Character Discussion Streusen, Perospero, and Compote Are Ex Top Commanders

HopOnTheHype · Nov 29, 2020

Depends how the structure is, because Doflamingo seems to be an unofficial member of the Beast Pirates under Jack as the weakest top commander (The whole joker thing and his tie to the crew, and the fact that Jack's bounty is 1m)

We'd have to see more of big moms crew, streusen, perospero, and compote being higher up could explain why snack might not be a match for people like Vista or Ace though.

LadyVados · Nov 29, 2020

IMO

Doffy- YC2 level

Pica- YC3 level

Vergo- YC3.5 level

HopOnTheHype · Nov 29, 2020

LordWhis said:

Well that's a fucking shit-post.

Vista > Doflamingo = Ace > Vergo

You're probably going to bring up doflamingo using his hax from a blindside to hold jozu for all of 10 seconds to say a few things to crocodile, in the end, Jozu has more physical strength than G4 Luffy, so he'd have brusted out. Unless it was not luffy going more powerful, but the size increase, at which point, it's just a hax ability and has nothing to do with his power relative to Jozu's.

Pica isn't even Page One level, sorry not sorry. Pica was mainly such a hassle for Zoro cuz of zoro's innate weak lower body, meaning he was too slow without orlumbus propelling him to corner pica. Zoro's too min maxed for upper body strength.

LadyVados · Nov 30, 2020

HopOnTheHype said:

Not at all, some idiots use that to argue Doffy is YC1 tier which I have always hated. I do consider Vista above Doffy but he’s an exceptional YC3, the world’s greatest pirate’s oldest and most experienced commander, more like a YC1 in strength, much like Yasopp, he probably fought Scopper Gaban back in the day.

EmperorKinyagi · Nov 30, 2020

Pica had a lower bounty than Skypeia Luffy.

No way in hell is on the same level as Jack, Cracker, Ace, etc.

LadyVados · Nov 30, 2020

AdmiralKinyagi said:

Wasn’t Pica’s bounty cancelled when Doffy became a warlord ?

LadyVados · Nov 30, 2020

AdmiralKinyagi said:

when did this happen ? I don’t remember it.
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AdmiralKinyagi said:

You’re making this up, it is not a thing.

HopOnTheHype · Nov 30, 2020

LordWhis said:

Are you talking about Vista? Cuz Yasopp didn't recruit and meet Yasopp till after Roger was dead.

Anyway do you consider streusen or cracker to be yc3, because Cracker literally mass produces g2/g3 luffy leveled biscuit soldiers and has stronger buso than Doflamingo.

Katakuri > Cracker or Streusen > The other > Perospero > Smoothie or Compote > The other > Snack

Overall I'd say Jozu could probably beat Katakuri, but that Cracker/Streusen are borderline Katakuri leveled. Cracker lost to pre future sight Luffy, but Luffy had 1) Cracker's weakness in the form of water via nami, his apetitte to eat the biscuit soldiers so that cracker had to create new ones (ie stamina drain), instead of just putting them back together, 2) An army of homies, 3) Won via a trick move that did more damage than a king kong gun (not only did it go through multiple biscuit soldiers and shields that need g4 kong guns to destroy, he went flying across the entire island into the city), that wouldn't work on a rematch cuz it was a trick that Cracker wouldn't fall for again, so it's not really a power scale feat.

Honestly Katakuri is borderline equal with Cracker, albeit in different ways, Cracker's biscuit soldier phalanx was advanced on luffy spamming kong guns in a barrage.

Jack has a bounty of 1m + has good feats + if Joker (doflamingo) is a title for an unofficial yonkou top commander given the theme of the beast pirates theme, doflamingo would probably be the number 4, meaning king, queen, and jack are stronger than him.

