Character Discussion So Sanji's emotions didn't make him stronger. Now, does that mean that Judge was right all along? Please explain!

#61
Didn’t Germa 66 almost fall to ruin because of Judge?

Aren’t Judge, Ichiji, Niji, Yonji, and Reiju only alive because of Sanji’s emotions? I fail to see how this proves Judge was right

Judge considers Sanji a failure and Yonji a success... yet Yonji got negged by WCI Sanji and would've lost to Queen in an instant.

If anything this chapter shows me that Sanji needs to combine his passion with his birthright to succeed... which isn’t really a bad thing

Judge’s successes would’ve lost and Sanji before he unlocked the exoskeleton would’ve lost too

It’s pretty obvious that Oda’s trying to set up a moment where Sanji accepts that he’s a Vinsmoke and he’ll start using their powers for his own benefit
 
#63
Sanji has the same genes as his brothers but is way stronger because of his emotions and will, he wants to be stronger for luffy because he wants to protect him,something his brothers are utterly incapable of understanding

Judge was wrong, since his children would've been all as strong as sanji if he allowed them to have emotions and was a decent father to them
 
#65
Up till 1028
Niji and Ichiji is superior to Sanji
Did we need to see Sanji beat each and every member of Germa? Sanji defeating Yonji was Oda's way of telling us he's stronger. anji didn't fight any other commander and went for the "boss" so to speak. One Piece logic means that Judge is stronger than his subordinates, and Judge takes on the strongest -- Big Mom while the others fight officers, Snack, while the others fight Ministers, and so on.

If Niji and Ichiji were stronger than Sanji, then they would have shown it in a fight. Sanji beating the most physically focused Vinsmoke means he's stronger, period. Sanji is also stronger *now* because his enhancements are building on a stronger "base."
 
#66
I've been trying to "hammer" this point on for months at this point, but it seems like Oda can't really grasp the "severity" of the situation with Sanji's character writing, he simply cannot see the bigger picture behind his narrative. Sanji is the only one who has his emotions intact amongst Judge's children, yes, Reiju was kind towards Sanji but her emotions aren't intact, unlike in case of Sanji, and Judge tried to erase his children's emotions because he thought that emotions are weaknesses–and only by erasing them you can become strong. And throughout post-timskip one piece, AND SPICEFICLY POST-TIMSKIP ONE PIECE, where Sanji's Germa plot line has been revealed, Sanji's emotions never played any role in his success, as matter of fact, they were behind Sanji's humiliations and most miserable failures. It was because of Sanji's emotions that Sanji: Lost to Judge, got manipulated and used by his family, attacked his own captain, put his friends in a very dangerous position etc. And now, in the battle against Queen when Sanji has the opportunity to achieve a success thanks to his emotions, thanks to his willpower and the desire to protect his loved ones... HE JUST AWAKENS THE GERMA GENES THANKS TO THE RAID SUIT!!!
:lawsigh::lusalty:

Sanji's plot line has been developed so poorly, that at the and of that plot line, it turns out that Judge was right all along. How could Oda f*ck this up soooooooooooooooooo badly? How? What was he thinking?

