Speculations Tashigi's role: the only woman Zoro will ever fight seriously

#1
So I was thinking about it, and if you look at every fight zoro has ever had against a woman, even including Ain from film Z, Zoro has not taken a single one seriously. Whereas Zoro is willing to cut any man who stands in his way, he has never cut a woman, even if that woman was a horrible person, such as Monet.

I personally think this is important, due to one of the most important characters in Zoro's life, Kuina. Kuina wanted to be the world's strongest swordsman but didn't think she could as she was a woman and men are often stronger than women. To this Zoro rebuked her and told her that she was always the goal he wanted to surpass. Kuina was the last woman Zoro fought seriously imo.

I think that with her death, which occurred due to something so feeble as falling down the stairs, Zoro started to believe that Kuina was right about women. That they can't be as strong as men. This explains why Zoro has never cut a woman, despite cutting any fodder he runs across. Kuina's death engrained into zoro's mind, if only subconsciously, the belief that women are fragile.

And that brings us to Tashigi, a character who looks eerily similar to Kuina. After Zoro first defeated Kuina, these are the words that she told him:
Why don't you kill me! Is it because I am a woman? A woman may not be as strong as a man... but to go easy on me is an insult!
And Tashigi is right. Remember the Mihawk vs Zoro fight? Despite Zoro being a literal fodder compared to Mihawk, Mihawk was willing to slash Zoro across the chest because he respected Zoro's wish to either beat Mihawk or die trying(he says this plainly when he gets stabbed in the chest by the dagger). This is the exact same wish Tashigi had when she fought Zoro. The only difference is that Zoro wasn't willing to give Tashigi the same respect that Mihawk gave him, despite the gap between him and Tashigi easily being smaller than the gap between him and Mihawk.

I think that the character arc Oda derived for Zoro will culminate with Tashigi being the only woman zoro ever fights seriously. Even if Tashigi is never going to be on Zoro's level, Tashigi will at the very least push Zoro to give her the same respect that Mihawk gave him all those years ago. In fact it might even be a parallel, with their fight happening after Zoro becomes the world's strongest swordsman, ending with Zoro slashing Tashigi across the chest and telling her to surpass him.

However, part of me does kind of want Oda to bring back Smoker and Tashigi as real rivals and have Tashigi actually push Zoro to go all out in order to prove that it is possible for a woman to be WSSM, but the way he's treated them post skip makes me doubt this will happen. Oda did say, however, he likes to bring back old characters and make them stronger, and with the SSG and vegapunk, who knows what could happen.

Anyways, thanks for coming to my ted talk
 
#2
Uh what? Zoro literally clowned on Tashigi at Punk Hazard, sarcastically saying she could take credit for what would’ve been his kill. When she accused him of looking down on her, he confirmed it. He’s not going to fight her seriously. Ever.

Why should Zoro give her any respect? Tashigi doesn’t train even a fraction of what he does, complains that other people are stronger than her and blames it on sexism rather than her own shortcomings. If Mihawk treated her the exact same way he treated Zoro, she’d pull the sexism card and whine instead of taking a good hard look at herself and realising that as a normal person, she needs to train a hundred times as hard as natural born destroyers and geniuses like Big Mom or Katakuri. And it’s more than possible for a normal guy to become a top tier. Shanks did it. Mihawk did it. The only thing holding Tashigi back is her shitty attitude and that enormous chip on her shoulders.

EDIT: because some people seem to think that being a sword nerd + having an overbearing boss = training hard (wut?) Tashigi has never once trained on the level of her male counterparts. Zoro’s childhood, even the childhood pictures of other swordsmen like Mihawk and Vista got them all bruised and bloody but still practising regardless. Tashigi’s has her ignoring her swords with her head in a picture book. Maybe cut down on the paper pushing and brush up on the actual fighting and people might put some respect on ya name.
 
Last edited:
#4
Why should Zoro give her any respect? Tashigi doesn’t train even a fraction of what he does, complains that other people are stronger than her and blames it on sexism rather than her own shortcomings.
She's not complaining that Zoro is stronger than her, she is complaining that he looks down on her because she's a woman

and that's literally true

why else is he willing to cut literal fodder but not her? She just wants Zoro to respect her enough as a swordsman to cut her, just as he does literally every other person he fights.
 
#6
how can zoro even fight her serioulsy if he can literially no diff her lol
Oda can bring her back stronger
Post automatically merged:

anyways if you read the thread, its not even about her strength, its about zoro respecting her

Mihawk could no diff Zoro in east blue and he respected him more than zoro respects tashigi, as zoro is unwilling to cut a woman
 

KiriNigiri

The Road To Harmony
#8
Tashigi's resolve is highly under-estimated in this fandom. She has had to see her dream and perspective on life challenged whenever she appears, and she still clings on to who she is. Even coming at odds with those so much more powerful than her. While I like your interpretation of Zoro's unwillingness to strike women, ultimately I find that's Oda reflecting his views onto Zoro. Lets also keep in mind that while Mihawk did strike Zoro down, he held back as to not kill Zoro.

