Powers & Abilities Roger isn’t a swordsman

[Gaimon The Pirate]

I would argue that in a duel to the death, if Zoro could chose between finishing it with a punch to the face or dying with a sword in his hand, he'd choose to die, because he lives and dies by the sword, while the opposite I wouldn't say about a Big Mom, a Shanks or a Kizaru.
That's my main distinction between Roger/Shanks to Mihawk/Zoro.

Roger and Shanks unironically are different than Mihawk and Ryuma because, first, they have never been addressed as dai-kengou in this story (Zoro doesn't dream of becoming the strongest swordsman per se but the strongest dai-kengou, an important nuance often ignored by translators and a fandom that only relies on translations instead of original content); and second, they don't aim at duelling their way to the top of the field of swordsmanship (which is exactly what Ryuma, Mihawk and Zoro had in common and what is likely involved in turning your sword black since it's a common Japanese trop).

The amount of canon information in this manga supporting that this issue isn't as simple as "carries a sword = swordsman" is undeniable, but people here, let's say simple readers, don't want to accept it since their vision is easier and more comfortable.

This to me sounds pretty similar

Post automatically merged: Jul 22, 2023

The top tiers are joyboy ryuma Roger xebec. One thing is common with them which is they carry swords so Zoro is the strongest eos. Even one armed swordsman is the strongest yonko. That's how strong swordsmen are. And another hint, mihawk made CG yonko crew with just buggy and croco.

The strongest Yonko was without a doubt Kaido, come on, why lie?
It's canon, stated multiple times that Kaido is the strongest creature, that he's unbeatable 1v1 etc.

 

[zorovsanji]

I would argue that in a duel to the death, if Zoro could chose between finishing it with a punch to the face or dying with a sword in his hand, he'd choose to die, because he lives and dies by the sword, while the opposite I wouldn't say about a Big Mom, a Shanks or a Kizaru.
That's my main distinction between Roger/Shanks to Mihawk/Zoro.



This to me sounds pretty similar

Post automatically merged: Jul 22, 2023

The strongest Yonko was without a doubt Kaido, come on, why lie?
It's canon, stated multiple times that Kaido is the strongest creature, that he's unbeatable 1v1 etc.

Seeing how shanks easily defeated kidd and how Oden gave kaido PTSD. I would go with shanks.

 

[Juanpiz]

I would argue that in a duel to the death, if Zoro could chose between finishing it with a punch to the face or dying with a sword in his hand, he'd choose to die, because he lives and dies by the sword, while the opposite I wouldn't say about a Big Mom, a Shanks or a Kizaru.
That's my main distinction between Roger/Shanks to Mihawk/Zoro.



This to me sounds pretty similar

Post automatically merged: Jul 22, 2023

The strongest Yonko was without a doubt Kaido, come on, why lie?
It's canon, stated multiple times that Kaido is the strongest creature, that he's unbeatable 1v1 etc.

https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Three_Sword_Style/No_Sword_Style

 

[Gaimon The Pirate]

https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Three_Sword_Style/No_Sword_Style

But that is not the example I made.
Zoro put himself in a situation where he is not using swords to begin with.
It's not a fight to the death, it's Foxy games.
Imagine, duel with Mihawk EOS, would Zoro punch/kick Mihawk to save his life or would he choose to die?

 

[Shasha23]

I would argue that in a duel to the death, if Zoro could chose between finishing it with a punch to the face or dying with a sword in his hand, he'd choose to die, because he lives and dies by the sword, while the opposite I wouldn't say about a Big Mom, a Shanks or a Kizaru.
That's my main distinction between Roger/Shanks to Mihawk/Zoro.

what lead you to come to such an absurd distinction?

 

[Gaimon The Pirate]

Seeing how shanks easily defeated kidd and how Oden gave kaido PTSD. I would go with shanks.

The same thing that would have happened to Law + Kidd + Luffy + Zoro + Killer if Zoro didn't slow down Hakai and Law didn't have teletrasportation powers.

 

[L57]

apparently you need to be born a swordsman

 

[Gaimon The Pirate]

what lead you to come to such an absurd distinction?

Honor, code of the sword, the way the character portray themselves and how they use swords.
Zoro/Mihawl/Ryuma use the sword as an extension of themselves, as it's part of their body.
Big Mom, Kizaru, use the sword as a tool, as a weapon more than as their art.
And I'd put Shanks/Roger in the second group myself.

 

[zorovsanji]

The same thing that would have happened to Law + Kidd + Luffy + Zoro + Killer if Zoro didn't slow down Hakai and Law didn't have teletrasportation powers.

I believe kaidos weakness are swordsmen that's why 4 of his top 5 are swordsmen.

 

[Gaimon The Pirate]

I believe kaidos weakness are swordsmen that's why 4 of his top 5 are swordsmen.

How is that in any way shape or form related to what I just said.

Are you quoting the wrong person?

 

[Shasha23]

Honor, code of the sword, the way the character portray themselves and how they use swords.
Zoro/Mihawl/Ryuma use the sword as an extension of themselves, as it's part of their body.
Big Mom, Kizaru, use the sword as a tool, as a weapon more than as their art.
And I'd put Shanks/Roger in the second group myself.

when did you not see the same for Shanks, Roger, Fujitora, etc?
So you group Roger and Shanks in a separate group than Mihawk because you are insecure or dont want to accept the truth?

do you know what this is?