How the fu*king hell he failed to see that GIANT hole in his own narrative?
Please, sobody, explain to me how this happened, how could an established author do such a horrendous mistake???
@Queen
@Zoro
@Van
@playa4321
@Celestia
@Grumpy Zoro
@Ice devil slayer
@KiriNigiri
@Veljko2000
@rednose
@Winsmoke Sanji
@Monet
@Veku
@BigChungus2018
@Crooc
@Reborn
@BossYimz
@Robin swan
@gojo
@Fenaker
@PuckTheGreat
@RayanOO
@ShishioIsBack
@Orojackson Refugee
@Greenbeard
@Dragomir
@Sword God Ryuma
@Sentinel
@IceWitch
@Himura
@DarkWitch
@stormylife
@Mr. Anderson
@yunzabit heights
@Monster trio
@Vonal
@Don DaSlayer
@Xione
@Master OF Haki
@Topi Jerami
@Yukihime
@bennbeckman
@Thabeast
@SaintBellkin
@SinOfGreed
@Zenos7
@Lucas
@JioFreed
@pedxi
@Zowo
@Luslec
@style
@Luffy is the mc
@Guymieux
@Mikail
@KINGKONGGUN15
@RyumaZoro
@worst pirate
@ZenZu
@LuffyMazino
@Im_not_Osama_bin_laden
@HAJIKATA
@Jackteo
@Tamerani
@Marimo_420
@Garp the Fist
@Kejon
@Fukki
@Flower
@Sunita
@RZ.119
@Sade
@Skiddo
@KageyamaShoyo
@Den_Den_Mushi
@Elcadar
@Finalbeta
@Bullet
@Dark Hound
@Patryipe
@Light D Lamperouge
@Enma
@Owl Ki
@ZoroIsOverrated
@ShinmenTakezo
@Jack
@Admiral Lee Hung
@Bogard
@Starbound Beast D. Draig
@Shiroyru
@Camie
@ShadyOjiro
@Benn beck
@SethTrollins
@MarimoHeado
@Foxy Bunny
@Bittersteel
@comrade
@Cyrus the Cactus
@OmegaPsyche
@SHIHI
@Zoro D Goat
@critical mindset
@kurwa
@WillOfMyD
@Jo_Ndule
@Reddot4
@Exodia.
@nik87
@Sakura no Hiluluk
@Usopp Haoshoku Haki
@Gambit
@Monkey D Theories
@TheAncientCenturion
@Haoshoku
@Geo
@Yo Tan Wa
@Izaya X
@Gon’s Missing Arm
@Albino 👑
@MasterD
@SmokedOut
@HeroesNZ
@Cinera
@Murilo
@Dark Knight Sanji
@Afroking
@Rosella.Fiamingo
@Chaves
@Rivaille
@Nidai_Kitetsu
@MonsterZoro
@Gol D. Roger
@Soleus
@Aknolagon
@Emperor Nami
@Constantine
@Gensui Sazid
@K!NG HARA$H!MA
@Hanzo hattori
@Buggy D Clown
@silverfire
@yorosenpai
@Tenshi No Konan
@Guan Yu
@Artorias
@Kiwipom
@zorojurou
@MD Zolo
@Brix
@Chrono
@HA001
@Sadistic Senpai
@bblue
@MarineHQ62
@KenshiraSonata
@Erkan12
@Buusatan94
@Celestial D. Dragon
So really you think this is sanjis final PU and his not goner get another PU that relates his emotions that is connected to fire, why do people think this way with one piece judging a aspect of the plot or a character with only the latest chapter and not waiting to see what's goner happen?
 
Last edited:
#67
I think that probably is the best way to marry the two going forward.

But it would be more effective if there had been any hints up until now that Hell Memories was something that strained Sanji. As it is, it would be solving a problem that doesn’t actually exist.



It’s not to early to make the call that I hate Sanji having to rely on Judge’s work, though. That’s my problem with the RS and the exoskeleton, and time won’t change that.
Hypothetically, if it does turn out that Hell's Memories does in fact damage Sanji's body, and Oda didn't highlight that aspect of it after it's reveal, I can understand the thought process behind it. If he's going to introduce the Germa and the Exoskeleton, then knowing about an ability that damages Sanji's body prior to that, pretty much confirms he's going to get the exoskeleton the second it is revealed.

If I'm not mistaken, didn't Diable Jambe seem to damage Sanji's foot on Sabaody? I'll have to go back and read it, but if that's the case, then I guess we can apply the same principle to Hell's Memories. But if that's the case, we really shouldn't have to go so far back into the story to make that kind of connection. Most fans wouldn't do that.

This is something I've noticed that Oda tends to do a lot in order to give that "AHA moment" as the payoff. But keeping things so shrouded in mystery all the time is a double edge sword. On one end of the spectrum it keeps the readers invested, but on the other end, when things do happen, we're like, I can see the logic behind it, but why weren't more subtle hints given to make it feel more complete.
 
#68
If I'm not mistaken, didn't Diable Jambe seem to damage Sanji's foot on Sabaody? I'll have to go back and read it, but if that's the case, then I guess we can apply the same principle to Hell's Memories. But if that's the case, we really shouldn't have to go so far back into the story to make that kind of connection. Most fans wouldn't do that.
Yeah, at some point pre-skip (I’m thinking Oars?) Sanji definitely said something about not being able to use DJ too much.

