Character Discussion So Kaido is right!? Might does in fact make right?

[draganax]

doflamingo said so all the way back during marineford.
"it's the job of those at the top to decide what's good and what's evil".

even higurashi and the former korozomi daimyo seemed to think the same way.
"he who stands at the top writes the rules".

common sense doesn't make kaido special or more right than others.
he's just a salty doomer destined to fail, who wants to drag the entire world into the battlefield, but in reality he does nothing but hide in an isolated country for decades.

 

[Fn Lucci]

The only shonen where this is really a problem is Rurouni Kenshin, because Kenshin refuses to fight and it turns out that it's all he can do. But even there you can say maybe there's a way that Watsuki addresses it.

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

shouldnt this have been clear the entire story
luffy doesnt get to be free on the seas if he isnt strong enough to hold his own.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Luffy already let it clear he is Luffy and not JoyBoy or Nika.

Zoro otherwise... he may return as JoyBoy or Nika.

Well the story still says Luffy is Joyboy and we know by now, Plot >>>> everything in one piece
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And Big Mom is right in wanting a world where everybody gets along

@Roo
but Big mom wants a world where people get along UNDER HER COMMAND… That last part was what was proven wrong

Kaido wants a world where only the strongest make the rules and he’s right. The person that will change the world is in fact Joyboy who is the strongest person

As of now, nothing about Kaido’s philosophy has been disproven
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Joyboy is Joyboy because he brings happiness to others and makes friends easily

@Peenix To Kaido, Joyboy is the person that will change the world AND DEFEAT HIM

And to Kaido, only the strongest people should decide how the world works

And everything above that kaido believes is proven correct by the story

 

[Kiddoo]

Kaido must have probably grown up sleeping with a kanabo, snorting gunpowder and training like there's no tomorrow until his hard hands bled. He was probably trained by veterans of a mercenary country since he was 5 years old. He lived in wars, fought his whole life. He spent most important stages of his brain development having to fight. Then he was sold. He continued fighting on the seas as a pirate, but here, living his ideology since he was 13 years old, looting ships, raiding islands, fighting on Hachinosu Island. The character is not superficial, as he lived his ideology. Luffy has only lived his ideology for three years, Kaido since forever.

That's why the character has developed a hatred of the Tenryubito and Nobles and wants to drag them into the war. The world of One Piece is not like ours which is dominated by intelligence, the world of One Piece is dominated by power and force.

He's a psychopath too, so his world of violence is like Valhalla, it's a hobby.

 

[uyuu]

Might makes right is possibly the only insight into Kaido’s character from this flashback and I’m wondering, is he right?

Kaido seems quite content in the fact that Joyboy must be the person that beats him. And given the previous dialogue from Kaido, he also believe Joyboy is the person that will change the world

So basically Joyboy will be the person who will change the world AND they must beat Kaido. This is what Kaido thinks. And he’s right. Indeed the qualification for Joyboy is in fact the capability to beat Kaido in this regard

Which proves Kaido correct. Might makes right. Joyboy is Joyboy because he’s strong enough to be Joyboy. And to be strong enough, he must defeat Kaido.

This is quite bizzare thematically for Oda to prove the villain correct right? Has this happened before? Is this a good message? Is this supposed to be a good message?

Uh i dont get the bolded part?

Since the villain is a strong guy, Luffy just fulfill Kaiou's...criteria? ... of Joy Boy since he's able to beat him while no one should beat the embodiment of force.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Uh i dont get the bolded part?

Since the villain is a strong guy, Luffy just fulfill Kaiou's...criteria? ... of Joy Boy since he's able to beat him while no one should beat the embodiment of force.

