Character Discussion Sanji's Behaviour in Whole Cake Island

[Usopp Haoshoku Haki]

What I think was never properly addressed in the story is Sanji's behaviour towards Luffy in Wholecake Island.I am obviously referring to the incident where he delivers an one-sided beatdown on an already drained Luffy that isn't even defending himself.

To me, this act has always been irredeemable.You can argue all you want but there's no way anyone in their right mind would think that beating the shit out of Luffy would somehow stop him from still going after Sanji.Sanji himself has witness Ennies Lobby and seen the lengths that Luffy went to, to save Robin even though she had been on the ship for a very short time.

It's common sense for everyone following the story, and it should also be common sense for Sanji since he's experienced Luffy for far too long, that you just can't stop him from helping you.Hurting a friend that's not even fighting back is disgraceful.

I don't ever see someone like Zoro, Franky or Brook doing that to Luffy.To be honest I always wanted this to be properly addressed since Nami was there too and there's no reason for it to be a secret.Sanji didn't redeem himself in any way.Sanji did something way worse than what Usopp did in Water7 yet he was never confronted for it.It was literally forgotten just like that.

I am pretty damn sure that if Zoro ever learned about that, there would certainly be conflict/ confrontation, as it should be.However I sadly don't think that Oda wants to go that route again and he just chose to leave the whole thing in the past, disregarding Sanji's disrespect and Zoro's W7 speech on disrespecting the captain.

 

[Stacks]

What I think was never properly addressed in the story is Sanji's behaviour towards Luffy in Wholecake Island.I am obviously referring to the incident where he delivers an one-sided beatdown on an already drained Luffy that isn't even defending himself.

To me, this act has always been irredeemable.You can argue all you want but there's no way anyone in their right mind would think that beating the shit out of Luffy would somehow stop him from still going after Sanji.Sanji himself has witness Ennies Lobby and seen the lengths that Luffy went to, to save Robin even though she had been on the ship for a very short time.

It's common sense for everyone following the story, and it should also be common sense for Sanji since he's experienced Luffy for far too long, that you just can't stop him from helping you.Hurting a friend that's not even fighting back is disgraceful.

I don't ever see someone like Zoro, Franky or Brook doing that to Luffy.To be honest I always wanted this to be properly addressed since Nami was there too and there's no reason for it to be a secret.Sanji didn't redeem himself in any way.Sanji did something way worse than what Usopp did in Water7 yet he was never confronted for it.It was literally forgotten just like that.

I am pretty damn sure that if Zoro ever learned about that, there would certainly be conflict/ confrontation, as it should be.However I sadly don't think that Oda wants to go that route again and he just chose to leave the whole thing in the past, disregarding Sanji's disrespect and Zoro's W7 speech on disrespecting the captain.

Dont worry Sanji's attack power is so weak it didnt hurt luffy

 

[Usopp Haoshoku Haki]

Dont worry Sanji's attack power is so weak it didnt hurt luffy

I remember when momentarily knocking out a drained defenseless hakiless Luffy with 9 DJ attacks was considere a good AP feat by some people lmao.However that's not the point.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Sanji challenged luffy to a duel and Luffy accepted.

Sanji wanted to cut ties to the crew to ensure none of them got hurt if he failed to break off this wedding.

Luffy not fighting back was his choice. And it was because Luffy knew the pain that he was feeling is not as bad as how much it hurt Sanji to do it.

And why he did it? Because it’s literally the same thing Usopp did when he was leaving the crew. And Luffy accepted Usopps leaving, so Sanji had no reason to think Luffy wouldn’t accept sanjis.

It’s like people forget that Luffy himself said it was a duel between the two of them. It doesn’t matter that Luffy wasn’t fighting back because Luffy already accepted that it was a fight between men.

It was all written out in black and white.

 

[Stacks]

I remember when momentarily knocking out a drained defenseless hakiless Luffy with 9 DJ attacks was considere a good AP feat by some people lmao.However that's not the point.

yea but i think sanji knows luffy wont listen anyways so he tried his hardest to push him away and to an extent release his frustrations

 

[Phoenix D. King]

Sanji challenged luffy to a duel and Luffy accepted.

