Speculations the biggest wano plothole

[Monkey D Theories]

So after we learned all the lore about Oden and the scabbards and what kaido did to wano, there is one question that comes to my mind. If Oden was friends with all these different top tiers, then why did he never ask any of them to defeat kaido?

on a similar note:

Why didn't any of the scabbards ask these top tiers?

Like if they had decided to take out kaido 2 years ago they could have got the full whitebeard pirates and WB himself on their side, Shanks and the red hair pirates, as well as possibly Rayleigh and Scopper(if he is still alive). Kaido would be dead by now if they did something like that.

Even still, why do the dukes only ask for help from Marco. What about Shanks? the buggy pirates? Rayleigh? Crocus?
All of those people loved Oden and could have agreed to fight kaido with them(except for maybe buggy, but he could easily be manipulated if you offered to pay him for it).

I really hope Oda gives us a good answer as to why this didn't happen and not something contrived

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

Well, maybe because first Wano have its border closed so that's nearly impossible to enter, second Kaido is a Yonko, if the Scabbards request helps from other strong people that would lead to a war in Wano and the Marine have to interfere if they can. Beside they can't contact other people outside of Wano but I really don't how arc will play. Maybe we will get the answer later on.

 

[LolonoisZolo]

So true, I hope we get an answer to that.
Why ask Marco and not Shanks ?

 

[Jew D. Boy]

It DOES seem a little odd that he outright declined the Roger Pirates’ help back in the day, I’m still not sure I understand his logic in actively choosing to exclude Whitebeard and Roger, both of whom were probably stronger than Kaido back then.

As far as the minks not approaching anyone other than Marco to help fight for Oden’s cause, I think there’s a “good” reason for most of them not to be asked/show up. Shanks is at Reverie at some point during the time the alliance spent preparing for the raid and also isn’t known for challenging anyone without reason or warning; Rayleigh is old and might not opt to travel to Wano even to help Luffy; Crocus isn’t leaving Reverse Mountain, and honestly, what help would he be based on what we know about him? That last bit also applies to Buggy, falling ass backwards into the greatest moments in the series won’t be enough against the strongest creature in the world.

 

[sanjikun]

I don't think Oden knew about Kaido until his return. At that point the Roger Pirates were disbanded, and WB had no idea.

 

[trav]

how would he let them know? there is no way to contact anyone.
think about the first time he left the island.

after Oden died:
WB and shanks could not attack Kaido in Wano or they would risk dying themselves.
and the Roger pirates went into hiding.

 

[Patryipe]

There is no plothole.

Oden didn't even know about Kaido ruling Wano before getting stuck there.

After his death it was no longer a matter of help, but only of revenge. The RP were disbanded, how were they supposed to track them down? And while the WBP would've won they would have taken heavy casualties. What if Big Meme exploited that to destroy the weakened WBP pirates? Not a good idea.

 

[Pantheos]

The only question for me is, will Shanks appear again? I mean, he was pretty Close to Oden back then, together at the Roger Crew. Also he knows Luffy is going to Wano (News of BM and Kaido spread), so maybe he thinks about old times?

The Problem is, Shanks probably has no idea about the prophecy, doesnt know anything about the Time-Travel or Momo being still alive. Where should he get These Infos about Momo and Co?

 

[Dr. Spook]

Hmm..
I don't think it's a plothole :unsure:

None of the scabbards had any knowledge on sailing or navigation, not even Inu and Neko.... and even if they did, how on earth would they have any idea where Whitebeard was, or any of the Roger Pirates (including Shanks) for that matter? And the Roger Pirates disbanded; its members live separately now.

Not to mention, that even now, none of them knows who the Yonko even are.. they have no idea on what the outside world is like, I mean look at Oden, he's even shocked at how there's a WG ruling many countries and stuff.. if any of the scabbards went sailing, they'd be stranded.. without any idea on what to do.. Look at what happened to Kinemon, Kanjuro and Raizou... And Kinemon would be fucked if he didn't meet the SH crew.


And the reason why they asked help from Marco now, is because they had an idea where he was... But with Shanks? The guy's basically everywhere... one time, he's in some random island, drinking with Mihawk, another time he's in reverie, and another time he's gone to a wedding somewhere, like wtf, Shanks?