From Kaido’s perspective, Joyboy must be strong enough to beat him… And he’s right… which is weird because it feeds into his philosophy, only the strong should change the world and he thought he was the strongest so he wanted to create his world of violence… but since he has been shown that Joyboy exists then its fine, because joyboy beating him proves he is in fact the strongest and should be the one to change the world

understand? Like nothing Luffy is doing is subverting Kaido’s beliefs… In fact Luffy is proving kaido right

 

[uyuu]

From Kaido’s perspective, Joyboy must be strong enough to beat him… And he’s right… which is weird because it feeds into his philosophy, only the strong should change the world and he thought he was the strongest so he wanted to create his world of violence… but since he has been shown that Joyboy exists then its fine, because joyboy beating him proves he is in fact the strongest and should be the one to change the world

understand? Like nothing Luffy is doing is subverting Kaido’s beliefs… In fact Luffy is proving kaido right

Not from that angle imo, its not a matter of proving Kaidou right. In chapter 1013 Kaidou is disappointed since Luffy couldnt be Joy Boy. But now Luffy finally meets Kaidou's criteria/expectation of Joy Boy's strength, while Luffy also had other traits of Joy Boy who Zunisha was friends with. Its a matter of fulfilling expectation (from important characters, like Zunisha and Kaidou) of being Joy Boy.

 

[Jailer]

Luffy already let it clear he is Luffy and not JoyBoy or Nika.

Zoro otherwise... he may return as JoyBoy or Nika.

 

[Finalbeta]

Could it be that Zoro's ambition is also related to this?

Yep I think so

He is well aware, but he also loves to fight and improve himself and push his limits further and doesn't even surrender

The Grandmaster is not much different from a Saiyan when it comes to battles and spirit I think

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Not from that angle imo, its not a matter of proving Kaidou right. In chapter 1013 Kaidou is disappointed since Luffy couldnt be Joy Boy. But now Luffy finally meets Kaidou's criteria/expectation of Joy Boy's strength, while Luffy also had other traits of Joy Boy who Zunisha was friends with. Its a matter of fulfilling expectation (from important characters, like Zunisha and Kaidou) of being Joy Boy.

Well yeah there’s prophecies and whatever but Kaido doesnt seem to care about that… He didnt say “Joyboy will be the man to open wano’s border or bring the dawn of the world”

All kaido says and cares about is Strength and the fact that only the strong should decide what happens to the world… And he’s right… Luffy proved himself strong enough in Kaido’s eyes to be joyboy and change the world…

Which is weird because if thats it and kaido gets arrested or killed or whatever, his story will end with him thinking he was right all along

 

[Fn Lucci]

He's always been right about that, that's not the issue. Just because he's a villain doesn't mean he's wrong about everything. He's simply wrong in how he goes about using his own strength.

 

[uyuu]

Well yeah there’s prophecies and whatever but Kaido doesnt seem to care about that… He didnt say “Joyboy will be the man to open wano’s border or bring the dawn of the world”

All kaido says and cares about is Strength and the fact that only the strong should decide what happens to the world… And he’s right… Luffy proved himself strong enough in Kaido’s eyes to be joyboy and change the world…

Which is weird because if thats it and kaido gets arrested or killed or whatever, his story will end with him thinking he was right all along

Somewhat like Katakuri who finally admitted Luffy as his equal in WCI? Maybe in some way, Kaidou's character arc is his prediction being proven right, and his search for someone worthy is finally over, since Luffy has proven his worth, surpassing Kaidou, which Kaidou approves.

 

[Kurozumi Giggio]

Kizaru said it best , determination will only bring you so far , to shape reality you need power

 

[Finalbeta]

Kizaru said it best , determination will only bring you so far , to shape reality you need power

Yep we witnessed that when Luffy tried to rescue his old brother And overall still failed despite he managed to free him

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

LOL, Kaido always want a strong dude to beat his ass though? Luffy beats him and Kaido's wish got fulfilled, both sides wins.

 

[Finalbeta]

LOL, Kaido always want a strong dude to beat his ass though? Luffy beats him and Kaido's wish got fulfilled, both sides wins.

Indeed. He praised strenght a lot.