Sonic vs star wars. How to take criticism

#1
The sonic movie had a critique of how the design of the character and so they listened to their customers then changed things to make it more appealing


and the movie did fairy well critically because of the positive fan reception


Then you get disney star wars and people made complaints of the flim
maybe rey was too overpowered or too much like luke or whatever

Instead of trying things differently to see how they can improve and better sasifify their customers
they call all the fans toxic and maybe some of them are mean spirited but doing as a huge company really shows immaturity on their part
they arent a random discord user who can shit talk randos, they have to possess some conduct as a. it looks chilush for someone with millions of dollars to get upset over what two people on reddit or whatever think about you

And thing being too
you get people saying, well they cant make changes of the movie for you

Video game patches have been doing that for years now, changing balancing issues and bugs that fans had issues with
But a big studio gets a pass on not trying to improve their product. Yea sure make excuses for the corpo
 
#2
Star wars fans WERE toxic.

.. And racist..
.. And sexist..

Against the characters and the cast. This was not just some mad fans, it was a mass phenomenon with thousands of tweets and posts against the cast and especially the actresses.

That's not acceptable.


well they cant make changes of the movie for you
They shouldn't have to.


Video game patches have been doing that for years now, changing balancing issues and bugs that fans had issues with
But a big studio gets a pass on not trying to improve their product. Yea sure make excuses for the corpo
Movies are not video game, sometimes they are meant to do more than please you. Sometimes - like in the case of the last Jedi - they are here to make you question the story, question the universe, question yourself.

By trying to listen to the fans (in short doing exactly what you want), they made the nineth movie, which is a pure $%#§?!
So, let them do their thing, have some compassion for the cast

And watch Andor.
 
#3
Star wars fans WERE toxic.

.. And racist..
.. And sexist..
Some would be

Cant say if all were
And they disliked the prequels and hell alot of people still dont like them

So im going to say, the reason they didt like the flim was not sexism
unless your saying they are sexist towards anakin


If there is a issue with the protagonist
I dont think it's related to sex, If it was the case then why does nobody hate princess leia

she was one of the main characters of the ot



They shouldn't have to.

they should
it's not a project your doing on the side for yourself

if you wanna make executive decisions without criticism or appealing to other people aside from yourself then make fan fiction
you dont have those issues with fan fiction as unlike with a star wars, your not trying to sell it to comsumers

If im going to mcdonalds and im asking for a French fries and they do it wrong
they should fix the order, I am asking for a service in exchange of money and their jobs as the provider is give me the experience im to want

like in the case of the last Jedi - they are here to make you question the story, question the universe, question yourself.
What does the last ledi even question?
That you should kill the past to make way with the new




that's not a deep message
and that's literally the message of the flim


and it's not even a good lession at that
As if you dont learn history, you seek to repeat it


By trying to listen to the fans (in short doing exactly what you want), they made the nineth movie, which is a pure $%#§?!
I just mean like take criticism
And dont be a spiteful a hole about it

If you made a drawing and it had some issues
And then suggested you dix those issues, Would that be bad?

and lol at saying that movie was made to appeal to fans
It was so dog shit that even the professional stans for the last jedi apparently like yourself hated it


So, let them do their thing, have some compassion for the cast
Me saying
they should be more like sonic flim and try to improve based on fan critique is not the same as condoning people harassing and throwing slurs at the actors

Daisy ridley was just paid to act the character, she had no part in the writing so to get mad at her over it would be stupid not only that it makes the honest crirtism look bad
Like if a racist says grass is green then he's right not because him being racist is justified or right, It's because you dont have to be a good person to be correct or have a valid point

and to say one more thing before leaving to do something else
Star wars here was more of a general example of how flim studios should not act


and people insulting like the black girl in obi wan show
Whilie it can be seen as wrong and immature


those igorant people do not take away from those trying to make honest critiques
 
#7
Some would be

Cant say if all were
#notallfan... come on.

This was a global problem. Of course not all fan were that way, but there was still a good amount if not the majority of posters.


So im going to say, the reason they didt like the flim was not sexism
unless your saying they are sexist towards anakin
That's not what I implied.


If there is a issue with the protagonist
I dont think it's related to sex, If it was the case then why does nobody hate princess leia

she was one of the main characters of the ot
Indeed.


they should
it's not a project your doing on the side for yourself

if you wanna make executive decisions without criticism or appealing to other people aside from yourself then make fan fiction
you dont have those issues with fan fiction as unlike with a star wars, your not trying to sell it to comsumers
There is a difference between creating something to be displeasing even intentionnaly and something to make you question yourself and the story. The 9th film was intentionnaly displeasing, the eighth was not, it was a good film with things that upsets the fanbase for illegitimate reason.

