The baiting Room
- Thread starter Bogard
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You guys aren't ready.
I
I think you're looking at AoT with a really biased opinion, i think some points that you give it as a positive are not as good as you might think and at the same time the things you talk negative about One Piece are not as bad as you think.
The things about storyline depth and progression i can agree, but i can't agree when you say AoT is always consistent and progresses through arcs and themes, in fact i think inconsistency is the worst part about AoT. Sometimes you have really great and tight arcs, full of plot developments, twists and action, but sometimes you get 20 chapters of people sitting down in a room with a table talking about a bunch of stuff that isn't really relevant, it felt like the author was buying time to figure out what he was going to do next with the story.
Then we have the consequences part you said, AoT starts early on with the idea of consequences and death very heavily, but the thing is that Isayama keeps introducing new characters so he can kill them off, the ones that keep coming back have HUGE PLOT ARMOR, it's insane, there's nothing that can touch them, some of these characters sould've been dead as consequences of their actions time and time again, but the author always lets them go. I'm talking about Eren, Mikasa, Armin, Levi, Jean, Reiner, Annie and a lot more of those around...
And then we have the character depth / character development, and you use Eren as an example. I agree that Eren is an amazing character, the idea of putting a shounen protagonist in a Seinen world is pretty awesome, and let the world absolute destroy his world's view. BUT, just like i said, inconsistency, AoT has a deep and awesome character like Eren, but at the same time has a bunch of fucking simple minded and boring characters like:
Mikasa - simple fucking Eren simp, does everything he wants or needs to survive, keeps following him around like a robot, never thinks for herself, even now by the end, after 130 chapters, she still would put the world in danger to save Eren.
Armin - the goody two shoes of AoT, is always right about stuff and everything he wants to accomplish he does so, from the spoilers it seems like he's about to do the Talk no Jutsu like Naruto, like he did many times before. At least Naruto was more consistent with his power of being able to talk people over.
Levi - the action hero captain, sould've died long ago, but Isayama keeps him alive for fanservice and nothing more, his arc and story has ended so far back.
Jean - the coward with leader skills, never develops, always stays the same, always doing what needs to be done, but always questioning if what they are doing is right.
Sasha - just a food loving character, that is it.
There's a bunch more, i could go for a while. There are a few characters that are pretty good, like Erwin and Reiner, but overall it's very inconsistent.
Oda is much more creative with his characters, especially design wise. In AoT most of the characters either look the same or use the same shit all the time, it's really boring. I also like how Oda at least gives each character 2 contradicting things, their main characteristics and a gag that breaks those characteristics. Oda thinks about a lot more stuff when creating characters in the OP world, you have designs that are very different, you have different powers with devil fruits or equipments, you have sometimes really deep backstories that no character from AoT even comes close.
I just think you're selling One Piece way too short and AoT way too high. I really like them both, but for me One Piece is a much better series. And now with how AoT seems to be going about their ending...
The things about storyline depth and progression i can agree, but i can't agree when you say AoT is always consistent and progresses through arcs and themes, in fact i think inconsistency is the worst part about AoT. Sometimes you have really great and tight arcs, full of plot developments, twists and action, but sometimes you get 20 chapters of people sitting down in a room with a table talking about a bunch of stuff that isn't really relevant, it felt like the author was buying time to figure out what he was going to do next with the story.
Then we have the consequences part you said, AoT starts early on with the idea of consequences and death very heavily, but the thing is that Isayama keeps introducing new characters so he can kill them off, the ones that keep coming back have HUGE PLOT ARMOR, it's insane, there's nothing that can touch them, some of these characters sould've been dead as consequences of their actions time and time again, but the author always lets them go. I'm talking about Eren, Mikasa, Armin, Levi, Jean, Reiner, Annie and a lot more of those around...
And then we have the character depth / character development, and you use Eren as an example. I agree that Eren is an amazing character, the idea of putting a shounen protagonist in a Seinen world is pretty awesome, and let the world absolute destroy his world's view. BUT, just like i said, inconsistency, AoT has a deep and awesome character like Eren, but at the same time has a bunch of fucking simple minded and boring characters like:
Mikasa - simple fucking Eren simp, does everything he wants or needs to survive, keeps following him around like a robot, never thinks for herself, even now by the end, after 130 chapters, she still would put the world in danger to save Eren.