But if it were the case, Tashigi would be the perfect solution to this mental block of his, due to her tenaciousness on confronting Zoro about it. Whereas characters like Monet would seek to take advantage of this mental block, Tashigi doesn't want a short cut. Rather, it seems she's more driven to overcome hardship. Despite nearly dying at the hands of Vergo earlier, even crying out for Smoker internally, as well as the poison gas, she still took the risk of facing Monet in order to save her men, not letting who she considered "dishonorable" be responsible for their fate.

Why should Zoro give her any respect? Tashigi doesn’t train even a fraction of what he does, complains that other people are stronger than her and blames it on sexism rather than her own shortcomings. If Mihawk treated her the exact same way he treated Zoro, she’d pull the sexism card and whine instead of taking a good hard look at herself and realising that as a normal person, she needs to train a hundred times as hard as natural born destroyers and geniuses like Big Mom or Katakuri. And it’s more than possible for a normal guy to become a top tier. Shanks did it. Mihawk did it. The only thing holding Tashigi back is her shitty attitude and that enormous chip on her shoulders.
Completely untrue. We know that Tashigi is a hard worker based on the fact she is very knowledgeable of swords, and scolds any one who is slacking. We just don't see her as much as Zoro.

She had a moment of realization of her strength not unlike Zoro where she was confronted by Smoker to get stronger, and she clearly took it to heart. She would later get promoted to Captain, as well as unlock both forms of haki in 2 years. Unless Tashigi was some prodigy who only trained minimally to achieve haki, it's clear she worked very hard to get where she is.



Speaking of Smoker, he is very strict with Tashigi, and has very high standards for her. She takes his criticism in stride, using it as motivation to get better. Something as simple as reminding her to put her glasses on right.



She simply refuses to show that side of hers in front of an enemy, which Zoro is. She's like a wartime Samurai. To die in battle is an honor, and she feels she's shaming herself with every defeat that isn't ended in death.

Nothing is holding Tashigi back besides her lack of strength, and there's no indication she isn't still trying to grow stronger. Oda gave her one of the hardest dreams to achieve for a reason. Considering she isn't an antagonistic figure, her achieving it is likely. And that will coincide with her development with Zoro. Who at first wrote her off as a Kuina clone the first time. Now he no longer does, and while he undercuts praising her by being facetious, he nonetheless did, with emphasis placed on that panel of him giving her the credit.


It's not erroneous to believe Zoro developed respect for Tashigi's efforts, however small they may have been. After all, it is the intent that matters to him. Almost like he trained with the man who recognized someone for that.
 
#9
Tashigi is underrated. She easily pull a Mihawk's deflecting feat.
Yeah, and then in PH she pulled the "Monet is about to beat my ass, help me Zoro-sama"
Post automatically merged:

I feel like you are trying to tell me "Yo, do you remember that girl back in PH who was no diff material for Zoro? Well, she is going to come back after Wano and she is going to be a mid/high diff fight for him." ☠️☠️
 

KiriNigiri

The Road To Harmony
#10
Yeah, and then in PH she pulled the "Monet is about to beat my ass, help me Zoro-sama"
Tashigi never called for Zoro's help. Zoro acted on his own.

I feel like you are trying to tell me "Yo, do you remember that girl back in PH who was no diff material for Zoro? Well, she is going to come back after Wano and she is going to be a mid/high diff fight for him." ☠️☠️
They never did, though, they just said she's underrated.
 
#11
They never did, though, they just said she's underrated
"Tashigi the only Woman that Zoro will fight seriously", my questions is; can you fight an ant seriously? If you fight seriously that means that you are using all your strength and you are basically giving your all to win. You can't rlly give your all to win against someone who doesn't stand a chance. It's like Mihawk going serious mode against Zoro when he faced him in the Baratie arc.
I acknowledge her resolve, however, she lacks the strength.
 

KiriNigiri

The Road To Harmony
#12
"Tashigi the only Woman that Zoro will fight seriously", my questions is; can you fight an ant seriously? If you fight seriously that means that you are using all your strength and you are basically giving your all to win. You can't rlly give your all to win against someone who doesn't stand a chance. It's like Mihawk going serious mode against Zoro when he faced him in the Baratie arc.
I acknowledge her resolve, however, she lacks the strength.
Oh, were you directing that to the thread creator? Then I apologize.

As for whether Zoro will confront Tashigi in a serious duel, that remains to be seen. All I know is that Tashigi is still striving to become stronger, much like Zoro. We'll see what the future holds.

I like to think she will because I believe in her.
 
#13
Oh, were you directing that to the thread creator? Then I apologize.

As for whether Zoro will confront Tashigi in a serious duel, that remains to be seen. All I know is that Tashigi is still striving to become stronger, much like Zoro. We'll see what the future holds.

I like to think she will because I believe in her.
She will probably become strong but not even close to Zoro who could potentially be top 3 in the verse EOS. I could rank her at Vice-Admiral level. Admiral extreme high-ball.
 