It was just a movie that was made to subvert your expectations, and fans..didn't like it. Just like they sometimes do not understand the choices of Oda here:


If im going to mcdonalds and im asking for a French fries and they do it wrong
Movies are not a command on mcDonald, it's a creation. Creation are not created to be what you expect them to be. AND SHOULD NOT BE.

NEVER.


What does the last ledi even question?
Well here are some answers:



I just mean like take criticism
And dont be a spiteful a hole about it

If you made a drawing and it had some issues
And then suggested you dix those issues, Would that be bad?

and lol at saying that movie was made to appeal to fans
It was so dog shit that even the professional stans for the last jedi apparently like yourself hated it
Because this was a movie that was made to "undo" the "mistakes" of the 8th one. But the "mistakes" of the eight one weren't mistakes, there were bold choices to take the story into a new direction, those were actually good choices. But because fan ranted.. the production panicked and created that thing.


they should be more like sonic flim and try to improve based on fan critique
They did that and it doesn't work. Fan are not writers. They are fans. They don't know the reason behind the choices of the story, they don't know the reasons behind storylines, they are just guessing.

Sonic was a special case of obvious design problem. But...
Imagine one moment if Oda started to listen at fans.. One Piece would become dogs**t.

Let creators do their work, let the fan analyse AFTER the fact but don't mix the two.
 
#8
This was a global problem. Of course not all fan were that way, but there was still a good amount if not the majority of posters.

Yea there was millions of fans just attacking people
no

There was a minority who did that
hell even people who go online to voice opinions on media are minority


Movies are not a command on mcDonald, it's a creation. Creation are not created to be what you expect them to be. AND SHOULD NOT BE.
The comparison makes perfect sense
you order from a fast food restaurant with the intent of getting food in the same way you pay for movie tickets expecting a certain experience


Well here are some answers:
Defying your expectations is a shit argument and it's not even a question the film poses thematically or literally
there's more let the past die type stuff honestly if anything else

eg finn killing captain phrasma who was his commander in the past


But to address your point, If you really wanted to defy expectations then why not make the entire movie a western or a romantic drama?
Is that because you expect a certain genre going into a star wars flim? I thought it was about defying your preconceived notions?


Listen if your only feature is that your defiant bastard who goes against norms cause why not. then your not offering anything and just acting like a rebellious child
Defying someone or something can be good if it has proper reason behind it but just saying it defied what you wanted aint a good reason in it of itself

We have expectations for solid reasons
you generally dont expect to get knifed to death by a girl or guy you like
I dont know if your gay or not so said ether gender but point being there, your acting in supposition of the person being civil or nice cause ideally you want to have a good time

same goes with literally even this conversation, you expected me to reply in some form of reasonable manner right?
What if i just told you to fuck off. Would that be good and virtuous according to you afterall it defined what was already expected

No it's not and we have expectations for reasons, Hell every detail you live right now is based off an already existing thing in society
like if you walk up to someone and say hello then your acting your supposition, they both speak english and wont ignore you aswell as be nice


you have so many engrained expectations derived from reason,experience and idealism
that this argument of defy expections is just stupid


Because this was a movie that was made to "undo" the "mistakes" of the 8th one.
What ''mistake'' did JJ fix
Only things he changed from rian's flim was the thing about the holdo maneuver

and that was only made so the space battle which jj was going for would make more sense


that was narratively focused not to undo any mistakes


They even kept the bit about rey's parents being nobodies
It was her grandpa sheev who was notable

I think it's said that her father canr even use the force in the novel
 
#9
Yea there was millions of fans just attacking people
no

There was a minority who did that
hell even people who go online to voice opinions on media are minority
I said the majority of POSTERS not the majority of fans. And yes it was a majority of poster, if not about sexism it was about delegitimizing some of the cast and this can been seen since SW 7.

Don't even try to defend that fanbase.


The comparison makes perfect sense
you order from a fast food restaurant with the intent of getting food in the same way you pay for movie tickets expecting a certain experience
You go for an experience exactly. You don't preorder a story or a creation. Experience can be subvertive or otherwise. Spectator should NOT seek for what they want to see, but what that can surprise them.


Defying your expectations is a shit argument
No. It's literally the purpose of good pop culture stories.


But to address your point, If you really wanted to defy expectations then why not make the entire movie a western or a romantic drama?
Because stories doesn't work like that.
SW is already a western and the last jedi is ALSO a romantic drama.
You should now as a One Piece fan that expectation are not subverted by the genre of the story but by the story itself.

We have expectations for solid reasons
No.
You should only hold expectations for what was setup in the story.

Ex in Star Wars:

Concerning Luke, you should only hold the expectation that Luke is still a master at using the force. But looking at the 8th film, you shouldn't hold the expectation that he is the same person you left in the return of the JedI. Why ? Because human change.

