Questions & Mysteries The Full Might of YAN

Number of Generals on the level of Qin 6/ Zhao 3

  • 1

    Votes: 1 33.3%
  • 2

    Votes: 1 33.3%
  • 3

    Votes: 1 33.3%
  • 4

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
Hey what's up guys, we've had a lot of threads revolving around the Chu and Zhao. So I wanted to make an indepth analysis of the potential threat the state of Yan could pose to our boys in the future. I will be using some historical facts related to Yan and the unification, however, majority of the analysis will be based on simply the manga. The historical facts will be labeled so you can skip over them if need be.


We know the mighty state of Chu has been brought up as the "powerhouse" state, where the likes of Man'U and such can be find across Chu. Constantly highlighted that their military power is a mystery, along with the strength of their top general being a mystery to the state of Qin due to them not having a lot of intel network on the Eastern fringes of China. So a powerful state that's filled with mysteries. However, Chu is not the state who's military prowess is the least known to the Qin. The state who's military prowess is least known to the Qin would be Yan.

The reasons why it's a mystery

1st. The location of Yan is in the opposite side of China, with the state of Zhao being the buffer between Qin-Yan. Qin had tried to gather intel on Yan, but their communications would often get cut over in Chuuzan, that was located between Zhao & Yan.

2nd. Due to their location, there has been no battle between the Yan & Qin for decades. Thus the Qin are mostly ignorant to them. However, there was one Great General from Yan who's name was spread through China, and he was Gekishin.

So Yan is the big UNKNOWN to the Qin when it comes to military power. Now a lot of fans have often determined Yan's military prowess based on Gekishin, and some have even considered Gekishin to be a top tier general. So in order for me get into my theory, I want to first address where Gekishin actually stood and how powerful he actually was.


Seeing various Gekishin posts on this forum, I've seen some people call him out for what he was, then others putting on par with some of the current Qin 6, and others even hyping him up to be on par with the likes of Ouki & Gakuki. So where did Gekishin actually stand? Let's take a look.
Some of the statements of his reputation gives a lot of false perception that he actually stood on par with the likes of Qin 6 or was in their same caliber. So let's look at his reputation when it comes to against the Qin 6/Zhao3/ Gakuki himself.

Firstly, he's not that well renowned in the Qin. Now some might say it's due to the fact Yan is on the opposite side, for sure, that possibly plays a part in it.. but then lets look at the next piece here.

Secondly, the false narrative that led to his fame. The narrative that's known to some of the characters regarding him is that HE alongside Gakuki, was able to counter the superstate of Qi and save Yan from brink of destruction.

However, the narrator has a different version of it of that very same event, at the start of Gekishin's flashback:

From the above panel we're revealed to multiple things:
1st. Gekishin wasn't even a great general at that time. And if he was, he was nowhere near Gakuki when it comes to reputation. Since ALL the voices of the people would give cry to only one name, Gakuki.
2nd. It was Gakuki who saved the Yan and countered the Qi, not Gekishin & Gakuki. But Gakuki alone.
3rd. It was Gakuki alone, not Gakuki with Gekishin or such, that kept the balance across China when he was alive.

Thirdly, how did Geksihin become famous? Two things:

1st. He was alongside Gakuki when he dominated the east. (again the narrator says Gakuki dominated the East, not both of them). And during that time Gakuki was a huge wall for Gekishin, that he never came close to overcoming, instead tried to copy that Wall.

2nd. Politics, Gakuki was exiled from Yan due to political reasons right before he could fully capture Qi. After he was replaced the Qi led a counter attack against the Yan and conquered back a good amount of territory, all while Gekishin was there. Thus Gekishin, the general who was there with Gakuki's side and remained in Yan got the Hero title as well. Thus leading to him being the #1 general of Yan (remember this isn't about being the strongest, but the one with the most renowned and authority out of all the Yan generals)

So his fame is not even close to being the same as the Qin 6 or Zhao 3... let alone being close to Gakuki, the man who's held in a different light from the Zhao 3, even by the Zhao themselves:

His abilities:

His abilities are certainly not that of being on par with the Qin 6. Outside of riding Gakuki's coattails, he has no legit feat that he accomplished that we know of. Let's look at all the things that point to the seperation between him & the Qin 6 + Gakuki:

His overwhelming defeat against Riboku:

Some folks like to think he pushed Riboku to high-diff or something, but sadly that's not even close to being the case. Riboku gave him one of the hardest spankings, if not the hardest, that we've seen a Great General receive in this series. He was defeated within little over half a day, with an army that was on par with Riboku's in terms of numbers. For perspective, a much more experienced Riboku is now being kept over a day by a Qin 6 member, Kanki despite the giant out number. Qin 6 member Ouki (though he had an army nerf) had gone many days against Riboku at Bayou, against a far more powerful strategy. Or take the Shukai plains where it went to many days despite the smaller numbers.

