General & Others Sanji is a contradiction.

[Fiji]

I used to love Sanji, I used to think he was an "amazing character" like 98% of the One Piece fanbase think, but the more I think about it, the more his character pisses me off.

His main ideology is that he shows women the utmost respect, due to his upbringing and circumstances as a child, he puts women on a pedestal.

However, there's a "gag" his character partakes in, where he is constantly perverted and degrading towards women. This perversion directly conflicts and clashes with his main ideology. His character makes no sense.

For the people who say "it's just a gag", how can you say that? Sanji's "gag" has directly affected the plot. On Fishman Island, Sanji's perversion was an entire subplot of the arc. Chopper's hilarious bounties, THAT is a gag. Zoro getting lost all the time, THAT is a gag. Because they do not affect the plot.

Some instances where Sanji's perversion can be seen as disrespectful and degrading towards women:

Spoiler

In the instance above, Sanji is shown wanting to find a camera and take pictures of Nami while he is in her body. In this instance, it can be seen as disrespectful but it isn't as bad as other instances considering this is Nami, she doesn't care as much as random girls that Sanji doesn't know. However, it is still disrespectful and not the way you should treat a woman. This kind of treatment makes no sense because Sanji lives to preach that women should be put on a pedestal and should be given the utmost respect.

Spoiler

In this instance above, Sanji is shown touching Nami's boobs without her permission. Just like the previous instance, this is obviously not disrespecful but sexual harassment. I'm not going to say much about this instance though because again, it is Nami and she knows and loves Sanji.

Spoiler

In this instance above, Sanji is shown with his tongue out and "locking on to women". In the bottom left panel you can CLEARLY see that the women feel uncomfortable and harassed. This is disrespectful and degrading behaviour that I could overlook as "just a gag" if it was ANYBODY else. The reason why this is an issue is because it DIRECTLY contradicts everything that Sanji stands for. How can you preach respect yet continually disrespect?

Spoiler

This last one, the most recent instance of disrespect toward women, is probably my least favourite Sanji moment in the entire series. Sanji snuck into a bathhouse filled with women and spied on them, fulfilling his lifelong dream of being invisible and spying on women. This one made me feel sick to the core, because I thought the whole Absalom-dream gag was JUST a gag that was left and forgotten in Thriller Bark, but the Raid Suit came and reintroduced this shitty concept. This is one of my least favourite chapters in Wano so far.


If you love Sanji, that is PERFECTLY fine and I obviously don't hold you against it, this is a fictional character that we're talking about lol, I won't feel any way. Just wanted to express my thoughts on a character that I think is "poorly" written. Well, more like Oda just hates him. Oda has written Sanji into a corner that is terrible for his character multiple times.

 

[Jew D. Boy]

Just wanted to put something here before the hardcore Sanji stans come riding in...I love him as a character, his backstory is rich and his abilities are second to very, VERY few, but the shtick with women (both respecting them to a fault AND always bleeding/fainting in their presence) got old by Sabaody and is completely inexcusable now. Oda’s not one for character development, he’s more about character REGRESSION, and after WCI, Sanji should be a lot more penitent for all the trouble he caused. For all the good he’s done in the series, he has serious flaws that have never been addressed.

 

[Shuyaku]

I agree on some of the points, Sanji's perversion has been turned into a staple of his character which is a huge shame, Sanji can be insanely cool at times, but ruined by horrible lines such as "a man forgives female lies". Sanji has many likeable aspects, but i perfectly understand why one would not be able to look past the pervert shit.

 

[Albino 👑]

I like how franky got mad at nami for buttoning up his shirt lol

 

[Winsmoke Sanji]

I used to love Sanji, I used to think he was an "amazing character" like 98% of the One Piece fanbase think, but the more I think about it, the more his character pisses me off.

His main ideology is that he shows women the utmost respect, due to his upbringing and circumstances as a child, he puts women on a pedestal.

However, there's a "gag" his character partakes in, where he is constantly perverted and degrading towards women. This perversion directly conflicts and clashes with his main ideology. His character makes no sense.

For the people who say "it's just a gag", how can you say that? Sanji's "gag" has directly affected the plot. On Fishman Island, Sanji's perversion was an entire subplot of the arc. Chopper's hilarious bounties, THAT is a gag. Zoro getting lost all the time, THAT is a gag. Because they do not affect the plot.