Sanji wanted to cut ties to the crew to ensure none of them got hurt if he failed to break off this wedding.

Luffy not fighting back was his choice. And it was because Luffy knew the pain that he was feeling is not as bad as how much it hurt Sanji to do it.

And why he did it? Because it’s literally the same thing Usopp did when he was leaving the crew. And Luffy accepted Usopps leaving, so Sanji had no reason to think Luffy wouldn’t accept sanjis.

It’s like people forget that Luffy himself said it was a duel between the two of them. It doesn’t matter that Luffy wasn’t fighting back because Luffy already accepted that it was a fight between men.

It was all written out in black and white.

Difference is

Sanji had no faith in Luffy whats so ever, peoving himself to be a coward and a loser.

Usopp strongly disagreed with him, and decided that he couldnt be a part of a crew whos captain he didnt respect.

 

[vikas]

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Difference is

Sanji had no faith in Luffy whats so ever, peoving himself to be a coward and a loser.

Usopp strongly disagreed with him, and decided that he couldnt be a part of a crew whos captain he didnt respect.

It wasn’t a lack of faith? I don’t quite know where that ever started. It was Sanji doing what he could to save Zeff and take personal responsibility for his personal problems. Or do you think it’d be fair for Sanji to tell everyone to stop adventuring so they could travel back to the east blue to protect Zeff 24/7

 

[Usopp Haoshoku Haki]

Sanji challenged luffy to a duel and Luffy accepted.

Sanji wanted to cut ties to the crew to ensure none of them got hurt if he failed to break off this wedding.

Luffy not fighting back was his choice. And it was because Luffy knew the pain that he was feeling is not as bad as how much it hurt Sanji to do it.

And why he did it? Because it’s literally the same thing Usopp did when he was leaving the crew. And Luffy accepted Usopps leaving, so Sanji had no reason to think Luffy wouldn’t accept sanjis.

It’s like people forget that Luffy himself said it was a duel between the two of them. It doesn’t matter that Luffy wasn’t fighting back because Luffy already accepted that it was a fight between men.

It was all written out in black and white.

A fight between men? You're telling me a grown man like Sanji couldn't realise it's wrong to beat up a friend who's not even fighting back? What about before Luffy "accepted" this dumb challenge? What about the initial kick to Luffy's face? Was that also agreed upon?
You're defending immature and dangerous acts from Sanji.

 

[Infitima]

I always see it as not pushing Luffy away, because like you said Sanji obviously knew nothing would make Luffy stop. But Zoro laid down the law with Usopp, which Sanji was there for and agreed to. Thus he knew what got you kicked out of the crew: disrespect of the captain. He wanted to get himself kicked out of the crew, make it to where it seemed he didn't deserve to be there as well as kill any respect they had for him. Thus the whole act and why it hurt even more because he knew he was cutting that string by trying to ruin his place among them.

As for why he was accepted back. Emotional wise, we know Luffy isn't an idiot when it comes to emotional intelligence and empathy. He could tell Sanji didn't want to do it and was being coerced or forced.

Rule-wise. As in Zoro's law. This is just how I see it but I always assumed that's why Luffy punched Sanji before telling him to stop lying. Because the duel was ongoing since Luffy didn't fight back, and he didn't lose since he stood back up after getting knocked out. The winner of a duel gets to make demands of the loser or decide what happens, it's not just leaving the crew. By not fighting back, but not giving up and continuously standing, Luffy never technically lost.

When he punched Sanji after Sanji stated he had no right to come back, it continued the paused duel to which he won as Sanji gave in.

 

[Rukusho]

Did Sanji apologize?

I’ll have to do a quick scan of WCI, I could swear he did. I could be wrong.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

A fight between men? You're telling me a grown man like Sanji couldn't realise it's wrong to beat up a friend who's not even fighting back? What about before Luffy "accepted" this dumb challenge? What about the initial kick to Luffy's face? Was that also agreed upon?
You're defending immature and dangerous acts from Sanji.