I'm sorry but even Ben Beckman looked like shit against Kizaru, much worse than Jozu did against Aokiji or Marco did against Kizaru or Akainu. Yasopp is likely going to be killed by Van Augur or Lafitte. Ben Beckman seems like the weakest top commander (though he's the smartest based on databooks hyping up his intelligence, so he's kind of sengoku'y probably)

Marco > Jozu > Thatch > Vista > Ace is the power scale really. Thatch being killed essentially by a backstabbing while already having eaten the yami yami no mi, meaning he felt increased pain/damage, and then died of his injuries (or continued stabbings before he could keep going), with the rain/storm making the backstabbing easier for blackbeard stealth wise. (or heck, blackbeard maybe even got him drunk or something and got him to lower his guard)

I think you might be sleeping on Whitey Bay, Squard (he was in charge of the allied crews of whitebeard before his betrayal), and The Decalvan brothers (took over after squard betrayal, albeit they seem to be a recent addition to the allies cuz thatch fought them with ace, unless that was training)

Who knows who fought who, Marco was too young to fight Rayleigh or Gaban. It's possible that maybe rayleigh and gaban didn't get 1 v 1 fights, or didn't get proper opponents but the battles always relied on whitebeard vs roger cuz they were by far the strongest. Maybe Thatch fought Rayleigh or Gaban, do we have an official age for Thatch?

LadyVados · Nov 30, 2020

HopOnTheHype said:

Are you talking about Vista? Cuz Yasopp didn't recruit and meet Yasopp till after Roger was dead.

Anyway do you consider streusen or cracker to be yc3, because Cracker literally mass produces g2/g3 luffy leveled biscuit soldiers and has stronger buso than Doflamingo.

Katakuri > Cracker or Streusen > The other > Perospero > Smoothie or Compote > The other > Snack

Overall I'd say Jozu could probably beat Katakuri, but that Cracker/Streusen are borderline Katakuri leveled. Cracker lost to pre future sight Luffy, but Luffy had 1) Cracker's weakness in the form of water via nami, his apetitte to eat the biscuit soldiers so that cracker had to create new ones (ie stamina drain), instead of just putting them back together, 2) An army of homies, 3) Won via a trick move that did more damage than a king kong gun (not only did it go through multiple biscuit soldiers and shields that need g4 kong guns to destroy, he went flying across the entire island into the city), that wouldn't work on a rematch cuz it was a trick that Cracker wouldn't fall for again, so it's not really a power scale feat.

Honestly Katakuri is borderline equal with Cracker, albeit in different ways, Cracker's biscuit soldier phalanx was advanced on luffy spamming kong guns in a barrage.

Jack has a bounty of 1m + has good feats + if Joker (doflamingo) is a title for an unofficial yonkou top commander given the theme of the beast pirates theme, doflamingo would probably be the number 4, meaning king, queen, and jack are stronger than him.

I'm sorry but even Ben Beckman looked like shit against Kizaru, much worse than Jozu did against Aokiji or Marco did against Kizaru or Akainu. Yasopp is likely going to be killed by Van Augur or Lafitte. Ben Beckman seems like the weakest top commander (though he's the smartest based on databooks hyping up his intelligence, so he's kind of sengoku'y probably)

Marco > Jozu > Thatch > Vista > Ace is the power scale really. Thatch being killed essentially by a backstabbing while already having eaten the yami yami no mi, meaning he felt increased pain/damage, and then died of his injuries (or continued stabbings before he could keep going), with the rain/storm making the backstabbing easier for blackbeard stealth wise. (or heck, blackbeard maybe even got him drunk or something and got him to lower his guard)

I think you might be sleeping on Whitey Bay, Squard (he was in charge of the allied crews of whitebeard before his betrayal), and The Decalvan brothers (took over after squard betrayal, albeit they seem to be a recent addition to the allies cuz thatch fought them with ace, unless that was training)

Who knows who fought who, Marco was too young to fight Rayleigh or Gaban. It's possible that maybe rayleigh and gaban didn't get 1 v 1 fights, or didn't get proper opponents but the battles always relied on whitebeard vs roger cuz they were by far the strongest. Maybe Thatch fought Rayleigh or Gaban, do we have an official age for Thatch?

I could see Whitey Bay being really strong.

Rayleigh I think was on the same level as Roger and WB. If he was admiral level in old age after losing most of his strength he was probably Yonko level in his prime.