Cinera

𝐀𝐬𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐜𝐡𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐲 𝐏𝐞𝐭
#14
So I was thinking about it, and if you look at every fight zoro has ever had against a woman, even including Ain from film Z, Zoro has not taken a single one seriously. Whereas Zoro is willing to cut any man who stands in his way, he has never cut a woman, even if that woman was a horrible person, such as Monet.

I personally think this is important, due to one of the most important characters in Zoro's life, Kuina. Kuina wanted to be the world's strongest swordsman but didn't think she could as she was a woman and men are often stronger than women. To this Zoro rebuked her and told her that she was always the goal he wanted to surpass. Kuina was the last woman Zoro fought seriously imo.

I think that with her death, which occurred due to something so feeble as falling down the stairs, Zoro started to believe that Kuina was right about women. That they can't be as strong as men. This explains why Zoro has never cut a woman, despite cutting any fodder he runs across. Kuina's death engrained into zoro's mind, if only subconsciously, the belief that women are fragile.

And that brings us to Tashigi, a character who looks eerily similar to Kuina. After Zoro first defeated Kuina, these are the words that she told him:


And Tashigi is right. Remember the Mihawk vs Zoro fight? Despite Zoro being a literal fodder compared to Mihawk, Mihawk was willing to slash Zoro across the chest because he respected Zoro's wish to either beat Mihawk or die trying(he says this plainly when he gets stabbed in the chest by the dagger). This is the exact same wish Tashigi had when she fought Zoro. The only difference is that Zoro wasn't willing to give Tashigi the same respect that Mihawk gave him, despite the gap between him and Tashigi easily being smaller than the gap between him and Mihawk.

I think that the character arc Oda derived for Zoro will culminate with Tashigi being the only woman zoro ever fights seriously. Even if Tashigi is never going to be on Zoro's level, Tashigi will at the very least push Zoro to give her the same respect that Mihawk gave him all those years ago. In fact it might even be a parallel, with their fight happening after Zoro becomes the world's strongest swordsman, ending with Zoro slashing Tashigi across the chest and telling her to surpass him.

However, part of me does kind of want Oda to bring back Smoker and Tashigi as real rivals and have Tashigi actually push Zoro to go all out in order to prove that it is possible for a woman to be WSSM, but the way he's treated them post skip makes me doubt this will happen. Oda did say, however, he likes to bring back old characters and make them stronger, and with the SSG and vegapunk, who knows what could happen.

Anyways, thanks for coming to my ted talk
You're right, Zoro is sexist. See his response to Enel attacking Robin:


Zoro has never really cut down a woman before:
  • He crushed Mrs Monday with raw strength.
  • He was initially unwilling to fight back against Monet and only defended.
  • When she was about to kill Tashigi, he only gave Monet a paper cut and then overwhelmed her with fear.
  • He used the back of his blades against Ain.
  • Oda never had him attack Linlin either.

Zoro is not unable to fight women like Sanji, but he is really, really unwilling to cut them down.

The only time he's drawn blood from a woman with his sword was the paper cut he gave Monet, and that was only when Monet was literally about to kill Tashigi. Had she not tried to kill Tashigi, Zoro may have never actually fought back.

I was always perplexed by this since child Zoro had no qualms fighting Kuina (and fully respected her as a combatant), but Kuina's death and Koshiro's own pervasive sexism ingraining it in him seems plausible.
 
#19
No she's not. She's trash
it wasn't really a statement about powerlevels
Post automatically merged:

Oda doing that to a woman? Lol, no chance.
I don't see what else is the point of Oda creating a character with the same face and personality of Zoro's dead rival. Kuina literally created zoro's dream, Tashigi can't not be integral to zoro's character arc.

If you look at zoro; as a child he believed men were equal to women, but as an adult he's never treated women as equals to men. He can cut fodder but not Tashigi. So I infer that Kuina's pathetic death of falling down the stairs and dying caused zoro to at least subconsciously believe women are fragile, which is why he has never cut a woman.

Tashigi as the doppleganger of kuina should cause zoro to develop as a character and treat his female opponents with the same respect he treats his male opponents
 
Last edited:

HA001

World's Strongest Swordsman
#20
it wasn't really a statement about powerlevels
Post automatically merged:



I don't see what else is the point of Oda creating a character with the same face and personality of Zoro's dead rival. Kuina literally created zoro's dream, Tashigi can't not be integral to zoro's character arc.

If you look at zoro; as a child he believed men were equal to women, but as an adult he's never treated women as equals to men. He can cut fodder but not Tashigi. So I infer that Kuina's pathetic death of falling down the stairs and dying caused zoro to at least subconsciously believe women are fragile, which is why he has never cut a woman.

Tashigi as the doppleganger of kuina should cause zoro to develop as a character and treat his female opponents with the same respect he treats his male opponents
It's all about power level. If he fought a strong woman he'd fight her properly.
 
Top