The war is also described by Ordo himself as an overwhelming victory for Riboku:

Riboku is not spanking any Qin 6 caliber general, let alone Gakuki's caliber general.. within little over half a day. Overwhelming victory, I'd reckon is a low-diff by Riboku, but can be generous and say Gekishin pushed Riboku to mid-diff.

Strategical abilities:

He copied and implimented a lot of strategies that Gakuki used, and got a decent comprehension of Gakuki's methodology. But in the end it was just a copy, hence the narrator at the very end saying, Gekishin's warfare had similarties with Gakuki's, rather than it being Gakuki's warfare:

His strategical ability is going by stats is roughly on par with current Mouten's. And going by just the manga can manage to push Riboku to mid-diff or so (being generous).

Martial ability:

Man is a chump. Going by stats he's 1-shot material for the likes of YTW/SHK/Moubu/Tou/Ouhon/Shin/etc. Going by the manga he's a fraud of a great general. As showcased when he tried to flex how his strength as a Great General is even further beyond reason, then Houken thought of Ouki's words, and proceeded to neg-diff him and call him a fraud:

He has no "weight" since all he fights for his money.

Overall, he's a Gyou'un caliber commander, in terms of raw ability. And little better than the likes of Mougou/Choutou as a Great General... but by no means is he Qin 6 /Zhao 3 level, let alone Gakuki level. For fuck's sake, Gakuki stands at a wide margin above Hakuki & Ouki in warfare experience with near top of SS. While this dude by his 60s/70s is only at A.

So overall, from Yan we've seen Gekishin & Ordo. Gekishin who's at best Gyou'un level commander. And we have Ordo, who again is nowhere close to the Qin 6, and got embarrassed hard by one of the current Qin6, and couldn't get past a Zhao 3-caliber despite a 4to1 numbers advantage. Effectively at this very moment in the series, from the available information to us Yan has nothing to match the Qin and should be an easy 1-sided stomp. Now this is where my theory comes into play.


Logically the Yan need to have at the very least 2 individuals who can challenge the Qin 6 level individuals, if it's going to be a worthwhile arc. Something that we have not seen so far. For this it leads me to multiple speculations that i'm going to point here.

Politics of Yan (past historical info contained):
The political scene of Yan is not exactly the most stable if we go by some of the known historical information. King Sho was able to bring back the state back to it's military might thanks to Guo Wei & Gakuki. However, King Ki (with influence from Qi agents) then in the fear of Gakuki rebelling or gaining too much power, removed Gakuki from command of the Yan Army just before Gakuki could succeed in conquering Qi fully. Which led to Gakuki leaving into retirement. This further then led to the Qi taking back territory from the Yan. Now Yan stands about roughly the same size as Zhao.

So there is potential for turmoil in the political scene when it comes to Yan, since the current King was responsible for the legendary Gakuki's exile and the Qi taking back the lands it could've had.

Historical prowess:

The first Yan invasion from what we know at the very least will involve Shin, Moubu, and Ousen. Considering it happens 8 years from now, it's essentially 3 Qin 6 level individuals + the likelihood of Yotanwa being involved is also pretty high. During this time the Yan were also fighting the Xiongnu and tried to call for peace with them so they could focus on the Qin threat. After the Qin had pushed Yan a decent amount back, the Yan had gotten the Qin to agree to a peace treaty for 2+ years. Now Yan was atleast a threat enough that the Qin (due to also dealing with other threats) could not fully finish it off, and thought best to go with the peace treaty while they take care of the other states. Which they then did with Ouhon & Shin doing the final invasion of Yan, right before the conquest of Chu. This final campaign happens in the same time as the final Chu campaign. So post-Shin getting fucked up by SHK & Kouen. So I'd reckon this could also serve as a "rebound" campaign for Shin maybe, for which you would atleast need a decent general to post a threat.

1st Speculation:

The remnants of Gakuki would resurface. This is very akin to how the remnants of Rinshoujou went into retirement until the now Qin invasion, it's very possible that Gakuki's subordinates went into retirement due to the dirty politics done by the Yan King on Gakuki. However, would resurface to save the nation when it's existance is questioned, as it is still the state Gakuki gave his life to. Considering the likes of Riboku having Keisha (somebody who could push a Qin 6 level individual much farther than the likes of Gekishin could push Riboku), Bananji who could be on par with Koushou, Shunsuiju as his deputies + other strong subordinates. Ouki having somebody like Tou. Renpa having his 4 heavenly Kings... It'd only make sense that the "Military God" had subordinates on par with the other top notch GGs, if not subordinates who were superior to theirs. One of these could end up being a Qin 6 level individual akin to Shibashou.