The declan brothers lost to Weavil (but again I guess Weavil could be a top tier based )

Beckmann I believe is Admiral level (he even has a Yonko level statement)

I think Vista and Jozu are about equal in strength and I could see them being individually stronger than Katakuri (at least in terms of raw strength)

HopOnTheHype · Nov 30, 2020

LordWhis said:

Not at all, Rayleigh struggled with an admiral in old age, while Whitebeard post heart attack , post squard stabbing, post free lava fisting in the heart (cuz he was mid heart attack), and post vice admiral ganking (like 8 shot him with canons and stabbed him and stuff), still beat Akainu in 2 hits. All that WITH his health issues that made him so much weaker that marco clearly defined that squard (whitebeard's strongest ally), even with the benefit of being an ally, would NOT have been able to do that to an old whitebeard that's disease/sickness hadn't spread as far.

The gap between rayleigh and the people like roger, garp, whitebeard, and shiki, is huge. Prime rayleigh is a half step above marco but still stompable from roger. I'd argue Roger could beat Rayleigh and Gaban at the same time, both were planning on teaming up on Oden and Roger one hit Oden more or less.

Nothing or no one said Ben is admiral or yonkou level, literally the one time he came across an admiral (which is weaker than yonkou), he had his gun aimed at kizaru and within 20 seconds kizaru was already doing something else and ben couldn't do anything about it. I'd say he's weaker than Katakuri, who I'd say is weaker than King, who is around Jozu leveled.

Jozu is quite a bit stronger than Vista, and Thatch is probably between them based on their positions, with ace, he was just taking up the void that was oden's vacant position, which is the only reason he's division 2 commander. The other top commanders (not the rest) are probably ranked by their positions within the crew, as an easy way to remember their order by oda. Marco is unquestionably the first mate, Jozu was paired against aokiji while vista was only paired against mihawk, who was already shat on by jozu like 5 minutes earlier. It's fair to assume thatch was a top commander, and between the fairly decent power gap of jozu and vista.
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LordWhis said:

And my point is that page one is like the 9th strongest crew mate of kaidou's, and with a raid suit, sanji had to abuse invisibility with his raid suit stuff too, to have the lead, so shitting on non raid suit sanji doesn't mean anything when we're talking about people like snack, who is what, the 7th strongest in big moms forces?

LadyVados · Nov 30, 2020

HopOnTheHype said:

Not at all, Rayleigh struggled with an admiral in old age, while Whitebeard post heart attack , post squard stabbing, post free lava fisting in the heart (cuz he was mid heart attack), and post vice admiral ganking (like 8 shot him with canons and stabbed him and stuff), still beat Akainu in 2 hits. All that WITH his health issues that made him so much weaker that marco clearly defined that squard (whitebeard's strongest ally), even with the benefit of being an ally, would NOT have been able to do that to an old whitebeard that's disease/sickness hadn't spread as far.

The gap between rayleigh and the people like roger, garp, whitebeard, and shiki, is huge. Prime rayleigh is a half step above marco but still stompable from roger. I'd argue Roger could beat Rayleigh and Gaban at the same time, both were planning on teaming up on Oden and Roger one hit Oden more or less.

Nothing or no one said Ben is admiral or yonkou level, literally the one time he came across an admiral (which is weaker than yonkou), he had his gun aimed at kizaru and within 20 seconds kizaru was already doing something else and ben couldn't do anything about it. I'd say he's weaker than Katakuri, who I'd say is weaker than King, who is around Jozu leveled.

Jozu is quite a bit stronger than Vista, and Thatch is probably between them based on their positions, with ace, he was just taking up the void that was oden's vacant position, which is the only reason he's division 2 commander. The other top commanders (not the rest) are probably ranked by their positions within the crew, as an easy way to remember their order by oda. Marco is unquestionably the first mate, Jozu was paired against aokiji while vista was only paired against mihawk, who was already shat on by jozu like 5 minutes earlier. It's fair to assume thatch was a top commander, and between the fairly decent power gap of jozu and vista.
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And my point is that page one is like the 9th strongest crew mate of kaidou's, and with a raid suit, sanji had to abuse invisibility with his raid suit stuff too, to have the lead, so shitting on non raid suit sanji doesn't mean anything when we're talking about people like snack, who is what, the 7th strongest in big moms forces?