But it’s been so long ago, we’ve had the timeskip, Sanji has used DJ so liberally without any side effects since that if Oda tries to tell me “the exoskeleton is neccesary for Sanji to use DJ/Hell Memories”, then my face looks something like this



Cause if you want to build something up as a solution to a problem… you really need to show the problem happening more than once ten plus years ago.
 
#69
Hypothetically, if it does turn out that Hell's Memories does in fact damage Sanji's body, and Oda didn't highlight that aspect of it after it's reveal, I can understand the thought process behind it. If he's going to introduce the Germa and the Exoskeleton, then knowing about an ability that damages Sanji's body prior to that, pretty much confirms he's going to get the exoskeleton the second it is revealed.

If I'm not mistaken, didn't Diable Jambe seem to damage Sanji's foot on Sabaody? I'll have to go back and read it, but if that's the case, then I guess we can apply the same principle to Hell's Memories. But if that's the case, we really shouldn't have to go so far back into the story to make that kind of connection. Most fans wouldn't do that.

This is something I've noticed that Oda tends to do a lot in order to give that "AHA moment" as the payoff. But keeping things so shrouded in mystery all the time is a double edge sword. On one end of the spectrum it keeps the readers invested, but on the other end, when things do happen, we're like, I can see the logic behind it, but why weren't more subtle hints given to make it feel more complete.
No, it was established that Kuma hurt Sanji's foot already. Multiple kicks to a pacifista would eventually be too much to take.


 
#70
Did we need to see Sanji beat each and every member of Germa? Sanji defeating Yonji was Oda's way of telling us he's stronger. anji didn't fight any other commander and went for the "boss" so to speak. One Piece logic means that Judge is stronger than his subordinates, and Judge takes on the strongest -- Big Mom while the others fight officers, Snack, while the others fight Ministers, and so on.

If Niji and Ichiji were stronger than Sanji, then they would have shown it in a fight. Sanji beating the most physically focused Vinsmoke means he's stronger, period. Sanji is also stronger *now* because his enhancements are building on a stronger "base."
Yes beating the weakest Vinsmoke told us he stronger lmao. What did Oda show us at the end of WCI. Make fodders shoot him and Niji blitz him. Something the Vinsmokes could do. Ichji literally blitz Perospero who around Yc4. No Sanji beating the weakest Vinsmoke doesn’t prove he stronger. What kinda dumbass logic
Post automatically merged:

when he was already stronger.. yea we know
He wasn't and noting proves that. Sanji got neg by yc2 Doffy and beat people like Sheaphead, The weakest Vinsmoke, Wadasumsi( with Jinbei help) and sheapshead.
 
#71
Judge was right? no
It is precisely because Sanji is a kind man that he chose to save his family and judge survived, which is enough to prove judge's failure

If you read the cartoon carefully, you will know that Sanji's strength comes from his own efforts

But maybe it's an irony. We can't escape our blood after all,If you can't change it, you have to accept it

Sanji may accept this fact, as for what reason to accept it will test Oda's ability

Finally, don't forget Sanji's words
The most important thing for people is heart
 
#72
Yes beating the weakest Vinsmoke told us he stronger lmao. What did Oda show us at the end of WCI. Make fodders shoot him and Niji blitz him. Something the Vinsmokes could do. Ichji literally blitz Perospero who around Yc4. No Sanji beating the weakest Vinsmoke doesn’t prove he stronger. What kinda dumbass logic
Post automatically merged:


He wasn't and noting proves that. Sanji got neg by yc2 Doffy and beat people like Sheaphead, The weakest Vinsmoke, Wadasumsi( with Jinbei help) and sheapshead.
Sanji negging the "Weakest" Vinsmoke doesn't tell us he's stronger than them when Judge himself said Yonji is strong and there's nothing that puts Yonji far beneath Ichiji or Niji

Unless you have something that shows that
 
#73
its pretty clear that Judge misjudged his judgment on Sanji :myman:.

