Versus Battle Speed vs AP vs defense

[O-Nami]

Thinking about it, I agree with the main message. Even when an amazing defense can make a nice reputation, this is not enough to create a top tier. Characters like Kaido or Madara aren't legends only for a defensive ability/body, they are legends for their power.

Remember Bartolomeo. He has probably the best defense in the OP world, but he is not even on top 40 of stronger characters even when his ability is amazing.

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

theres simply no general
one size fits all answer

depends on the fighter and how big the advantage they hold over the other is in the other stats

 

[Shiroyru]

theres simply no general
one size fits all answer

depends on the fighter and how big the advantage they hold over the other is in the other stats

Let's say you get 100 points to distribute between the 3. Which of these builds would you prefer:

Speed- 80, AP- 10, defense- 10
AP- 80, speed- 10, defense- 10
Defense- 80, speed- 10, AP- 10

 

[RayanOO]

Speed > Durability in most case

AP can be good too but less than speed and durability. A glass canon has more chance to be taken out than a speedster or a tank

Post automatically merged: Sep 25, 2023

Let's say you get 100 points to distribute between the 3. Which of these builds would you prefer:

Speed- 80, AP- 10, defense- 10
AP- 80, speed- 10, defense- 10
Defense- 80, speed- 10, AP- 10

Speed wins

 

[JoNdule]

Speed > durability > AP
AP means nothing much if someone is much faster than you or can tank your blows easily

 

[Transcendent Being]

Ap>durability>speed

 

[Daniel]

When Apocalypse vs Quiksilver fight happened where Apocalypse was getting his circles run around by the latter but managed to halt Quiksilver via restricting his ankle?

Apocalypse vs Quiksilver fight:

Apocalypse then washed him in < 10 seconds.
Even if there is a speed difference between the two combatants (within limits), if the slower opponent has the strength advantage, he/she will most likely figure out a way to close that initial speed gap.

When special abilities are involved the likelihood of having the speed gap being subverted by a stronger opponent increases drastically.

Also, when the distance between one opponent and the other increases, the given time required for the opponent to reach to the other's attacks and react accordingly also increases.

 

[CaeDBoyd]

Ap>=speed=>dura

 

[Cruxroux]

Zoro has everything on max.

 

[RayanOO]

When Apocalypse vs Quiksilver fight happened where Apocalypse was getting his circles run around by the latter but managed to halt Quiksilver via restricting his ankle?

Apocalypse vs Quiksilver fight:

Apocalypse then washed him in < 10 seconds.
Even if there is a speed difference between the two combatants (within limits), if the slower opponent has the strength advantage, he/she will most likely figure out a way to close that initial speed gap.

When special abilities are involved the likelihood of having the speed gap being subverted by a stronger opponent increases drastically.

Also, when the distance between one opponent and the other increases, the given time required for the opponent to reach to the other's attacks and react accordingly also increases.

Your exemple doesn’t really work

Because :

- Apo didn’t overcome Quicksilver speed with his AP but with his hax. Without his hax and versatility he wasn’t able to react to Quickliver.

- what saved Apo here is mainly his durability rather than his AP. Apo was indeed speedblitzed by Quick and took many punch. But they didn’t do anything or almost anything.

- Apo wasn’t slow either, his brain was fast enough to see and analyse Quicklisver path and use his powers to stop him

If Apo was a normal human durable wise, he would have been speed blitzed instantly and killed.

‘if you have two equally skilled guys :

100 AP
50 Dura
50 Speed

And 50 AP
50 Dura
100 Speed

i bet on the 100 speed all day . Speed is giving you more options.

But often in fights other things are taken into account : experience, smarts, etc etc

 

[Daniel]

Apo didn’t overcome Quicksilver speed with his AP but with his hax. Without his hax and versatility he wasn’t able to react to Quickliver.

- what saved Apo here is mainly his durability rather than his AP. Apo was indeed speedblitzed by Quick and took many punch. But they didn’t do anything or almost anything

Hax/versality advantage that one combatant would have over the other was already taken into account in this sentence below.

When special abilities are involved the likelihood of having the speed gap being subverted by a stronger opponent increases drastically.

Just a tidbit regarding Apo's durability here.

In fight scenarios, a character's durability and AP/destructive ability typically scale directly to each other, except for certain cases where a character's durability (including defensive abilities/barriers) is showcased. Apocalypse demonstrated this effectively when he dismantled Quicksilver in less than 10 seconds after halting the latter. It was proven clearly in the fight (if it was even one) that Apocalypse was stronger than Quicksilver in that scene, both in physical strength and durability.

