Questions & Mysteries The Kenjaku/Uraume/Sukuna plan - Who is playing who?

#1
After a short convo with @Worst I chose to make this thread since the conclussion of this plot point is one of the burning questions of JJK for me. But also for the resolution of the story as a whole.

Sukuna has been introduced to us in chapter 1 of Jujutsu Kaisen as THE bad guy and the vehicle around which the whole story will be set. The quest for his fingers and the subsequent fight/Itadori's execution were set up as out end goals. And, through occasional appearances, Sukuna reminded and reminds the readers of his presence and importance.

Enter Kenjaku.

If anyone wasn't familiar with Yuta's one-shot before reading JJK (and most readers weren't, let's face it), Kenjaku's first appearance as Getwo wouldn't be that important of a reveal, especially considering that the actual reveal of the body-hoping 1000+-year-old sorcerer wasn't to come for another couple of dozen chapters.

However, from his very first appearance and first scheme (later known to be the Shibuya plan), Kenjaku underlines the importance of making Sukuna an ally.




At this point, Kenjaku and Sukuna knowing each other personally wouldn't have been the first thing on anyone's mind since Sukuna was a well-known legendary figure among the jujutsu community. Anyone worth their salt has heard about the King of Curses.

During Shibuya, a character that, so far, was mostly nailed to the background, makes their first real move - Uraume talks to Sukuna in chapter 116. Even though Sukuna has been aggressive and arrogant towards everyone who interacted with him so far, he is actually surprised to see Uraume and tells her to "don't neglect her preparations" after which we get this response:


The ending of Shibuya cements for us the fact that Uraume is in league with Kenjaku, who starts the Culling Games and a new age of chaos with it.

With the most recent developments we have seen that fans' speculations were indeed true - the CG is some sort of ritual whose purpose is known only to Kenjaku and Tengen (that we know of so far). And since Uraume has been by Kenjaku's side this whole time, it is safe to assume that she knows at least some of the end goal of the CG.

But are the preparations Sukuna was talking about actually the Culling Game?

Or do Sukuna and Uraume have a separate plan?

Kenjaku, being the schemer that he is who has actually lived through the last 1000 years and amassed as much experience should be aware of any scheming going on behind his back, no?

How much does he know? Is he in league with them too?

If so, then why did he underline the importance of making Sukuna an ally before Shibuya if they were already allies to begin with?
Just to play with the Curses?

If it's Kenjaku vs Sukuna and Uraume, what could their individual goals be and how do they tie into the Culling Games?

Did Kenjaku manage to sway Uraume to his side during the time they were working together? Will Uraume backstab Sukuna, hence her sad expression during Shibuya?


What are your thoughts on this subplot?

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Worst

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#2
If Kenjaku and Sukuna were allies it wouldn't make sense for him to say " we have to make Sukuna our ally " cuz if he had said he's friend with Sukuna from the start, the curses ( Jogo, Marito etc ) would have been even more motivated to follow the plan, which they were already willing to follow even if it meant their deaths......

Kenjaku's original plan was to revive Sukuna and make him his ally ( despite probably knowing he's not the kind of guy who takes orders ) now he said it doesn't matter if he's an ally or not as long as he lives inside ittadori

Sukuna however expects to be free again ( its 100% related to the pact he made with Yuji ) and apparently he also has some preparations going on for a millenia lol i mean maybe dying and becoming a curse was part of his original plan?

Also when Kenjaku's game / ritual started we didn't got any reaction from Sukuna as far as I remember like " all according to the plan " or " wtf is this "

So i don't think Sukuna / Kenjaku are together

Now we know nothing about Uraume x Sukuna just that Uraume used to cook humans for him lol

Lots of things can happen during a millenia so it's really hard to say is Uraume stayed loyal to Sukuna or became friends with Kenjaku and betrayed Sukuna

However given the fact that there is more mystery around Sukuna and his motives i like to think that his scheme is the one that will prevail......
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Oh didn't noticed but Kenjaku said an Ally of Ittadori and Sukuna so probably he never had the intention of letting Sukuna run wild but only through Yuji....
 