Rayleigh hadn’t picked up a sword in 20 years while WB was an active pirate that more than makes up for WB’s health issues.

Judge and Snack were about equal. And Sanji gave Judge a better fight than Vergo.

HopOnTheHype · Nov 30, 2020

LordWhis said:

Judge vs Snack? I believe that was anime only.

Jo_Ndule · Dec 1, 2020

HopOnTheHype said:

Are you talking about Vista? Cuz Yasopp didn't recruit and meet Yasopp till after Roger was dead.

Anyway do you consider streusen or cracker to be yc3, because Cracker literally mass produces g2/g3 luffy leveled biscuit soldiers and has stronger buso than Doflamingo.

Katakuri > Cracker or Streusen > The other > Perospero > Smoothie or Compote > The other > Snack

Overall I'd say Jozu could probably beat Katakuri, but that Cracker/Streusen are borderline Katakuri leveled. Cracker lost to pre future sight Luffy, but Luffy had 1) Cracker's weakness in the form of water via nami, his apetitte to eat the biscuit soldiers so that cracker had to create new ones (ie stamina drain), instead of just putting them back together, 2) An army of homies, 3) Won via a trick move that did more damage than a king kong gun (not only did it go through multiple biscuit soldiers and shields that need g4 kong guns to destroy, he went flying across the entire island into the city), that wouldn't work on a rematch cuz it was a trick that Cracker wouldn't fall for again, so it's not really a power scale feat.

Honestly Katakuri is borderline equal with Cracker, albeit in different ways, Cracker's biscuit soldier phalanx was advanced on luffy spamming kong guns in a barrage.

Jack has a bounty of 1m + has good feats + if Joker (doflamingo) is a title for an unofficial yonkou top commander given the theme of the beast pirates theme, doflamingo would probably be the number 4, meaning king, queen, and jack are stronger than him.

I'm sorry but even Ben Beckman looked like shit against Kizaru, much worse than Jozu did against Aokiji or Marco did against Kizaru or Akainu. Yasopp is likely going to be killed by Van Augur or Lafitte. Ben Beckman seems like the weakest top commander (though he's the smartest based on databooks hyping up his intelligence, so he's kind of sengoku'y probably)

Marco > Jozu > Thatch > Vista > Ace is the power scale really. Thatch being killed essentially by a backstabbing while already having eaten the yami yami no mi, meaning he felt increased pain/damage, and then died of his injuries (or continued stabbings before he could keep going), with the rain/storm making the backstabbing easier for blackbeard stealth wise. (or heck, blackbeard maybe even got him drunk or something and got him to lower his guard)

I think you might be sleeping on Whitey Bay, Squard (he was in charge of the allied crews of whitebeard before his betrayal), and The Decalvan brothers (took over after squard betrayal, albeit they seem to be a recent addition to the allies cuz thatch fought them with ace, unless that was training)

Who knows who fought who, Marco was too young to fight Rayleigh or Gaban. It's possible that maybe rayleigh and gaban didn't get 1 v 1 fights, or didn't get proper opponents but the battles always relied on whitebeard vs roger cuz they were by far the strongest. Maybe Thatch fought Rayleigh or Gaban, do we have an official age for Thatch?

jozu should first be able to beat Cracker or break free from parasite

He cant touch katakuri
G4>>Jozu

HopOnTheHype · Dec 1, 2020

Jo_Ndule said:

Idk, jozu's physical force was up to contention with akainu and he was stalemating Aokiji. Meanwhile Cracker > pre future sight G4 Luffy.

Yes, future sight is super useful, but Jozu just has higher stats, probably stronger buso, and his diamonds aren't easy to get through unless you cheap shot him. I see Jozu holding up to snakeman more than I saw Katakuri.