+

Apocalypse's ability to manipulate the terrain to halt Quicksilver's movement, thereby instantly removing Quicksilver's speed advantage, is further evidence that special abilities used by a character can play a role in negating a speed gap.

- Apo wasn’t slow either, his brain was fast enough to see and analyse Quicklisver path and use his powers to stop him

Apocalypse was physically getting blitzed when Quiksilver was zipping around him and only his powers were able to stop Quiksilver in his tracks.

Apocalypse being slower than Quiksilver didn't hinder the much from the former using telekinetically induced terrain manipulation (from the looks of it) against the latter since terrain manipulation would only require its user to track someone's movement & current location (not always with their sight either) as a requirement before the ability can be succesfully applied against the target.

It's vastly easier to track something that's moving at a specific speed (and it gets easier when that "something" is closing in/moving away from the line of sight) VS actually moving at that speed.

• Ex: tracking a car moving at you 50 kph from a distance away VS actually physically moving at 50 kph.

I'll respond to the AP/Durability vs Speed gap soon.

 

[RayanOO]

Hax/versality advantage that one combatant would have over the other was already taken into account in this sentence below.

Just a tidbit regarding Apo's durability here.

In fight scenarios, a character's durability and AP/destructive ability typically scale directly to each other, except for certain cases where a character's durability (including defensive abilities/barriers) is showcased. Apocalypse demonstrated this effectively when he dismantled Quicksilver in less than 10 seconds after halting the latter. It was proven clearly in the fight (if it was even one) that Apocalypse was stronger than Quicksilver in that scene, both in physical strength and durability.

+

Apocalypse's ability to manipulate the terrain to halt Quicksilver's movement, thereby instantly removing Quicksilver's speed advantage, is further evidence that special abilities used by a character can play a role in negating a speed gap.


Apocalypse was physically getting blitzed when Quiksilver was zipping around him and only his powers were able to stop Quiksilver in his tracks.

Apocalypse being slower than Quiksilver didn't hinder the much from the former using telekinetically induced terrain manipulation (from the looks of it) against the latter since terrain manipulation would only require its user to track someone's movement & current location (not always with their sight either) as a requirement before the ability can be succesfully applied against the target.

It's vastly easier to track something that's moving at a specific speed (and it gets easier when that "something" is closing in/moving away from the line of sight) VS actually moving at that speed.

• Ex: tracking a car moving at you 50 kph from a distance away VS actually physically moving at 50 kph.

I'll respond to the AP/Durability vs Speed gap soon.

Good for Apo for having telekinesis

but it isn’t the debate here

Telekinesis is hax it’s not really AP

if he was just strong and resilient without telekinesis he wouldn’t have been able to counter speed

a character's durability and AP/destructive ability typically scale directly to each other

Agree about that

but it’s not the debate here

the debate is AP vs Speed vs Dura

obviously more often than not when you hit strong you’re quite durable
And more often than not speedy guys are less durable

but if I have to pick up a single skill between those 3 it’s clearly speed for me

 

[soheilhazrat]

Let's say you get 100 points to distribute between the 3. Which of these builds would you prefer:

Speed- 80, AP- 10, defense- 10
AP- 80, speed- 10, defense- 10
Defense- 80, speed- 10, AP- 10

Speed wins, the other two literally cant touch

 

[Daniel]

Good for Apo for having telekinesis

but it isn’t the debate here

Telekinesis is hax it’s not really AP

Telekinesis exerts a specific amount of energy to lock a moving object in place or move something from one place to another. It would still be an ability where the strengh of its effect would still have a limit depending on its user. Special abilities should be directly applicable to a user's AP since these abilities exert a certain amount of energy towards its target and/or the effects that these special abilities on the surroundings can be measured.

These abilities aren't always be classified as hax either since hax usually requires something to bypass the durability of an opponent (or anything that exerts some sort of resistance).

But for the AP/durability vs Speed match-up, speed seems to be the more convenient choice in combat but when the gap between the two attributes widen, having the higher AP/durability becomes the more attractive option. Having the ability to not take major damage from an attack goes a long way in a situation where having to tank a hit is an inevitability.

 

[Transcendent Being]

Let's get one thing straight here attack potency is basically l how much force or energy is used on certain attacks. Attack potency is already a vague term as it is since it can mean either physical strength or energy projection. Striking strength should be the main term to use when relating to physical strength. Also lifting strength is more related to one's durability than either attack potency or striking strength

Post automatically merged: Mar 4, 2024

Speed becomes irrelevant when one's durability is too high for it to even matter. Sure you gets you more attacks in but unless those attacks do lethal damage it won't do you much good.

 

[Herrera95]

Which of these stats is most important for vs battles?

Imo speed >> AP = durability/endurance.

Speed is at same time defende and AP