Powers & Abilities Roof top 5 hype

[Gnomishness]

I guess Queen's Neck Swing>>>>>>Thunder Bagua then

Perospero hasn't been taken out yet. Queen's Neck swing should be just as ineffective against him as Ichiji's punch was last arc. We shouldn't forget Perospero's endurance. That guy can survive having an arm blown off, without medical attention, for several hours and remain conscious despite that. I'd be shocked if he was defeated at this point. He's probably laying low with a "wait and see" strategy, now that the Beast Pirates don't seem like the obvious winners any more, ready to join Big Mom in potentially stabbing them in the back.

Also, do you really think that Killer could tank a Thunder Bagua? Or Kidd, while he isn't maximally defended with his metal as armor? Or Law without using a Devilfruit Hax to defend himself? They lower the average way down.

 

[ConquistadoR]

i think luffy and zoro are well above YC1 while kid can match some of the best YC1 (talking marco & katakuri). i place law and killer at around YC2 right now.

i feel like law and killer are much more nuanced and they arent as strong as the other R5 in 1v1s however as support fighters their value is immense especially law.

these 5 are best fighters of the alliance alongside the sulong dukes IMO.

 

[Zaretball]

Luffy is too strong to be Yc
Kid/Zoro —Yc1
Law -Yc2+
Killer is something between Jack and Wsw

 

[Monkey D Theories]

I think Killer should be between YC3 and YC2, at least by feats

 

[ConquistadoR]

I think Killer should be between YC3 and YC2, at least by feats

yeah, if those sonic attacks can penetrate kaido's scales, i dont think any yonko commander can stop that from hurting them. a nerfed, weakened killer was able to match nitoryu zoro as well. both portrayal and feats place him there for now.

 

[ShinmenTakezo]

Luffy is in-betweener, at best low top tier, until he gets G4 under control, he can´t be higher.
Zoro is Y1C to in-betweener.
Kid is Y2C.
Law is Y2C to Y3C.
Killer is Y3C to Y4C.

 

[m0nst3Rx]

Please tell you don’t actually think that Hawkins > Queen

hawkins cant reach to the top because he were recuirt by defeating sont compare his rank as powerscale

Hawking might mid difff queen the fodder
even tony tony chopper can trash queen with one hit also now sanji fighting with queen lol

 

[Monkey D Theories]

Or Kidd, while he isn't maximally defended with his metal as armor? Or Law without using a Devilfruit Hax to defend himself? They lower the average way down.

Luffy can't tank thunder bagua either when he isn't using haki to defend himself, I don't see what your point is.
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Kid is Y2C.
Law is Y2C to Y3C.
.

Sanji is beating a YC2 this arc and Kid and Law have always been portrayed to be much stronger than him.

Given that both of them are facing off against a yonko, they are easily above YC1 tier

 

[ShinmenTakezo]

Luffy can't tank thunder bagua either when he isn't using haki to defend himself, I don't see what your point is.
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Sanji is beating a YC2 this arc and Kid and Law have always been portrayed to be much stronger than him.

Given that both of them are facing off against a yonko, they are easily above YC1 tier

Kid and Law been portrayed to be stronger until Wa No, just like every yonkou commander has been portrayed to be stronger than Sanji, right until the moment he beats them...
Sanji got a huge power-up in this arc, the other two, nada.
Facing off against someone does not make you anything, the abilities you show in context with the opponent are relevant. Just being on the rooftop does not make you anything.
We have not seen King yet, but any Y1C would have done better than Kid, Law and Killer on an individual basis. Law is arguably shaky since he is also a great support (shambles) plus he obviously has an advantage since he can ignore durability, the main problem of both Kaidou and BM, but Karakuri could have compensated that by providing Mochi assist, and Marco is a tank that can take attacks for a relatively long time and can also heal others, even if it is to a lesser extent than he can heal himself.
Zoro is higher than them because his attacks were actually dangerous, as stated by both Kaidou and BM themselves, and he actually hurt Kaidou, and also blocked the strongest attack shown on the rooftop so far, even if it was only for a second to provide the opportunity for the others to dodge and it took him out of the game until he gets the serum.

 

[Gnomishness]

Luffy can't tank thunder bagua either when he isn't using haki to defend himself, I don't see what your point is.

Read the comment thread.
I had been arguing against an idiot who was trying to use performance against Thunder Bagua as proof of Rooftop level being particularly high.

You seem to agree with the idiot's perspective on the topic, but surely you can pick some better vectors to argue it from, right?

Sanji is beating a YC2 this arc and Kid and Law have always been portrayed to be much stronger than him.

The nature of this victory still remains to be seen. It's been getting progressively less likely, chapter by chapter now, but the thing which makes Queen a fearsome combatant on the level of a Yonko Commander might have still not been revealed yet.

Chopper could come up with an air based plague cure. Suppose Queen has access to an air-based plague, on an even higher level of potency to the ones he's shown so far, that he's completely immune to.

Sanji, with his Raid-Suit mask and full-body covering, along with the probable ventilator attached to it, might be a rather direct counter to Queen's strongest ability, thus allowing him to slip the "Yonko Commander" definition for one more arc.