2nd Speculation:

Powerful generals are busy fighting the Northern Steppe tribes (refer to historical information). Since we know Ordo has conquered a good amount of mountain tribes, and Gekishin was the leader of the Quanrong leftovers in Yan. There's a likelihood that towards Korean pennisula and away from the Qi/Zhao borders they are waging wars with the Mountain tribes there. Similar to how Yotanwa was doing in Qin, Riboku was doing so in Zhao. So it's possible for a Qin 6 level individual to arrive from there, which would be similar to Yotanwa and Riboku growing in their Qin 6 level selves by fighting against the Northern Steppe Tribes.

3rd Speculation:

This is something based on what Ten said.

We could get some of the Xiongnu involved here, where they decide to team up with the Yan to take on the Qin, as they could see the Qin as a potential threat. And while we know there are mountain tribes involved with the Yan armies that we've seen, they're certainly not the Xiongnu. The Xiongnu have been hyped up since the very beginning, to have military understanding far exceeding any other mountain tribes. They had been threat to all states who've had their borders against the north, hence the various walls could be found in Qin/Zhao/Yan. Even the powerful Quanrong that we saw in Zhao (a small bunch of them had somebody like Rozo and his commanders lol), referred to the Xiongnu as: "Great Xiongnu of the North". So we could get a Qin 6 level individual from the Xiongnu or other potential mountain tribes the Yan had been fighting but then allied with.

These are my 3 speculation regarding the Yan. I think Gekishin & Ordo are FAR away from the top generals of Yan that we will see. And above the three scenarios I can see end up being the case, atleast 1 if not all of them could end up happening, even if not all of them might not give Qin 6 level generals, they'd give powerful generals that could pose a challenge to the Qin6 freaks.

So please share with me your opinions on the YAN MILITARY at its full might:

Number of Qin 6 level GG inidividuals:
Number of Ordo level GG individuals:
Number of strong subordinate generals (the likes of Gyou'un/Bananji/etc):
Interesting thread. @TheKnightOfTheSea made a previous post regarding future events including the Yan campaign. I think the states of Wei and Yan will be mid/high-diff campaigns that won't take as long as the Zhao/Chu campaigns. Every state usually has one main adversary that has to be defeated (Riboku, Gouhoumei, Ordo, etc.) and by the time this happens the younger trio will be much closer to the level of 6GG.
This is a really enjoyable read. Kudos. I wish we'd have more like this. I can only really respond with a few (probably hot) takes of mine;

1. It really wasn't Gakuki alone who did it. He was #1, absolutely, but simply put Gekishin does not earn the rank he held from within the state unless he accomplished things that were also incredible. Not as good as Gakuki, that much is clear, but still special. Ordo isn't going to respect a fraud, Saitaku isn't going respect a fraud, King Ouken isn't going to praise a fraud. These people aren't fools. My general interpretation here is that Gakuki is about as peak tier as it gets - like your Ouki, Renpa or Hakuki, whilst Gekishin is in the "may have been..." conversation. So he's either not quite Q6 level or he's barely. That is still an absolute monster - look at Gokei or Gohoumei of a few years ago. Gakuki isn't the measuring stick to what a monster is - he is arguably the mother of all monsters.

2. A Qin 6 guy could actually be spanked by Riboku if they were foolish enough to duel Houken. Imagine if Kyou or Duke duelled Houken on day 1 of a war against Zhap? It's an instant L. Gekishin's backstory was obviously known to Riboku, as was Gekishin's history known to Riboku. That's why he could use it so well. Don't forget, Gekishin did see through Riboku's plan. Whilst I am not one of those who believes Houken 'saved' Riboku, there is still the fact that Houken being there enabled such a victory. It's also worth noting that Keisha was in the middle of that war - whilst we do not know of Gekishin's army, it's still a Zhao army of the GOAT + a FD standard general.

3. I think it's a little disengenious to use that single description box when talking about Gekishin's strategical abilities. Why not use the other ones available? "Gekishin possessed the actual talent to reproduce Gakuki's warfare" and "Gekishin's words, were most certainly not an exaggeration". You left these two lines out, which paint a totally different picture, don't they? Now, whilst i don't take these two statements as being evidence of some parity between the two, I believe you have gone too far the other way. It's huge praise.

4. The Gyou'un comparison is an interesting one and I wouldn't dispute that too much - but the Choutou or Mougou comparisons are direspectful. He's on a totally different level. Gekishin is a certified, genuine, Great General. It's like saying Choutou or Mougou can compare to Gokei? C'mon.

I agree with your ideas about Yan's hidden strength though. They will absolutely have all the best mountain tribes. They will have top tier GG's. YTW may have her equal, for eg. Ordo has just had a huge bonus to his army. And then there is obviously a good chance for Hara to simply create a General who is top tier talent, but is not at an age where he could demonstrate it often.

Every state will have its obstacle. I don't think think Ordo will be a push over now that he has had his power creep.


Saw this page and theoretically it would indirectly confirm that Yan have another Great General;

For there to be a debate over Ordo, there must be someone else of note who possesses the rank and prestige to challenge his case.
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