Some instances where Sanji's perversion can be seen as disrespectful and degrading towards women:

Spoiler

In the instance above, Sanji is shown wanting to find a camera and take pictures of Nami while he is in her body. In this instance, it can be seen as disrespectful but it isn't as bad as other instances considering this is Nami, she doesn't care as much as random girls that Sanji doesn't know. However, it is still disrespectful and not the way you should treat a woman. This kind of treatment makes no sense because Sanji lives to preach that women should be put on a pedestal and should be given the utmost respect.

Spoiler

In this instance above, Sanji is shown touching Nami's boobs without her permission. Just like the previous instance, this is obviously not disrespecful but sexual harassment. I'm not going to say much about this instance though because again, it is Nami and she knows and loves Sanji.

Spoiler

In this instance above, Sanji is shown with his tongue out and "locking on to women". In the bottom left panel you can CLEARLY see that the women feel uncomfortable and harassed. This is disrespectful and degrading behaviour that I could overlook as "just a gag" if it was ANYBODY else. The reason why this is an issue is because it DIRECTLY contradicts everything that Sanji stands for. How can you preach respect yet continually disrespect?

Spoiler

This last one, the most recent instance of disrespect toward women, is probably my least favourite Sanji moment in the entire series. Sanji snuck into a bathhouse filled with women and spied on them, fulfilling his lifelong dream of being invisible and spying on women. This one made me feel sick to the core, because I thought the whole Absalom-dream gag was JUST a gag that was left and forgotten in Thriller Bark, but the Raid Suit came and reintroduced this shitty concept. This is one of my least favourite chapters in Wano so far.


If you love Sanji, that is PERFECTLY fine and I obviously don't hold you against it, this is a fictional character that we're talking about lol, I won't feel any way. Just wanted to express my thoughts on a character that I think is "poorly" written. Well, more like Oda just hates him. Oda has written Sanji into a corner that is terrible for his character multiple times.

... I don't know how many times this has to be explained in forums, discord servers, reddit, videos, or whatever. Sanji's perverseness is a gag in Japan and to Oda.

Even when it comes to that Oda made a clear distinction between Sanji's perverseness and Absolom's view on women. Absolom views women as objects and was ok with Nami getting hurt. He also also okay with shooting missles and Lola's zombies and hurting it when Sanji doesn't even fight Okamas (Except the ones he had to to get the recipes) and also finds it's dishonorable to even bleed on a woman.

This is nothing but making a bigger deal out of a confirmed gag

 

[Garp the Fist]

Well put it this way, it'll be diluted to hell in the western live action. It's a case of very different western and eastern approaches to gender relation. Not a sign that Oda hates Sanji.

And I deleted all the hoping for a troll fest posts. Grow up.

 

[Albino 👑]

As for the sanji stuff tbh with the example you gave i think those moments at least are pretty funny imo
The man thirsting on the first woman he's seen in 2 years made me laugh
The fishmen island gag leading to him legit risking his life to look at shirahoshi had me dying
The nami body switch was weird but funny

Also i love the last one just for the fact it mimics luffy getting ko'd by kaido pose

I get what you're saying with how it can be disrespectful for him to do that and shit. And oda definitely goes too much on gags > logic or character development

 

[MasterD]

OK since the fist deleted my post were I tried to be a bit of an ass to sdramatize this topic and have a laugh for a bit there is nothing strange in sanjis depiction we have seen that in most anime/manga this is part of the culture there is nothing strange about it hell we have brook and franky to in the crew they also act like "pervs".

 

[Chrono]

Didnt Zoro getting lost cause his sub-plot in Wano ? Instead of being with the crew he was out frollicking around being useless. Sanji's gag doesnt make it any less of a gag just because it affects the plot. Its a Japanese pervert thing, in terns of western ideals....they're weirdo creeps. Anyways Sanji is hypocritical character, as he is drawn out to be very human. He doesnt let others do stuff that he would do himself, whether it means running back to fight when they should run, perving at girls or sacrificing themselves. This aspect may well make him likable or not. But sure as hell makes him relatable, as most humans are hypocrits. Its in our blood.

Do I like the pervert gag. Sure, when it was only him being a simp. Do I think he should tone it down now tho ? Yup. Its outta control.

Btw dont go crazy over the bathscene, their were other dudes there as well. And it was unisex bathing area.

 

[Jew D. Boy]

... I don't know how many times this has to be explained in forums, discord servers, reddit, videos, or whatever. Sanji's perverseness is a gag in Japan and to Oda.

Even when it comes to that Oda made a clear distinction between Sanji's perverseness and Absolom's view on women. Absolom views women as objects and was ok with Nami getting hurt. He also also okay with shooting missles and Lola's zombies and hurting it when Sanji doesn't even fight Okamas (Except the ones he had to to get the recipes) and also finds it's dishonorable to even bleed on a woman.