Given that both of them are facing off against a yonko, they are easily above YC1 tier

Spoiler

Facing off against Big Mom for a short while in a group fight melee, while she's casual, is the sort of thing that definitely doesn't require Yonko Commander Level 1 to achieve. I'll eat my words with this if we cut back to Law and Kidd winning against her, but none of your proofs for why rooftop level is higher than Yonko Commander Level have actually happened yet.

 

[Finalbeta]

I think Killer should be between YC3 and YC2, at least by feats

That sounds genuinely good to me.

He managed to inflict some damage to Kaido but also be likely complimented for it. Of course he is also up against Hawkins which I didn't like in the slightest.

 

[Zoro the badass god]

Zoro>Luffy>>>law=killer>>kid.thats it others is bullshit.zoro didn't unlock all advance haki like Luffy did more damage than all advance haki Luffy.Luffy is shit stop wank him so high.if zoro unlock all then Luffy is just fodder to zoro.meanwhile kid is pure weakling on rooftop he can't do shit even though he face yonko many time.bet it's true it wasn't shank who negg diff kid.all talk but nothing is clearly fit eustass Captain kid.killer did more damage than his captain.poor killer hes so loyal to someone who can't do anything in new world

 

[Finalbeta]

Zoro > Luffy > Kidd > Law > Killer is my bet for now.

Let's see if our man Luffy will manage to catch up his crewmate.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

Facing off against someone does not make you anything, the abilities you show in context with the opponent are relevant. Just being on the rooftop does not make you anything.

I can't believe you are arguing this.

You are telling me that Kid and Law fighting a person who literally neg diffed Sanji's opponent while nerfed does not in any way give them better portrayal than Sanji?

 

[ShinmenTakezo]

I can't believe you are arguing this.

You are telling me that Kid and Law fighting a person who literally neg diffed Sanji's opponent while nerfed does not in any way give them better portrayal than Sanji?

No unless they actually show something noteworthy and actually show a fight.
I love how inconsistent your arguments are. For Killer you are arguing by feats he should be Y2C or Y3C, yet conveniently are not talking about the portrayal of him fighting a mid tier like Hawkins.
Also i love that we are pretending that Law and Kid would not fall the same way like Queen once they are actually caught by Big Mom without a trick and plan they literally planed beforehand in which 4 dudes literally had to be part of.

Until Law and Kid show something against Big Mom that is beyond the capabilities of Y2Cs, they do not automatically scale higher. A team fight is infinitely easier, especially since except with Thunder Bagua, both BM and Kaidou are not speedsters, so the smaller and faster team could always help each other.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

I love how inconsistent your arguments are. For Killer you are arguing by feats he should be Y2C or Y3C, yet conveniently are not talking about the portrayal of him fighting a mid tier like Hawkins.

Because I don’t think Hawkins is a mid tier. By feats he should easily be a YC3.

just look at every ability he has shown:

• Straw sword
• Demon conquering form
• Strawman
• Damage transference

How exactly is Jack much stronger than him(if he is even stronger at all)? Literally the only argument you can make is a deference to beast pirate hierarchy and bounties.

urouge was able to beat a YC4 and Hawkins always had better portrayal than him

 

[Legendaryconquer#1]

Because I don’t think Hawkins is a mid tier. By feats he should easily be a YC3.

just look at every ability he has shown:

• Straw sword
• Demon conquering form
• Strawman
• Damage transference

How exactly is Jack much stronger than him(if he is even stronger at all)? Literally the only argument you can make is a deference to beast pirate hierarchy and bounties.

urouge was able to beat a YC4 and Hawkins always had better portrayal than him

I agree.

 

[ShinmenTakezo]

Because I don’t think Hawkins is a mid tier. By feats he should easily be a YC3.

just look at every ability he has shown:

• Straw sword
• Demon conquering form
• Strawman
• Damage transference

How exactly is Jack much stronger than him(if he is even stronger at all)? Literally the only argument you can make is a deference to beast pirate hierarchy and bounties.

urouge was able to beat a YC4 and Hawkins always had better portrayal than him

You are literally pulling your claims out of your ass.

1) What feats.
2) How are these abilities adding up to a Y3C?

Jack is stronger because he has proven against literal beasts who made someone on Hawkins level shit his pants that he can fight for five days and still remain undefeated. He has proven against dozens of Sulong by beating them, when one Sulong could not be stopped by a mid tier and an actual fleet that he is above mid tiers, which also is fitting his position of Y3C.
And of course rank means something. A crew that has a hierarchy literally built on strength obviously underlines their comparative strength to each other. And Hawkins does not have an excuse like Apoo that he was an informant and thus remained hidden.
What has Hawkins done in comparison exactly, show me those feats, dude even predicted Brownbeard´s death wrong.

Every Supernova had better portrayal than Urouge because he literally had the lowest bounty. Hawkins having a higher bounty and causing some disturbance is not resulting him having better portrayal, and he is not piggybacking on Urouge´s feat of beating a Y4C until he even remotely shows he is capable of matching that feat.

 

[Midnight Delight]

Pre Enma Zoro must have been YC1 if he could humiliate a YC3 like that

And Denjiro is clearly Oden level for forcing him to retreat

 

[Finalbeta]

Pre Enma Zoro must have been YC1 if he could humiliate a YC3 like that

And Denjiro is clearly Oden level for forcing him to retreat

Yeah why not.

Asura Zoro would have one shot Kamazo without being damaged in the process.

Hawkins looked like a sitting duck against a Zoro probably more suppressed than he was.