#3
If Kenjaku and Sukuna were allies it wouldn't make sense for him to say " we have to make Sukuna our ally " cuz if he had said he's friend with Sukuna from the start, the curses ( Jogo, Marito etc ) would have been even more motivated to follow the plan, which they were already willing to follow even if it meant their deaths......

Kenjaku's original plan was to revive Sukuna and make him his ally ( despite probably knowing he's not the kind of guy who takes orders ) now he said it doesn't matter if he's an ally or not as long as he lives inside ittadori

Sukuna however expects to be free again ( its 100% related to the pact he made with Yuji ) and apparently he also has some preparations going on for a millenia lol i mean maybe dying and becoming a curse was part of his original plan?

Also when Kenjaku's game / ritual started we didn't got any reaction from Sukuna as far as I remember like " all according to the plan " or " wtf is this "

So i don't think Sukuna / Kenjaku are together

Now we know nothing about Uraume x Sukuna just that Uraume used to cook humans for him lol

Lots of things can happen during a millenia so it's really hard to say is Uraume stayed loyal to Sukuna or became friends with Kenjaku and betrayed Sukuna

However given the fact that there is more mystery around Sukuna and his motives i like to think that his scheme is the one that will prevail......
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Oh didn't noticed but Kenjaku said an Ally of Ittadori and Sukuna so probably he never had the intention of letting Sukuna run wild but only through Yuji....
There is a slight possibility Kenjaku told them they need Sukuna on their side just to make them think they (Kenjaku/Sukuna) aren't allies already. So that Jogo would force feed Itadori the fingers to appease Sukuna, and Sukuna would maybe break free.

This ofc only partially happened, but we're speculating anyway.

Also, even though there wasn't any explicit reaction from Sukuna towards the CGs, I still think this ritual is at least part of the preparations Uraume was supposed to do.

I hope the next few months give us more insight into that.
 

Light D Lamperouge

𝖂𝖍𝖆𝖙 𝕮𝖔𝖚𝖑𝖉 𝕳𝖆𝖛𝖊 𝕭𝖊𝖊𝖓
#4
They are probably playing each other and aware of each other's schemes and not directly allied. Uraume's allegiance is tricky. I'd expect she's with Sukuna, but you never know.

If Sukuna is supposed to be the main antagonist of the manga then it's logical that his scheme will come out on top. As for what it is, I am not sure yet. It's deffo connected with Megumi, and it could be a new body for him or the theorized black space that Megumi might be able to enter using his shadows.

Another interesting theory I saw was that the back of the prison realm is housing Sukuna's original body. And it might be the reason why Sukuna needs Megumi. Tengen pulled it out using some shadow tech as we saw in the chapter, so Megumi might be able to access the same place and free Sukuna's og body if it is there.
 
#5
Kenjaku is decent but I hope sukuna is not only the final villain but also gets appropriate manga time for it and not some villain who is only there for 5-6 chapters.

Pretty sure kenjaku and sukuna have their own goals and may even collide with each other
 
#6
Kenjaku is decent but I hope sukuna is not only the final villain but also gets appropriate manga time for it and not some villain who is only there for 5-6 chapters.

Pretty sure kenjaku and sukuna have their own goals and may even collide with each other
I'd wager a guess that the whole final stretch of the manga will be a vs Sukuna arc
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They are probably playing each other and aware of each other's schemes and not directly allied. Uraume's allegiance is tricky. I'd expect she's with Sukuna, but you never know.

If Sukuna is supposed to be the main antagonist of the manga then it's logical that his scheme will come out on top. As for what it is, I am not sure yet. It's deffo connected with Megumi, and it could be a new body for him or the theorized black space that Megumi might be able to enter using his shadows.