This is nothing but making a bigger deal out of a confirmed gag

Nobody thinks it *isn’t* a gag, the issue is that the joke is WAAAAAAY too overdone by this point and is becoming a serious character flaw. We aren’t confused by the nature of the gag itself.

 

[Sadistic Senpai]

I used to love Sanji, I used to think he was an "amazing character" like 98% of the One Piece fanbase think, but the more I think about it, the more his character pisses me off.

His main ideology is that he shows women the utmost respect, due to his upbringing and circumstances as a child, he puts women on a pedestal.

However, there's a "gag" his character partakes in, where he is constantly perverted and degrading towards women. This perversion directly conflicts and clashes with his main ideology. His character makes no sense.

For the people who say "it's just a gag", how can you say that? Sanji's "gag" has directly affected the plot. On Fishman Island, Sanji's perversion was an entire subplot of the arc. Chopper's hilarious bounties, THAT is a gag. Zoro getting lost all the time, THAT is a gag. Because they do not affect the plot.

Some instances where Sanji's perversion can be seen as disrespectful and degrading towards women:

Spoiler

In the instance above, Sanji is shown wanting to find a camera and take pictures of Nami while he is in her body. In this instance, it can be seen as disrespectful but it isn't as bad as other instances considering this is Nami, she doesn't care as much as random girls that Sanji doesn't know. However, it is still disrespectful and not the way you should treat a woman. This kind of treatment makes no sense because Sanji lives to preach that women should be put on a pedestal and should be given the utmost respect.

Spoiler

In this instance above, Sanji is shown touching Nami's boobs without her permission. Just like the previous instance, this is obviously not disrespecful but sexual harassment. I'm not going to say much about this instance though because again, it is Nami and she knows and loves Sanji.

Spoiler

In this instance above, Sanji is shown with his tongue out and "locking on to women". In the bottom left panel you can CLEARLY see that the women feel uncomfortable and harassed. This is disrespectful and degrading behaviour that I could overlook as "just a gag" if it was ANYBODY else. The reason why this is an issue is because it DIRECTLY contradicts everything that Sanji stands for. How can you preach respect yet continually disrespect?

Spoiler

This last one, the most recent instance of disrespect toward women, is probably my least favourite Sanji moment in the entire series. Sanji snuck into a bathhouse filled with women and spied on them, fulfilling his lifelong dream of being invisible and spying on women. This one made me feel sick to the core, because I thought the whole Absalom-dream gag was JUST a gag that was left and forgotten in Thriller Bark, but the Raid Suit came and reintroduced this shitty concept. This is one of my least favourite chapters in Wano so far.


If you love Sanji, that is PERFECTLY fine and I obviously don't hold you against it, this is a fictional character that we're talking about lol, I won't feel any way. Just wanted to express my thoughts on a character that I think is "poorly" written. Well, more like Oda just hates him. Oda has written Sanji into a corner that is terrible for his character multiple times.

First of all, This is in general, having contradiction does not mean his character is bad. Human are contradictory. One day you act one way, the other day, you do something completely goes against what you did the other day.

Now, after saying that. I'll get into Sanji. Regarding being perverted, that does not mean he's degrading women. That's simply his "sexual drive" being very wild compared to other males.

In today's society, some people look at that as being disrespectful. However, what you need to count is "which culture" are you talking about. Meaning, my culture about the way of treating women is different from your culture, which is different from Japanese culture. And Japanese culture has also TWO sides, there are the modern society, and there is the old society and their ideals.

What some people in one area can be considered as "degrading/disrespectful" can be seen as something "normal" in different culture, or even in the same culture but from different times.

I'll give you an example which happens in other anime to explain more:

If you have seen Bleech, I want you to watch this scene, and then LOOK at what the woman with glasses say (her name is Lisa)

We have the guy being flustered about being called "pervert"

While, the woman in a moment of silent says "it's natural to be interested in woman's body" and act like that.

So, in that scene, you can see the mentality of that woman itself is DIFFERENT from how you view "degrading or disrespectful".

Where, she considers it "normal". And it's only degrading if you actually look at women as "sexual tool". But this is not what Sanji is all about. Sanji simply is a pervert, but he also believes in women, forgives their lies, he is gentle with them, never hits them, sees every smart move Nami does and cheer for her navigation skills. He's someone way beyond a guy who just looks at women as sexual tools for his own desires.

And that's simply my answer.