Of course I'm dealing with hypotheticals, since we didn't see MUCH of jozu, but still, I think enough is there to kind of push Jozu as the victor, and enough to kind of imply Marco is a special case in a yonkou crew, like in a normal yonkou crew, jozu would be the first mate (he matches the power needs), but Marco is some sort of special addition, an advantage that whitebeard picked up along the way (I in my recent thread considered the possibility that marco was rocks' kid, considering whitebeard was essentially rocks' first mate, marco was 4 years old at the defeat of rocks, he had a super rare mystical zoan AT LEAST (he seemed highly skilled in it) at the age of 15 when he was only an apprentice/deckhand of whitebeard like shanks and buggy, and clearly someone like rocks can just go "here's a mystical devil fruit to my son", but I don't see whitebeard giving it to a new deckhand he got or something, as compared to blackbeard giving his one mystical zoan to one of his fleet commanders, sengoku probably being a vice admiral before he got his at least, kaidou being kaidou (maybe big mom gave him the devil fruit and that's what big mom did for him), etc. Seems weird for a 10 yeart old or younger to just be given a mystical zoan or find one by chance.

Just a fun possibility to consider, especially with his increased relevance now to the main characters, and his tie to blackbeard (who like luffy is to roger, is inspired by rocks)

Jo_Ndule · Dec 3, 2020

HopOnTheHype said:

Idk, jozu's physical force was up to contention with akainu and he was stalemating Aokiji. Meanwhile Cracker > pre future sight G4 Luffy.

Yes, future sight is super useful, but Jozu just has higher stats, probably stronger buso, and his diamonds aren't easy to get through unless you cheap shot him. I see Jozu holding up to snakeman more than I saw Katakuri.

Of course I'm dealing with hypotheticals, since we didn't see MUCH of jozu, but still, I think enough is there to kind of push Jozu as the victor, and enough to kind of imply Marco is a special case in a yonkou crew, like in a normal yonkou crew, jozu would be the first mate (he matches the power needs), but Marco is some sort of special addition, an advantage that whitebeard picked up along the way (I in my recent thread considered the possibility that marco was rocks' kid, considering whitebeard was essentially rocks' first mate, marco was 4 years old at the defeat of rocks, he had a super rare mystical zoan AT LEAST (he seemed highly skilled in it) at the age of 15 when he was only an apprentice/deckhand of whitebeard like shanks and buggy, and clearly someone like rocks can just go "here's a mystical devil fruit to my son", but I don't see whitebeard giving it to a new deckhand he got or something, as compared to blackbeard giving his one mystical zoan to one of his fleet commanders, sengoku probably being a vice admiral before he got his at least, kaidou being kaidou (maybe big mom gave him the devil fruit and that's what big mom did for him), etc. Seems weird for a 10 yeart old or younger to just be given a mystical zoan or find one by chance.

Just a fun possibility to consider, especially with his increased relevance now to the main characters, and his tie to blackbeard (who like luffy is to roger, is inspired by rocks)

Yet couldn't do better vs crocodije than luffy
Yet couldn't break free
Yet has lower AP and speed than G4 by a clear margin

His physical strength, haki and all are average
He cant touch kata or Cracker. He needs more than just driving forward like madman

HopOnTheHype · Dec 3, 2020

Jo_Ndule said:

Jozu was literally ragdolling Crocodile effortlessly till doflamingo showed up, the fuck you smoking?
He was blindsided by doflamingo, and he was only under it's control for 10 seconds, Luffy was under the bondage of parasite even longer before he broke free.

Prove G4 has greater AP and speed than Jozu, you can't just make stuff up and be expected to be taken seriously. Jozu's attack made Akainu struggle. Also like if Luffy is NOW stronger than Jozu, would that even matter? Luffy is like Marco level rn, and yeah, Marco would beat Jozu. Doesn't mean Jozu wouldn't absolutely rock Katakuri and people like that.

Luffy took a whole arc to defeat crocodile, Jozu hit crocodile twice or something and he was on his hands and knees spitting out blood.