 

[crazyclown]

Yes alot of people are waiting for a satisfactory explanation for this, its not a plothole i think, because even if its never touched upon and explained, its one of those things we need to sweep under the rug to sleep at night.

You can argue that during the first 5 years, they had no way of contacting the outside world. After Odens death and Kinemon and co getting sent to the future, I assume word eventually got out that Kaido is now based in Wano, the only explanation i can come up with is that they need to wait 20 years for Kinemons group? Thats why kinemon first plan is to gather the minks, then the WB pirates.

Not very solid argument since theres a pretty awful disregard to the Wano people suffering for a whole 20 years. So im hopeful for some explanation and payoff for these allies to appear sometime in act 4, but even if its not properly explained, im willing to let it slide..

 

[Monkey D Theories]

Hmm..
I don't think it's a plothole :unsure:

None of the scabbards had any knowledge on sailing or navigation, not even Inu and Neko.... and even if they did, how on earth would they have any idea where Whitebeard was, or any of the Roger Pirates (including Shanks) for that matter? And the Roger Pirates disbanded; its members live separately now.

Not to mention, that even now, none of them knows who the Yonko even are.. they have no idea on what the outside world is like, I mean look at Oden, he's even shocked at how there's a WG ruling many countries and stuff.. if any of the scabbards went sailing, they'd be stranded.. without any idea on what to do.. Look at what happened to Kinemon, Kanjuro and Raizou... And Kinemon would be fucked if he didn't meet the SH crew.


And the reason why they asked help from Marco now, is because they had an idea where he was... But with Shanks? The guy's basically everywhere... one time, he's in some random island, drinking with Mihawk, another time he's in reverie, and another time he's gone to a wedding somewhere, like wtf, Shanks?

Inu and neko left wano a long time ago, they could have done it.

contacting shanks or WB is fairly easy. All you have to do is go to their territory and talk to the lower ranked members of their crew

 

[Garp the Fist]

Why they never went for Shanks is the only one I really think needs explaining.

I can get why nobody went for help previous to Zou. Up until Oden's death they were obviously following his lead, and Orochi's clearly blackmailed him into not doing anything for five years.

When they did decide to attack Kaido, again, I think it's clear that Oden snapped. He wasn't thinking clearly about trying to go out, somehow get help and return, he wanted to end Kaido there and then. Sure, in hindsight, a bad decision but characters aren't perfect and we should expect them to make mistakes in the heat of the moment.

And up until the Strawhats were on the Zou the Scabbards were in disarray and really couldn't plan anything. Five of them were sent to the future. Inu and Neko ended up back on Zou unable to even talk to each other. Denjiro went missing. Kawamatsu was watching Hiyori. And Ashura first of all was trying to wait until the twenty years were up and the others returned, then gave up and went back to his own ways.

But in the present, yeah, they need to explain why they haven't went to the most powerful ally they could in Shanks. The Roger Pirates are in hiding so it makes sense that they didn't go for them, and Buggy works for the WG.

 

[Pantheos]

Why they never went for Shanks is the only one I really think needs explaining.

I can get why nobody went for help previous to Zou. Up until Oden's death they were obviously following his lead, and Orochi's clearly blackmailed him into not doing anything for five years.

When they did decide to attack Kaido, again, I think it's clear that Oden snapped. He wasn't thinking clearly about trying to go out, somehow get help and return, he wanted to end Kaido there and then. Sure, in hindsight, a bad decision but characters aren't perfect and we should expect them to make mistakes in the heat of the moment.

And up until the Strawhats were on the Zou the Scabbards were in disarray and really couldn't plan anything. Five of them were sent to the future. Inu and Neko ended up back on Zou unable to even talk to each other. Denjiro went missing. Kawamatsu was watching Hiyori. And Ashura first of all was trying to wait until the twenty years were up and the others returned, then gave up and went back to his own ways.

But in the present, yeah, they need to explain why they haven't went to the most powerful ally they could in Shanks. The Roger Pirates are in hiding so it makes sense that they didn't go for them, and Buggy works for the WG.