Also, just to note, in the same society, in the same era, you can find individual women who appreciates a man who lust for them. And at the same time, in this same society, same era, you can find women who hate it and despise it.
Life is never black and white, Life is always grey, it is never totally clear.

And with that being said, Sanji lived all his life loving everything about women as well as being so damn interested in them sexually. That's just who he is. It doesn't mean he degrades them, he is simply a "hyper sexual guy" who's got a boner most of the time LOL

So, yeah. You can live your life thinking that your own way is the ONLY right thing, and the way you are raised is the ONLY way to live life righteously. Or simply, you can accept diverse ideologies, and diverse way of life, and stop being in one single bubble. Women are different, they have individuality. In fact, if I was like you, I can accuse you of being someone who "disrespect women" by giving them one single identity where they ALL HATE what Sanji does. But that's not the case, there are tons of women who hate his actions, just like there are tons who like to have a man who's always lusting for them. To each, they have their own personality, ad way of life. Sanji is no different, he's his own character

 

[Flower]

To be fair, his behaviour towards women is kinda explained(with Reiju and Sora being women and the only ones kind to him in his childhood) and not something that is really poorly written. But I agree that his flirting and perversion becomes a bit...over the top as of late. Especially Sabaody was horrible in that regard. He's still badass, though, but I would love for him to have more badass scenes and not that many pervert scenes.

 

[Winsmoke Sanji]

Nobody thinks it *isn’t* a gag, the issue is that the joke is WAAAAAAY too overdone by this point and is becoming a serious character flaw. We aren’t confused by the nature of the gag itself.

A serious character flaw? It really only affected the story once in a major way. Other than that it's basically negligible

 

[Finalbeta]

It's funny but I don't mind his perversion even though it's not quite the best example of moral behaviour, what I don't like the most is his lack of interest for training, completely ditched for cuisine, which even though his biggest passion, doesn't justify so. He is still part of a crew with the end goal of becoming the strongest and best in the world.

 

[Jew D. Boy]

A serious character flaw? It really only affected the story once in a major way. Other than that it's basically negligible

Clearly comes down to how you feel about the character itself - one man’s innocent joke is another’s repetitive annoyance. Whether or not it affects the action in the story is immaterial; how it affects the readers is all that matters here, and the existence of this thread means some people are tired of the shtick.

 

[Sadistic Senpai]

It's funny but I don't mind his perversion even though it's not quite the best example of moral behaviour, what I don't like the most is his lack of interest for training, completely ditched for cuisine, which even though his biggest passion, doesn't justify so. He is still part of a crew with the end goal of becoming the strongest and best in the world.

What's funny is that I'll be Sanji's partner in sneaking into Woman's bath

People can complain all they want, I'd rather have Sanji as a friend over someone who wants to train everyday LOL. A chef with excellent cooking skills, makes you all types of delicious meals, and then shares with you Porn magazines, and you sneak together into women's bath! I'd rather befirend this guy, than sit on the side, watching someone trains every day, and sleeps LOL

Lol, even both of Brook and Kinemon, who both are swordsmen, became more buddies with Sanji than Marimo!
:yasu:
They know, it's more fun

 

[soultrain]

This really comes down to how much you are bothered by harassment and sexism. In my case, I never found any of this funny. This is pure harassment. Sexism isn't funny, at all. I love One Piece. I like how the Okama are treated in the series, that's really special. But I have long accepted that Oda is quite sexist

 

[Jew D. Boy]

This really comes down to how much you are bothered by harassment and sexism. In my case, I never found any of this funny. This is pure harassment. Sexism isn't funny, at all. I love One Piece. I like how the Okama are treated in the series, that's really special. But I have long accepted that Oda is quite sexist

👏👏👏

 

[Fiji]

First of all, This is in general, having contradiction does not mean his character is bad. Human are contradictory. One day you act one way, the other day, you do something completely goes against what you did the other day.

Now, after saying that. I'll get into Sanji. Regarding being perverted, that does not mean he's degrading women. That's simply his "sexual drive" being very wild compared to other males.

In today's society, some people look at that as being disrespectful. However, what you need to count is "which culture" are you talking about. Meaning, my culture about the way of treating women is different from your culture, which is different from Japanese culture. And Japanese culture has also TWO sides, there are the modern society, and there is the old society and their ideals.

What some people in one area can be considered as "degrading/disrespectful" can be seen as something "normal" in different culture, or even in the same culture but from different times.

I'll give you an example which happens in other anime to explain more:

If you have seen Bleech, I want you to watch this scene, and then LOOK at what the woman with glasses say (her name is Lisa)

We have the guy being flustered about being called "pervert"

While, the woman in a moment of silent says "it's natural to be interested in woman's body" and act like that.