Luffy agreed to the duel, and even told everyone to stand back because this was a duel between the two.

Well the people of Germa were about to shoot Luffy and Nami. Then it showed Judge watching Sanjis reaction while Sanji was wearing shackles that’ll destroy his hands and thought back on Judge saying if he doesn’t go along with the wedding they’ll kill Zeff. If he showed that he wanted to go back with Luffy Zeff and Nami would be killed and sanjis hands would be destroyed. All of this was shown in the manga right before the kick.

And immature and dangerous? Luffy made the choice to accept the duel and not fight back knowing it’d hurt Sanji more.

You sound like you’re just ignoring the manga

Post automatically merged: Dec 16, 2022

Did Sanji apologize?

I’ll have to do a quick scan of WCI, I could swear he did. I could be wrong.

Nah, because Luffy and the crew didn’t need an apology from Sanji. What Sanji did wasn’t out of disrespect or selfishness like Usopps, Sanji did what he had to to protect the crew and others. It was closer to the same thing that Robin did; which was why all Luffy and the others wanted from Sanji was him to be true to them and say that he wanted to return to the Sunny and that he wanted to be with them. Which was what happened.

 

[Usopp Haoshoku Haki]

Luffy agreed to the duel, and even told everyone to stand back because this was a duel between the two.

A duel was not agreed upon.Sanji sucker kicked his friend before any agreement.

It was closer to the same thing that Robin did;

Sanji has already experienced what Luffy is willing to do for his friends.He had no reason to do all that shit to his friend.He hurt him bad without Luffy defending himself.
Calling it a duel, doesn't make the actual thing a duel.Anyone with eyes could see that it was an one-sided beatdown and not a duel.Luffy calling it a duel doesn't give Sanji the right to do all that.Sanji should have the critical thinking to chose not to go that far.
Plus he got violent even before Luffy agreed to anything lol.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

A duel was not agreed upon.Sanji sucker kicked his friend before any agreement.

Sanji has already experienced what Luffy is willing to do for his friends.He had no reason to do all that shit to his friend.He hurt him bad without Luffy defending himself.
Calling it a duel, doesn't make the actual thing a duel.Anyone with eyes could see that it was an one-sided beatdown and not a duel.Luffy calling it a duel doesn't give Sanji the right to do all that.Sanji should have the critical thinking to chose not to go that far.
Plus he got violent even before Luffy agreed to anything lol.

1. And Luffy punched him back with a Sucker punch later? Is one okay but one not?

2. When Luffy literally chooses to stay then it was his own choice. Trying to say it was sanjis fault is just wrong when Sanji had no choice but Luffy did. (Again stated in the manga)

3. Sanji literally had no choice but to act brashly when luffy appeared out of nowhere. If he didn’t step in Nami would’ve been shot and killed. (Stated in manga)

Maybe you should actually read the arc you’re complaining about?

 

[Peenix]

A duel was not agreed upon.Sanji sucker kicked his friend before any agreement.

Sanji has already experienced what Luffy is willing to do for his friends.He had no reason to do all that shit to his friend.He hurt him bad without Luffy defending himself.
Calling it a duel, doesn't make the actual thing a duel.Anyone with eyes could see that it was an one-sided beatdown and not a duel.Luffy calling it a duel doesn't give Sanji the right to do all that.Sanji should have the critical thinking to chose not to go that far.
Plus he got violent even before Luffy agreed to anything lol.

Sanji was in a traumatic and stressful situation and acted rashly as a result
Yes, logically speaking he shouldn’t have taken that course of action, but it’s hard to blame him considering the circumstances

 

[Usopp Haoshoku Haki]

Sanji was in a traumatic and stressful situation and acted rashly as a result
Yes, logically speaking he shouldn’t have taken that course of action, but it’s hard to blame him considering the circumstances

Usopp was extremely stressed and depressed too.He made a mistake and was eventually confronted and made to apologize for that.Why doesn't that apply to Sanji too?

