take Riboku out of action, since he just took new blade and continued to fight.

It had nothing to do with Riboku underastimating Kanki. In fact you can argue he overestimated him, since he incorrectly assumed Kanki can get his hands of civilians.


He screwed over Qin's plan to conquer Zhao in 3 years. Qin is on a time limit for their conquest of China and if they wont make it then they have to give up on their dreams of unification. The defeat in the prievious invasion already gave them a massive delay which they could not afford. Plus thanks to that Chu was able to take some of their land. Riboku even said himself that the wars to come will be costly for Zhao, but as long as he can chip down Qin's resources enough then the entire thing will backfire on Qin.

The difference is that both Shin and Gaimou can command an army even without the help of their respective strategist. Houken is incapable of doing that. So this whole comparison doesn't make sense.

yet Riboku didn't predict Sai was stalling him until the arrival of reinforcements. Plus once yotanwa arrived he had nothing up his sleeve and scurried away. What a sorry excuse, he took a huge L here make no mistake about it.
Ouki bested Riboku here. He read something he had no clue about, while Riboku failed.

No, he was getting beat by shuma, until kaine came to his aid and they double teamed him, Riboku is just weak.

Zeno was a few men away, hara forgets his existence until reinforcement arrives, and then a couple of arrows push him back a good distance. Zeno who's hyped to be on Moubu's level, he should've bashed those 4/5 men between him and riboku and it'll be game over. But Plot intervened. Nothing logical can explain this other than PIS. Kanki, after slicing Riboku's head and sword in half, instead if attacking him and finishing him off he starts a podcast talking about irrelevant shit, Kanki who knows how valuable time is? This is clear PIS aswell. And don't let me start on kaine, AdvCoO feats on par with katakuri. Plot armor all over the place!!

He did underestimate Kanki, he admits that later on multiple times. Re-read the manga bro.. you're relying on headcanon and Riboku cuckery way too much here...
Riboku thought Kanki was done for when he was encircled... but Kanki in his extremely dire position turned the tables on riboku and it was the later who was in an extremely dire situation where he was so close to dying.


He already lost half his country, so what if he won't be completely annihilated within 3 years, that is not by any means a W for Riboku. Wtf are you Riboku cucks smoking? He's still losing terribly, he has the numerical advantage, the territorial advantage and he's getting cooked, losing territory right and left.


Houken is a certified member of the 3GH, his credit is for himself, not for Riboku to claim. The fact that he doesn't give two shits about strategy dowsnt mean anything... he has his brute strength which compensates for that completely.

Post automatically merged: Oct 9, 2023

Also, not only are you taking days to reply, you're not even addressing all of my points.

"Atleast he showed top notch strategy and wits and top tier strength and doesn't take credit of other peer generals as his own. Renpa lost to mogou, but we all know who was more impressive, Renpa. That was the same, ouki impressed more than Riboku. To take him out, 2 if the 3GH were needed and 2 Zhao armies and a bit of plot help aswell. He died, but he was the most impressive that war."

This is the difference between Ouki and Riboku which you have chose to ignore.

 

[Cichy]

yet Riboku didn't predict Sai was stalling him until the arrival of reinforcements. Plus once yotanwa arrived he had nothing up his sleeve and scurried away. What a sorry excuse, he took a huge L here make no mistake about it.

I'm tired of repeating the same arguements over and over again only for you to ignore it. The manga made it clear that Ouki only predicted sneak attack based one pre-existing premise. The thing that was not present in Sai. Which is why Ouki wouldn't predict the attack in Sai either. Deal with it. Ouki wouldn't be able to save the Sai situation.

Ouki bested Riboku here.

Ouki himself admitted he was bested by Riboku. You are argueing against the manga, not me.

Ouki's word > Your opinion.

No, he was getting beat by shuma, until kaine came to his aid and they double teamed him, Riboku is just weak.

He was deflecting Shuma's attacks on his own and was able to take him out with Kaine playing a distraction. If he was weak then he would be dead in this situation. In fact we know he can at least keep up with post-Sanyou Shin due to their clash. Hara also gave him 91 in strength which is enough to approach the level of martial beasts and survive a lot of situations that would be mortal for pure strategists.

Zeno was a few men away, hara forgets his existence until reinforcement arrives, and then a couple of arrows push him back a good distance. Zeno who's hyped to be on Moubu's level, he should've bashed those 4/5 men between him and riboku and it'll be game over. But Plot intervened. Nothing logical can explain this other than PIS. Kanki, after slicing Riboku's head and sword in half, instead if attacking him and finishing him off he starts a podcast talking about irrelevant shit, Kanki who knows how valuable time is? This is clear PIS aswell. And don't let me start on kaine, AdvCoO feats on par with katakuri. Plot armor all over the place!!

Zenou was full of arrows all over his body and fatigued. He is not Moubu level in overall combat ability, he is simply a vassal of one of 6GG. There is a limit of how much he can endure. Him not being able to break through due to several wounds, his clan being nearly wiped out and Bafuuji standing in his way if perfectly justifiable explenation.

Even if Kanki attacked again, Riboku was still capable of defending himself with his own combat abilities + high morale of his bodyguards.

Riboku thought Kanki was done for when he was encircled... but Kanki in his extremely dire position turned the tables on riboku and it was the later who was in an extremely dire situation where he was so close to dying.

He was able to take Riboku off guard, but it wasn't enough to overcome his preperations. "Almost" doing something is just not enough.

He already lost half his country, so what if he won't be completely annihilated within 3 years, that is not by any means a W for Riboku. Wtf are you Riboku cucks smoking? He's still losing terribly, he has the numerical advantage, the territorial advantage and he's getting cooked, losing territory right and left.

The man was banished for almost 2 years and yet after his return he was able to design a successful counterattack when the entire state was at the brink of falling. You can't possibly blaim him for stupid decisions of politicians, Kochou's failure and it's aftermath.

Houken is a certified member of the 3GH, his credit is for himself, not for Riboku to claim. The fact that he doesn't give two shits about strategy dowsnt mean anything... he has his brute strength which compensates for that completely.

I give the credit to Riboku for Ouki and Gekishin because for one that is what manga is doing and two because those are situations orchestrated by him. As I mentioned before, I'm perfectly fine with giving Houken the credit for Duke Hyou.

Also, not only are you taking days to reply, you're not even addressing all of my points.

Sorry mate, some people here have something called job and can't always reply right away. But I'll try to answer your points if I missed anything.

"Atleast he showed top notch strategy and wits and top tier strength and doesn't take credit of other peer generals as his own. Renpa lost to mogou, but we all know who was more impressive, Renpa. That was the same, ouki impressed more than Riboku. To take him out, 2 if the 3GH were needed and 2 Zhao armies and a bit of plot help aswell. He died, but he was the most impressive that war."

This is the difference between Ouki and Riboku which you have chose to ignore.

Renpa being more impressive then Mougou means very little, since Mougou was mentioned multiple times as rather standard and by the book commander. In fact Renpa's grand strategy in Sanyou was rather standard on it's own.

Ouki being more impressive then Riboku is pretty debatable, since Riboku's shown unprecedented level of planing, but I guess we will never agree on that part.