So, in that scene, you can see the mentality of that woman itself is DIFFERENT from how you view "degrading or disrespectful".

Where, she considers it "normal". And it's only degrading if you actually look at women as "sexual tool". But this is not what Sanji is all about. Sanji simply is a pervert, but he also believes in women, forgives their lies, he is gentle with them, never hits them, sees every smart move Nami does and cheer for her navigation skills. He's someone way beyond a guy who just looks at women as sexual tools for his own desires.

And that's simply my answer.

Also, just to note, in the same society, in the same era, you can find individual women who appreciates a man who lust for them. And at the same time, in this same society, same era, you can find women who hate it and despise it.
Life is never black and white, Life is always grey, it is never totally clear.

And with that being said, Sanji lived all his life loving everything about women as well as being so damn interested in them sexually. That's just who he is. It doesn't mean he degrades them, he is simply a "hyper sexual guy" who's got a boner most of the time LOL

So, yeah. You can live your life thinking that your own way is the ONLY right thing, and the way you are raised is the ONLY way to live life righteously. Or simply, you can accept diverse ideologies, and diverse way of life, and stop being in one single bubble. Women are different, they have individuality. In fact, if I was like you, I can accuse you of being someone who "disrespect women" by giving them one single identity where they ALL HATE what Sanji does. But that's not the case, there are tons of women who hate his actions, just like there are tons who like to have a man who's always lusting for them. To each, they have their own personality, ad way of life. Sanji is no different, he's his own character

Okay, I disagree with practically everything you're saying here.

1. There are HUGE issues in current day Japan in regards to harassment and Oda is writing for an audience in MODERN day Japan, most of his audience are teenagers who follow modern day traditions and have, as you liked to call it, "modern ideals". Oda should be able to cater to that.

2. The Bleach scene you're mentioning is a completely redundant argument, I am not complaining about Sanji being perverted, his perversion isn't the issue here. It is the fact that his perversion is in DIRECT CONFLICT with his main ideals. Brook is a pervert just like Sanji but he doesn't preach that women should be put on a pedestal, and he is willing to fight a woman as seen in his fight vs Big Mom. He doesn't treat women any differently than how he treats men, iirc.

3. In one of the instances I showed, the one during the Return to Sabaody arc, the women that Sanji is disrespecting and degrading are clearly affected by his actions. They look uncomfortable. That much is evident. The anime scene explored on this and had them run away from Sanji, is that not disrespectful? To make a woman run away because she is afraid of your perversive ways?

4. That last paragraph you wrote is definitely interesting, it tells me a lot about you as a person haha. Life can be black and white for the most part, and it can be grey at times, it definitely isn't "totally clear", however on a topic like this, I am sure you can ask any good-natured person what their stance of Sanji's behaviour is and they will tell you he is being disrespectful. Making women feel uncomfortable through perversion is VERY commonly found to be disrespectful, this has always been the case and if you're telling me that it is disrespectful to assume that women that women don't want to be treated in a perversive manner, then you are indeed, a very interesting individual.

 

[Fiji]

... I don't know how many times this has to be explained in forums, discord servers, reddit, videos, or whatever. Sanji's perverseness is a gag in Japan and to Oda.

Even when it comes to that Oda made a clear distinction between Sanji's perverseness and Absolom's view on women. Absolom views women as objects and was ok with Nami getting hurt. He also also okay with shooting missles and Lola's zombies and hurting it when Sanji doesn't even fight Okamas (Except the ones he had to to get the recipes) and also finds it's dishonorable to even bleed on a woman.

This is nothing but making a bigger deal out of a confirmed gag

Nobody is denying that Sanji tries to show women the utmost respect, he always has and will always continue to, my issue with this "gag" is that is directly affects his character. It's a trait. It is part of him. He is a pervert. That is part of his character. These "gags" that Oda uses are so long and recurring that they come to affect the story as a whole. If you ask the average One Piece fan "what kind of person is Sanji?", they will (for the most part) call him a pervert. Sanji's perverseness may be intended as a gag from Oda but Oda writes Sanji into corners where this "gag" affects his character, HEAVILY. Oda may not intend for something to come across a certain way but it still happens, that's what it means to be a writer, sometimes your audience will have a different interpretation and understanding of your work that you didn't intend for. I feel like this is definitely the case for Sanji. There's a reason why this has to be explained so many times in forums, discord, servers, reddit, videos, or whatever, it's because it is terribly dealt with.