 

[BattalGazi]

Sanji challenged luffy to a duel and Luffy accepted.

Sanji wanted to cut ties to the crew to ensure none of them got hurt if he failed to break off this wedding.

Luffy not fighting back was his choice. And it was because Luffy knew the pain that he was feeling is not as bad as how much it hurt Sanji to do it.

And why he did it? Because it’s literally the same thing Usopp did when he was leaving the crew. And Luffy accepted Usopps leaving, so Sanji had no reason to think Luffy wouldn’t accept sanjis.

It’s like people forget that Luffy himself said it was a duel between the two of them. It doesn’t matter that Luffy wasn’t fighting back because Luffy already accepted that it was a fight between men.

It was all written out in black and white.

Also Luffy won that duel by not fighting back because in that duel Sanji tried Luffy to hate him by being despicable as possible but still lost. Lets also not forget Sanji took responsibility of his actions, unlike Usopp who wanted to sweep it under the rug which Zoros disagreement came from. Usopps actions was on a whim which came from his insecurities while Sanji has legit reasons to save his family while also trying to not get his crew involved his mess. In the end Luffy won the duel with Sanji and made Bigmom a clown which was confirmed after a clown literally replaced her. WCI was a showing to us that Sanjis selfless sacrificing nature and as his friend Luffy trying to stop him and showing him he has much more value then he assumes by saying he can't become PK. Anyway this matter resolved there and lets not try to use it to attack Sanji, even Luffys brother Ace didn't wanted him to involved in Marinefold also Sabo did something similiar to Luffy too.

Now that i think about it in Wanos 4-5th arc Zoro may get caotured for execution and strawhats may save him but at the end he sacrifices himsef for Sanji and become a DF which Sanji may eat.

 

[Peroroncino]

I remember when momentarily knocking out a drained defenseless hakiless Luffy with 9 DJ attacks was considere a good AP feat by some people lmao.However that's not the point.

Sanji fans sure like to wank the shit outta that.
But i agree at least usopp asked for a fair duel

 

[Peenix]

Usopp was extremely stressed and depressed too.He made a mistake and was eventually confronted and made to apologize for that.Why doesn't that apply to Sanji too?

Usopp needed to apologize because he acted stubbornly and refused to listen to reason. That’s what he needed to apologize for; not the fact that he fought Luffy. Sanji acted rashly out of emotional trauma one time. His situation was fundamentally different from Usopp’s.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

What I think was never properly addressed in the story is Sanji's behaviour towards Luffy in Wholecake Island.I am obviously referring to the incident where he delivers an one-sided beatdown on an already drained Luffy that isn't even defending himself.

To me, this act has always been irredeemable.You can argue all you want but there's no way anyone in their right mind would think that beating the shit out of Luffy would somehow stop him from still going after Sanji.Sanji himself has witness Ennies Lobby and seen the lengths that Luffy went to, to save Robin even though she had been on the ship for a very short time.

It's common sense for everyone following the story, and it should also be common sense for Sanji since he's experienced Luffy for far too long, that you just can't stop him from helping you.Hurting a friend that's not even fighting back is disgraceful.

I don't ever see someone like Zoro, Franky or Brook doing that to Luffy.To be honest I always wanted this to be properly addressed since Nami was there too and there's no reason for it to be a secret.Sanji didn't redeem himself in any way.Sanji did something way worse than what Usopp did in Water7 yet he was never confronted for it.It was literally forgotten just like that.

I am pretty damn sure that if Zoro ever learned about that, there would certainly be conflict/ confrontation, as it should be.However I sadly don't think that Oda wants to go that route again and he just chose to leave the whole thing in the past, disregarding Sanji's disrespect and Zoro's W7 speech on disrespecting the captain.

Sanji acted this way because of his trauma. That should be common sense.
You're just here to shit in Sanji🙄🙄