Another interesting theory I saw was that the back of the prison realm is housing Sukuna's original body. And it might be the reason why Sukuna needs Megumi. Tengen pulled it out using some shadow tech as we saw in the chapter, so Megumi might be able to access the same place and free Sukuna's og body if it is there.
Yeah, I read the same theory somewhere (reddit probabky)

Imo, Sukuna is after Megumi's CT and not for his body. At least not in the sense that he wants to take over his bidy, but rather to eat it (if that's how he gets new CTs, also a popular theory)

As far as the connection between the Curse Realm and the Ten Shadows, I'm not a big fan of it atm. Megumi should've noticed and commented on the fact that he has acess to, basically, another plane of existance. As it is now, his shadows follow common anime/fantasy logic and are just accessible by him through his technique and not some sort of access-anything portal. They have a finite space, as he mentioned vs Reggie, and the Curse Realm probably doesn't (or at least has a lot more storage room)
 
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Worst

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#7
I'd wager a guess that the whole final stretch of the manga will be a vs Sukuna arc
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Yeah, I read the same theory somewhere (reddit probabky)

Imo, Sukuna is after Megumi's CT and not for his body. At least not in the sense that he wants to take over his bidy, but rather to eat it (if that's how he gets new CTs, also a popular theory)

As far as the connection between the Curse Realm and the Ten Shadows, I'm not a big fan of it atm. Megumi should've noticed and commented on the fact that he has acess to, basically, another plane of existance. As it is now, his shadows follow common anime/fantasy logic and are just accessible by him through his technique and not some sort of access-anything portal. They have a finite space, as he mentioned vs Reggie, and the Curse Realm probably doesn't (or at least has a lot more storage room)
Not sure he wants to eat Megumi xD

When he healed him he said " don't die, there's something i need you to do " so maybe Megumi's CT is a key to free him
 

Light D Lamperouge

𝖂𝖍𝖆𝖙 𝕮𝖔𝖚𝖑𝖉 𝕳𝖆𝖛𝖊 𝕭𝖊𝖊𝖓
#11
mo, Sukuna is after Megumi's CT and not for his body. At least not in the sense that he wants to take over his bidy, but rather to eat it (if that's how he gets new CTs, also a popular theory)
I might have worded it poorly. I didn't mean that he wants to take over Megumi's body, I meant he needs Megumi to get him a new body. Either by I guess getting his original one, the back of the prison realm thingy, or the other idea, that Sukuna wants to become Megumi's shikigami with a new body and then break free. This can be very useful for Sukuna cuz he can get even stronger thanks to Megumi's tech. The destroyed shikigami pass on their power and CT to the rest of the shikigami


As far as the connection between the Curse Realm and the Ten Shadows, I'm not a big fan of it atm. Megumi should've noticed and commented on the fact that he has acess to, basically, another plane of existance. As it is now, his shadows follow common anime/fantasy logic and are just accessible by him through his technique and not some sort of access-anything portal. They have a finite space, as he mentioned vs Reggie, and the Curse Realm probably doesn't (or at least has a lot more storage room)
I think it will be when Megumi gains a perfected, complete domain. There must be a reason why Megumi has not yet been able to fully manifest a complete domain. This could be it.
 

Light D Lamperouge

𝖂𝖍𝖆𝖙 𝕮𝖔𝖚𝖑𝖉 𝕳𝖆𝖛𝖊 𝕭𝖊𝖊𝖓
#14
Amazing theory regarding the "bath"
@Vanitas Zogratis you might want to check it out
https://www.reddit.com/r/Jujutsushi/comments/105hl0s
I just finished reading it. Damn that was quite the research and quite a theory. And yeah I think it lines up perfectly.

The separation thing has been mentioned previously I believe.

The interesting part to me is whether Sukuna will remove Yuji and take over the body or whether they will split.