Ex in One Piece:

In whole cake, you shouldn't hold the expectation of Sanji having a fight. Two reason for that: 1. Sanji is a cook, not a fighter, making him have a fight in an arc centered around his character would be outside of characterization. 2. The entire arc is centered around the acceptation of Sanji being a kind person, someone who help others by his cooking and being great BECAUSE he doesn't fight.

I call those two example "Illegitimate expectations" those are expectations fans hold because of either a lack of knowledge into the characterization of characters or a great desire to see their favorite character go badass for no reason.
Illegitimate expectations are hurtfull, not only for the fanbase because it create dissapointment (like with the case of the last JEdi or Whole cake) but also with the creator as it puts a pressure on them that is completely bonkers and unneeded.

Illegitimate expectation are the reason why Star Wars 9 failed. So stop it and let creator create.

What ''mistake'' did JJ fix
Only things he changed from rian's flim was the thing about the holdo maneuver
There is a lot more than that on a deep scale in term of narration. And frankly I do not want to dive into those anymore, I hate this movie.
 
#11
Concerning Luke, you should only hold the expectation that Luke is still a master at using the force. But looking at the 8thĺ film, you shouldn't hold the expectation that he is the same person you left in the return of the JedI. Why ? Because human change.
But the reason he changed was stupid, he randomly get a vision that showed his nephew being the next darth vader and the first thought he was killing his nephew, this would be bad for other characters to do but it's worst with luke because of what he went though with his father seeing the good in vader someone who done so much horrible stuff but still believe he can save his father from the dark side but his young innocent nephew he could stop him going to the dark side but nah time for lightsaber.
Subverting expectation only works like everything else it makes sense and if the outcome of the Subversion has substance something that last jedi didn't have.
 
#12
But the reason he changed was stupid, he randomly get a vision that showed his nephew being the next darth vader and the first thought he was killing his nephew
Indeed, he thought that this would be indeed a way to do this.. he was overwhelmed by fear and act therefore unreasonnably, which is - as a reminder - a thing that the forces tends to do with force users who can't control their emotions..

You need to remember that the forces act like a drug, if you don't control it, it will control you.

Thing is.. he overcame that. Something that Vader wouldn't have been able to do. Once again Luke stopped his hate and fear and did the right thing. Too late, yes, but he managed to control himself.

You guys need to understand that we are human, we tend to do most of our mistakes once or twice. Luke once almost made the mistake to take away his father's life, but stopped himself. THe fact that he did that didn't immunize him from doing the exact same thing once again, that's not how characters work. Character needs to learn their lesson and learn them again in a deeper way for this lesson to be really integrated.

Subverting expectation only works like everything else it makes sense and if the outcome of the Subversion has substance something that last jedi didn't have.
It had, you guys just are just holding too much on illegitimate expectations. This moment for Luke is in complete character, just as the fact that he choosed to stay away from the force (for the very reason I mentionned).
 
#13
Indeed, he thought that this would be indeed a way to do this.. he was overwhelmed by fear and act therefore unreasonnably, which is - as a reminder - a thing that the forces tends to do with force users who can't control their emotions..

You need to remember that the forces act like a drug, if you don't control it, it will control you.

Thing is.. he overcame that. Something that Vader wouldn't have been able to do. Once again Luke stopped his hate and fear and did the right thing. Too late, yes, but he managed to control himself.
We arent talking OT Luke whose been a jedi for couple years we are talking about Luke who has been a jedi for decades someone that should have control of his emotions and the force, a master like Luke shouldn't be swayed to kill his nephew especially when he can talk to yoda,obi-wan and his father to get their advice, the one of the first lessons you learned as a jedi is don't fear and anger control you but because rain wanted Luke being a old depressing hermit, Luke needed to be controlled by his fear to kill his nephew.
You guys need to understand that we are human, we tend to do most of our mistakes once or twice. Luke once almost made the mistake to take away his father's life, but stopped himself. THe fact that he did that didn't immunize him from doing the exact same thing once again, that's not how characters work. Character needs to learn their lesson and learn them again in a deeper way for this lesson to be really integrated.
No people/characters don't need repeatedly learn a lesson for them to grow as a character, especially when you're talking about a full grown adult experienced jedi master that has done multiple mistakes because he was controlled by fear/emotions like going to sky city and nearly Killing his father.
It had, you guys just are just holding too much on illegitimate expectations. This moment for Luke is in complete character, just as the fact that he choosed to stay away from the force (for the very reason I mentionned).
We were expecting Luke to be wise hopefull jedi master that had experienced many thing that has changed his look on everything since the OT and not a broken depressed alien sea cow milk drinking hermit who nearly murded his own nephew and for reason he thinks best thing for everyone is to stay on a island letting many people die including his family but no haveing a hopefull Luke who teaches characters lessons and not perfect rey palpatine teaching him a lesson is bad thing,
 
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