 

[Juanpiz]

But that is not the example I made.
Zoro put himself in a situation where he is not using swords to begin with.
It's not a fight to the death, it's Foxy games.
Imagine, duel with Mihawk EOS, would Zoro punch/kick Mihawk to save his life or would he choose to die?

Could be possible bc he already threw his dream /pride away when he took luffy's pain and begged mihawk

Post automatically merged: Jul 22, 2023

Yes you have to cut your way out of your mommys belly

 

[zorovsanji]

How is that in any way shape or form related to what I just said.

Are you quoting the wrong person?

That's why I have shanks above kaido coz those top 5 are capable of beating him.

 

[Gaimon The Pirate]

when did you not see the same for Shanks, Roger, Fujitora, etc?
So you group Roger and Shanks in a separate group than Mihawk because you are insecure or dont want to accept the truth?

do you know what this is?

I would group Fujitora in a different group because he fights with his fruit first and foremost, the same holding true for Kizaru, Big Mom, Law and many others.

Re-read this message, maybe I'm not explaining my point simple enough for you to undestand it.

Roger and Shanks unironically are different than Mihawk and Ryuma because, first, they have never been addressed as dai-kengou in this story (Zoro doesn't dream of becoming the strongest swordsman per se but the strongest dai-kengou, an important nuance often ignored by translators and a fandom that only relies on translations instead of original content); and second, they don't aim at duelling their way to the top of the field of swordsmanship (which is exactly what Ryuma, Mihawk and Zoro had in common and what is likely involved in turning your sword black since it's a common Japanese trop).

The amount of canon information in this manga supporting that this issue isn't as simple as "carries a sword = swordsman" is undeniable, but people here, let's say simple readers, don't want to accept it since their vision is easier and more comfortable.

What would I be scared of by the way? Insecure of what?

Post automatically merged: Jul 22, 2023

Could be possible bc he already threw his dream /pride away when he took luffy's pain and begged mihawk

Yeah, Zoro definetly threw away his pride when in the last fight with King the only thing he could think of was not to break his promise to Luffy.
Are we reading the same manga, are you saying that Zoro doesn't abide to a code of Honor much more than most characters?

 

[kurwa]

wait wait wait, so since Zoro said he will even bite King's throat if it means winning does that now mean Zoro is not a swordsman but a throat bitting man?

Yes, the whole point of that scene is that Zoro says he will even drop being a swordsman in order to win that fight

I don't know why are you trying your hardest to deny Zoro's own words of not calling King a swordsman

 

[Gaimon The Pirate]

That's why I have shanks above kaido coz those top 5 are capable of beating him.

Yeah but that is nowhere close to what is state in universe and in canon.

 

[Roronoa-sama]

I think Roger and Shanks are swordsmen but they are different than Mihawk/Ryuma

Yes they are weaker

 

[Shasha23]

I would group Fujitora in a different group because he fights with his fruit first and foremost, the same holding true for Kizaru, Big Mom, Law and many others.

Re-read this message, maybe I'm not explaining my point simple enough for you to undestand it.



What would I be scared of by the way? Insecure of what?

Post automatically merged: Jul 22, 2023

Yeah, Zoro definetly threw away his pride when in the last fight with King the only thing he could think of was not to break his promise to Luffy.
Are we reading the same manga, are you saying that Zoro doesn't abide to a code of Honor much more than most characters?

there is no difference between any of them, the difference is made by people like you who dont want to accept reality, thats all, this stupid thread was made because some idiots dont want to accept Mihawk being WSS and refuse to believe Zoro will archive his dream and realise the promise he made to Kuina that he will be the strongest swordsman ever and that he will become so strong his name will reach her in heaven.
People like you just dont want to accept what the manga and Oda has repeatedly said because of your agendas thats all.

 

[Gaimon The Pirate]

there is no difference between any of them, the difference is made by people like you who dont want to accept reality, thats all, this stupid thread was made because some idiots dont want to accept Mihawk being WSS and refuse to believe Zoro will archive his dream and realise the promise he made to Kuina that he will be the strongest swordsman ever and that he will become so strong his name will reach her in heaven.
People like you just dont want to accept what the manga and Oda has repeatedly said because of your agendas thats all.

What is my agenda?

Have you read Charlotte's message?

I don't disagree on anything you wrote. Zoro will become the WSS, and all that stuff, so I am not even sure what you're on about.

 

[Shasha23]

Yes, the whole point of that scene is that Zoro says he will even drop being a swordsman in order to win that fight

I don't know why are you trying your hardest to deny Zoro's own words of not calling King a swordsman

I know you are slow and a dimwit but just try and follow:

The exchange between Zoro and King was that the 2 of them would do anything to win the fight, thats all, but you clowns twist words as to push certain agendas and completely ignore what is being said in the manga

Post automatically merged: Jul 22, 2023

What is my agenda?

Have you read Charlotte's message?

I don't disagree on anything you wrote. Zoro will become the WSS, and all that stuff, so I am not even sure what you're on about.

You have your own agenda for refusing to accept what the manga has said numerous times over

I read it, and he is wrong, this has been addressed many times with even the original panels of Zoro's promise being translated along with Mihawk's title, there has never been anywhere where the manga made a differentiation between Roger, Shanks, Mihawk and Zoro.
Infact the manga made it clear that Zoro will be the strongest swordsman ever after the original raws where translated again.

Why is it so hard for you to accept certain characters as swordsmen and try and make all these categories then?