I think the second one might be more likely and that ties into my theory about Megumi and why he needs Megumi to do something for him

Another interesting theory I saw was that the back of the prison realm is housing Sukuna's original body. And it might be the reason why Sukuna needs Megumi. Tengen pulled it out using some shadow tech as we saw in the chapter, so Megumi might be able to access the same place and free Sukuna's og body if it is there.
I might have worded it poorly. I didn't mean that he wants to take over Megumi's body, I meant he needs Megumi to get him a new body. Either by I guess getting his original one, the back of the prison realm thingy, or the other idea, that Sukuna wants to become Megumi's shikigami with a new body and then break free. This can be very useful for Sukuna cuz he can get even stronger thanks to Megumi's tech. The destroyed shikigami pass on their power and CT to the rest of the shikigami



I think it will be when Megumi gains a perfected, complete domain. There must be a reason why Megumi has not yet been able to fully manifest a complete domain. This could be it.

And that's this imo. One of these two options.


And it's most likely the first one. Sukuna notices that Megumi's tech involves shadows and ponders about it and calls it much more practical. I think the shadows thing is quite important.
 

Worst

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#15
Here some new thoughts of mine after re reading 212 and thinking through.....


Looks like all of these sorcerers of the past have a sort of binding vow with Kenjaku, which involves fighting Sukuna at some point.

This means that we are about 100% guaranteed to see a magnificent Sukuna vs All at some point, but not for the reason we might think!

I wonder if Sukuna has a similar binding vow with Kenjaku, where Kenjaku needed great amounts of CE and Sukuna wanted another 1 vs All so they made a binding vow with one another, where Sukuna would have provided the CE and Kenjaku would have gathered all the strongest sorcerers through time for Sukuna to fight them.

Now i also wonder if Kenjaku ( knowing Sukuna lol ) wanted to find a way to respect his binding vow with the other sorcerers but not with Sukuna, so he tried to engineer the perfect vessel that could not only host him but keep him caged ( maybe that's why Sukuna was surprised he couldn't take control of Yuji right away ) so if the other sorcerers were to fight Yuji they would have also fought against Sukuna, without the need of Sukuna to be in control.

Maybe Sukuna knew Kenjaku would have tried to" trick him " so he made some other arrangemens with Uraume, and when he realized whatever he realized about Megumi's technique instead of making a binding vow to permanently take over Yuji ( which he could have easily accomplish imho ) he decided to wait for Megumi to mature enough and in the end take a gamble to take over his body maybe even freeing himself if he had a binding vow with Kenjaku, cuz he now found himself a new vessel so he's pretty much free to do whatever he wants...
 
#16
Here some new thoughts of mine after re reading 212 and thinking through.....


Looks like all of these sorcerers of the past have a sort of binding vow with Kenjaku, which involves fighting Sukuna at some point.

This means that we are about 100% guaranteed to see a magnificent Sukuna vs All at some point, but not for the reason we might think!

I wonder if Sukuna has a similar binding vow with Kenjaku, where Kenjaku needed great amounts of CE and Sukuna wanted another 1 vs All so they made a binding vow with one another, where Sukuna would have provided the CE and Kenjaku would have gathered all the strongest sorcerers through time for Sukuna to fight them.

Now i also wonder if Kenjaku ( knowing Sukuna lol ) wanted to find a way to respect his binding vow with the other sorcerers but not with Sukuna, so he tried to engineer the perfect vessel that could not only host him but keep him caged ( maybe that's why Sukuna was surprised he couldn't take control of Yuji right away ) so if the other sorcerers were to fight Yuji they would have also fought against Sukuna, without the need of Sukuna to be in control.

Maybe Sukuna knew Kenjaku would have tried to" trick him " so he made some other arrangemens with Uraume, and when he realized whatever he realized about Megumi's technique instead of making a binding vow to permanently take over Yuji ( which he could have easily accomplish imho ) he decided to wait for Megumi to mature enough and in the end take a gamble to take over his body maybe even freeing himself if he had a binding vow with Kenjaku, cuz he now found himself a new vessel so he's pretty much free to do whatever he wants...
I still think Megumi's body won't be able to handle Sukuna's eventual full 20-finger power (this sounds so dirty lmao)

But an out-of-story reason I could see for Sukuna getting his og body soon is brand/design recognition. Pink haired Sukuna is iconic, whether it's when he takes over Yuji's body (which resembles his og one a bit) or when we see his original design from a 1000 years ago.