Otherwise, when we speak about These People... unknown about Denjiro, but the rest may doesnt even know about Shanks and how strong and meaningfull he is These days? If Luffy never mentions him, who should know about him?

 

[Garp the Fist]

Otherwise, when we speak about These People... unknown about Denjiro, but the rest may doesnt even know about Shanks and how strong and meaningfull he is These days? If Luffy never mentions him, who should know about him?

I'd say Inu and Neko should know. They may be isolated on Zou, but they still have contact with the outside world- they knew Doflamingo had been defeated, they knew Whitebeard was dead and that the Payback War had happened.

 

[Pantheos]

I'd say Inu and Neko should know. They may be isolated on Zou, but they still have contact with the outside world- they knew Doflamingo had been defeated, they knew Whitebeard was dead and that the Payback War had happened.

You are right, specially i would have assumed Shanks would visit These two at zuo when he is traveling around on the sea for this Long time. Specially zuo as Island should be interesting for him.

 

[Zenos7]

So after we learned all the lore about Oden and the scabbards and what kaido did to wano, there is one question that comes to my mind. If Oden was friends with all these different top tiers, then why did he never ask any of them to defeat kaido?

on a similar note:

Why didn't any of the scabbards ask these top tiers?

Like if they had decided to take out kaido 2 years ago they could have got the full whitebeard pirates and WB himself on their side, Shanks and the red hair pirates, as well as possibly Rayleigh and Scopper(if he is still alive). Kaido would be dead by now if they did something like that.

Even still, why do the dukes only ask for help from Marco. What about Shanks? the buggy pirates? Rayleigh? Crocus?
All of those people loved Oden and could have agreed to fight kaido with them(except for maybe buggy, but he could easily be manipulated if you offered to pay him for it).

I really hope Oda gives us a good answer as to why this didn't happen and not something contrived

Spoiler

Hardly a plothole when its already adressed

 

[Monkey D Theories]

Spoiler

Hardly a plothole when its already adressed

But that was before he knew about kaido

I think it’s stupid for the people of wano to have struggled for 20 years when there were at one time 3 top tiers(shanks, Rayleigh, Whitebeard) who might have been willing to help. And that(as far as we can tell), Inu and neko(who had escaped wano and lived on Zou) made zero effort to contact them

 

[Zenos7]

But that was before he knew about kaido

I think it’s stupid for the people of wano to have struggled for 20 years when there were at one time 3 top tiers(shanks, Rayleigh, Whitebeard) who might have been willing to help. And that(as far as we can tell), Inu and neko(who had escaped wano and lived on Zou) made zero effort to contact them

it doesnt matter, he doesnt want help because he feels that the burden of doing this is on the kozuki family.

Or maybe he did want help and the whole thing with the "boat" in the last chapter is about that.

In either case its not really a plothole.

 

[Garp the Fist]

Spoiler

Hardly a plothole when its already adressed

That doesn't address the problem. It was the case in the past that Oden (and therefore the Scabbards) considered it to be something they needed to do on their own.

But in the present day the Scabbards are now accepting help. They, on hands and knees, begged Luffy to help them. They went after Marco. So the question of why they haven't asked the most powerful potential ally out there, who not only is individually a powerhouse but has an incredible crew as well, needs answering.

 

[Zenos7]

That doesn't address the problem. It was the case in the past that Oden (and therefore the Scabbards) considered it to be something they needed to do on their own.

But in the present day the Scabbards are now accepting help. They, on hands and knees, begged Luffy to help them. They went after Marco. So the question of why they haven't asked the most powerful potential ally out there, who not only is individually a powerhouse but has an incredible crew as well, needs answering.

oden is not around anymore, and im not sure the scabbards themselves have ever voiced that exact same opinion.

Also:

it doesnt matter, he doesnt want help because he feels that the burden of doing this is on the kozuki family.

Or maybe he did want help and the whole thing with the "boat" in the last chapter is about that.

In either case its not really a plothole.

Not to mention setting sail and actually finding WB might be an impossible task for oden in the first place.


Edit: Finding shanks for the retainers is probably also not an easy task considering he is not exactly staying put like the other yonko. Neko had a hunch that marco would be staying at the specific island WB was from, thats kinda different to a moving yonko pirate crew.