Armin - the goody two shoes of AoT, is always right about stuff and everything he wants to accomplish he does so, from the spoilers it seems like he's about to do the Talk no Jutsu like Naruto, like he did many times before. At least Naruto was more consistent with his power of being able to talk people over.
Levi - the action hero captain, sould've died long ago, but Isayama keeps him alive for fanservice and nothing more, his arc and story has ended so far back.
Jean - the coward with leader skills, never develops, always stays the same, always doing what needs to be done, but always questioning if what they are doing is right.
Sasha - just a food loving character, that is it.
There's a bunch more, i could go for a while. There are a few characters that are pretty good, like Erwin and Reiner, but overall it's very inconsistent.
Oda is much more creative with his characters, especially design wise. In AoT most of the characters either look the same or use the same shit all the time, it's really boring. I also like how Oda at least gives each character 2 contradicting things, their main characteristics and a gag that breaks those characteristics. Oda thinks about a lot more stuff when creating characters in the OP world, you have designs that are very different, you have different powers with devil fruits or equipments, you have sometimes really deep backstories that no character from AoT even comes close.
I just think you're selling One Piece way too short and AoT way too high. I really like them both, but for me One Piece is a much better series. And now with how AoT seems to be going about their ending...
I respect your opinion. I'm not saying AoT is better than OP though, i just voicing more about my view on AoT in that post compared to my view about OP. I agree on many things you've pointed out, about shallow and boring characters and about how Oda can juggle so much more character compared to Isayama, character design, Oda's creativity and intricacies with world-building and ability building, that Isayama cant touch with his level of juggling, etc.
I also have similar view to you regarding inconsistency in each arc, we have explosive twists but we also have long boring and dull moments. It's just that i emphasize more about AoT's strong points in my post.
Such as story-driven or character-driven moments, imo OP don't have that level of twist, or if OP have those moments then they're not affecting the story as much as AoT's moments affecting the next story phase. Since the member asking hasnt read AoT, i try to explore / emphasize AoT's strong points in longer explanations than exploring OP's strong points.
Hmm how should i put this. AoT focuses on grand scheme of overall plot, the bigger picture, and imo its really succeeded in that regard. Especially with chapter 123, imo by dropping that chapter, Isayama did something that exceeded the readers' expectation regarding AoT's strong point, thats why im okay with mediocre moments AoT keep showing.
While OP focuses on many many things, so it tackles wider responsibilities to satisfy readers, and nowadays i feel like OP fails to do certain things like exceeding the readers' expectations in battle scenes or powerlevels for example. One of OP's main focus is battle scenes and powerlevel, so when Oda seemed way too invested in hyping everyone powerlevel-wise and he don't really give each hype the justice, my personal expectation to this aspect of OP keep decreasing. Since OP tries to focus on battle, but it keeps failing the hype it tries to build.
Not to take anything away from the magical world-building or thousands of characters Oda create with each powers and design of their own though, i really like OP as well with its various strong points, i just didnt explore it longer in the previous post.
I also have similar view to you regarding inconsistency in each arc, we have explosive twists but we also have long boring and dull moments. It's just that i emphasize more about AoT's strong points in my post.
Such as story-driven or character-driven moments, imo OP don't have that level of twist, or if OP have those moments then they're not affecting the story as much as AoT's moments affecting the next story phase. Since the member asking hasnt read AoT, i try to explore / emphasize AoT's strong points in longer explanations than exploring OP's strong points.
Hmm how should i put this. AoT focuses on grand scheme of overall plot, the bigger picture, and imo its really succeeded in that regard. Especially with chapter 123, imo by dropping that chapter, Isayama did something that exceeded the readers' expectation regarding AoT's strong point, thats why im okay with mediocre moments AoT keep showing.
While OP focuses on many many things, so it tackles wider responsibilities to satisfy readers, and nowadays i feel like OP fails to do certain things like exceeding the readers' expectations in battle scenes or powerlevels for example. One of OP's main focus is battle scenes and powerlevel, so when Oda seemed way too invested in hyping everyone powerlevel-wise and he don't really give each hype the justice, my personal expectation to this aspect of OP keep decreasing. Since OP tries to focus on battle, but it keeps failing the hype it tries to build.
Not to take anything away from the magical world-building or thousands of characters Oda create with each powers and design of their own though, i really like OP as well with its various strong points, i just didnt explore it longer in the previous post.
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