Megumi Sukuna looks cool, ngl, but it just looks like a regular demon possesion, while Yuji Sukuna looks right in a sense. Like that is how Sukuna is supposed to look like

That's why the last 5 fingers will play a huge role in the set up of the final fight and I wouldn't be surprised if Yuji eats those.
 

Worst

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#17
I still think Megumi's body won't be able to handle Sukuna's eventual full 20-finger power (this sounds so dirty lmao)

But an out-of-story reason I could see for Sukuna getting his og body soon is brand/design recognition. Pink haired Sukuna is iconic, whether it's when he takes over Yuji's body (which resembles his og one a bit) or when we see his original design from a 1000 years ago.

Megumi Sukuna looks cool, ngl, but it just looks like a regular demon possesion, while Yuji Sukuna looks right in a sense. Like that is how Sukuna is supposed to look like

That's why the last 5 fingers will play a huge role in the set up of the final fight and I wouldn't be surprised if Yuji eats those.
i agree it's really weird to see Megumi / Sukuna lol for some reason Yuji-Sukuna feels really natural, but it's probably because we're just used to it xD

But i don't think Megumi's body will have problems handling Sukuna, the only reason Yuji is able to suppress him is bc he was designed to do so, Megumi didn't so he's acting like a regular vessel where Sukuna can do what he pleases with the body.

Additionally while not on par with Yuji Megumi was shown to have crazy stamina too so imho he's prefectly capable of being Sukuna's vessel...
 
#18
Bump

TCB's translation made the chapter clearer but also opened a new can of worms

Sukuna wanted Megumi's body from the moment he saw the Ten Shadows used, but he states that he could sense that Megumi could supress Sukuna so he had to wait for his soul to break etc

Does this cheapen Yuji's role as a cage for Sukuna for anyone else?

I mean, Sukuna himself says about Megumi that he could supress Sukuna unless he was completely broken down. Who's to say that other sorcerers couldn't do the same at this point.
 

Marimo_420

The Honoured One
#19
Bump

TCB's translation made the chapter clearer but also opened a new can of worms

Sukuna wanted Megumi's body from the moment he saw the Ten Shadows used, but he states that he could sense that Megumi could supress Sukuna so he had to wait for his soul to break etc

Does this cheapen Yuji's role as a cage for Sukuna for anyone else?

I mean, Sukuna himself says about Megumi that he could supress Sukuna unless he was completely broken down. Who's to say that other sorcerers couldn't do the same at this point.
Nah Megumi is just that much of a prodigy. He's someone who even Gojo thinks is capable of surpassing himself. He's an anomaly.
 
#20
Bump


After this batch of chapters things are... still not really clear lol

Sukuna clearly had plans of his own with Megumi, which he acted on the first chance he got.

Kenjaku has managed to acquire Tengen and wants to complete the "merger". The result of that is still unknown.

However, Kenjaku and Sukuna still have an unknown pact where Sukuna was the one that promised to do something in exchange for something.

What's also interesting is that Kenjaku brought Sukuna his old body back, yet created a rule where the CG will end if Kenny and Megumi are the only people alive at the end.
Is he planning on double crossing Sukuna with his old body as bait

Stuff we can assume for now:
- Sukuna is unaware of Kenjaku's merger scheme
- Kenjaku didn't know Sukuna would take over Megumi's body/leave Yuji
- Sukuna is on a quest to find "true love" in the sense of an equal in strength, so that might affect his arrangement with Kenjaku
- Uraume isn,t as independent as we thought. She/he is and was a Sukuna agent through and through.
 
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