The entire Germa plot line showed us that Judge and his emotionless sons almost cost him his entire kingdom and the Germa Legacy. the fact that Sanji was the one to save them because of said "emotion" proves that Sanj wasn't a failure to Germa but a Savior and the recent revelation might make Sanji the "Master Piece" of Germa. :goyea:. I mean comon do you actually think that Oda told us that story just to show us that Sanji is trash? :seriously:

All the SHs are Exceptional and Special Characters that will surpass everyone in the entire history of OP. :goyea:
 

Finalbeta

Science Nerd 🌌 🌍 🧬 ⚛️
.
#74
Oda will probably not allow Sanji to lose his emotions. That would be bad and Luffy is used to resolve bad things that at least occur within his own crew. Though losing them momentarily is not to rule out as fiercely, and still perhaps the way to get out of it would be due Chopper's help or Sanji's own realizations.
 
#75
The Raid Suit even nerfed Sanji and dragged him down in the fight, even Zoro saw that, his choices did it to him, its due to his choices that Momonosuke is alive, and Robin, Nami and Shinobu didn't got captured.

Its because of Sanji's kindness that his family is alive and lend to him his birthright powers, its because of his will to help his friends/allies that he used the Raid Suit, and now he is awakening his powers because of that.

What do you even mean by "victory"? Sanji kicking the shit out of someone or doing his equivalent of "licking a sword" while smiling? If Sanji wants to save someone, and he indeed accomplishes that despite getting hurt for whatever reason in a chaotic situation, then it isn't a victory?

I dunno man, these points you made look weak for me. All of Judge's reasonings towards Sanji being a failure correlates to the person Sanji is, which is heavily influenced by Zeff, throughout the whole WCI arc we can see Sanji showing to be superior even to his genetically modified siblings and father, to the point they needed to threat Sanji by saying they will cut off Zeff's head and kill Sanji's friends in the Baratie, or beat innocent women to piss Sanji off, or use innocent people as shields against Sanji.

How could Judge prove himself right doing all of this shit? Specially when it was because of the things he hated on Sanji that Judge is alive?

It's Sanji who proved them wrong during the whole thing cuz they wouldn't even be alive, and Germa was extremely important at making the Strawhats escape WCI.

Awakening his birthright powers, or eating a broken Devil Fruit, its all about power/getting stronger anyway.

Sanji is a Vinsmoke and nothing will change that, but it doesn't make him a literal copy of his siblings and father, since Oda can follow lots of different ways with Sanji's character from now on, in both character development and overall strength growth, thats what really matters the most here by far

Sanji awakening these powers is just a little part of the whole thing that always made part of his life, he wanting or not.

And don't forget that Sanji's siblings are all victims of Judge, they didn't had any choice, they were literally born as mindless soldiers fated to obey Judge in any situation.
 
Last edited:
#77
Didn’t Germa 66 almost fall to ruin because of Judge?

Aren’t Judge, Ichiji, Niji, Yonji, and Reiju only alive because of Sanji’s emotions? I fail to see how this proves Judge was right

Judge considers Sanji a failure and Yonji a success... yet Yonji got negged by WCI Sanji and would've lost to Queen in an instant.

If anything this chapter shows me that Sanji needs to combine his passion with his birthright to succeed... which isn’t really a bad thing

Judge’s successes would’ve lost and Sanji before he unlocked the exoskeleton would’ve lost too

It’s pretty obvious that Oda’s trying to set up a moment where Sanji accepts that he’s a Vinsmoke and he’ll start using their powers for his own benefit
I like how only in wg that people dont understand the sanji's development.
literally all other forums online understand, even trashdit

are we really that stupid guys come on
Post automatically merged:

Sanji has the same genes as his brothers but is way stronger because of his emotions and will, he wants to be stronger for luffy because he wants to protect him,something his brothers are utterly incapable of understanding

Judge was wrong, since his children would've been all as strong as sanji if he allowed them to have emotions and was a decent father to them
its this easy guys
 
#79
I love the idea that this revelation breaks his pride. Like I remember the chapter where he first did DJ, and as cool as it was, it also seemed too random. Like he just uses his leg as a matchstick and later doesn't even need his kickstart.

Bigger flame kicks and some invisibility in addition to his new toughness, and Sanji is a legit third place.
 
Top