Questions & Mysteries The Kurozumi Hag

#21
Going to be bold and say it:

The “old hag” is a CP0 Agent. It’s kind of obvious.

Therefore, she has no actual ties to the Kurozumi Family, she simply learned the basics of the history behind the Daimyo Kurozumi’s plot to kill the other daimyos and used her knowledge to manipulate Orochi.

A major point that you brought up is that her ideology is the same as that of Doflamingo. What is a Doflamingo? A Celestial Dragon. Who are intrinsically tied to the Celestial Dragons? CP Aeigis 0.

The reason they have Shiki’s face is also because of an event that we were told about several chapters ago... The Gods Valley incident.


When Xebec attacked the Celestial Dragons, the “old hag” (a Shield of the Celestial Dragons) somehow managed to touch Shiki’s face and subsequently acquired his persona.

The WG sent the “old hag” to Wano so that they could install a shogunate that would end the centuries old policy of not cooperating with the WG.

Feel free to @ me.
Agreed. There is still an open possibility that she works for Cipher Pol. Ever since before Wano began, there has been a significant amount of focus on the fact that the World Government does not control Wano. CP0 agents visited Orochi personally. They protected Doflamingo and arrived in Dressrosa, and we were told that Doflamingo was the middleman to trade with Wano and currently they have to deal with a wild card being Orochi himself. This very chapter we are told that Wano is in a way FREE because the WG or Marines have no hold over it.

Do we actually know when Wano started trading Seastone with the World Government? This may never happened when the Kozuki Clan was in charge, but with Orochi, Doflamingo and Kaido there is money to be made. Doflamingo made money from all sorts of characters, no loyalty from him. Wano could be the biggest producer and most reliable source of seastone for the WG. Vegapunk hasn't been around for 800 years, he only recently started producing all theses amazing things which includes his work with seastone and Wano's supply might be essential to his work, forcing the government to make a plan to acquire it from Wano.

The old lady could have brushed shoulders with Shiki in in her prime. We don't know his exact appearance back then. Surely Cipher Pol was there to defend the Celestial Dragons anytime Rocks threatened them. She could have told Orochi to start exporting Seastone because it's an easy way to make money. A mythical Zoan should be quite easy for the World Government to provide, all the Admirals have powerful Devil Fruits and I doubt they just got lucky sailing in the sea. Telling Orochi to manufacture weapons and giving him that DF was for his own defense, as the other Daimyo clans could violently overthrow him and set the WG's plan back to square one. Orochi got upset he was being manipulated by a spy, killed this woman and sought out an alliance with pirate Kaido who has ties to Onigashima. The WG losing influence to Kaido was definitely not part of the plan, but as long as the seastone is flowing the status quo works just fine.
:unsure:what if it was actually Shiki plan to invade wano and get materials and make a powerful army

But then Shiki got captured and taken down 24 years ago and 22 years ago, he went hiatus after escaping Impel down

So Orochi didnt have any back up and thought no big play will come back him up... and then Kaido shows up 20 years ago
I gotta be honest here, I don't think Shiki will play any significant role in the manga whatsoever.

Big Mom settled and created Tottoland's food archipelago from scratch. Kaido should be capable of taking over an already established Wano by making a plan with a crafty woman he met in the Rocks crew. Taking an island as powerful and isolated as Wano from the inside makes a lot more sense than dumping countless young Yonko army resources to subdue it by force. By the time Oden was made a criminal and executed, Kaido and his men were already on the inside and just obeying the Shogun.
 
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I

Inspector_Mu

#23
@Lampyris

She wouldn't show Shiki face if she wasn't acquainted to Shiki or met him

If she met Kaido and was partner with Kaido, she would turn her face to Kaido's

I think Kaido invading only came to plaj 2p years ago when he learnt Oden wsd there

The scenario:
He invaded Wano as Jack invaded Zou
"Where is Oden, bring him here
I'm.here to know about raftel, if you dont come out I'll destroy everything "

Kaido isnt the type to plan an invasion 6 years prior.
He attacks one wimp as soon as he hears news
 
#25
In order to transform into a specific person with the mane fruit the user must first touch that specific person. Considering he/she can transform into shiki means that this person was probably in Xebec's crew and got the opportunity to touch Shiki. After Xebec defeat this person decided to follow Kaido, hence the talk of "weapons manufacturing" and "big players will back you".

The beast pirates were already planning this far ahead on how to tackle Wano.
That doesn't make sense though, the old lady meets Orochi around 41 years ago or even more than that.
Kaido was a teenage apprentice in the Rocks at that time so the beast pirates didn't even exist back then.
I can agree with the part that she met Shiki though
 
#27
Has a mythical DF been shown? Maybe their patterns are different from normal ones:kayneshrug:
If Orochi basically got all his power by following this hag's plan, where did Orochi get his Mythical Zoan devil fruit? Like I said before, the fruit she gives Orochi in this chapter is NOT a devil fruit.
looks like the orochi df to me with the "heads" on it. . .
 
#30
Could it be perhaps this witch was also behind the plot that Orochi's grandfather tried to undertake - as in killing all the daimyo long ago in order to be Shogun? I mean, she seems incredibly knowledgeable about it, and even says "everything was going according to plan" :unsure:


And then she goes "are you perhaps my..." before correcting herself, which is kind of fishy, given that Orochi didn't even know who she was. "Stop trying to scare me, granny. Who are you anyway?"


Not to mention:

- The similarity of how Orochi and his grandfather killed their targets: poison,
- The similarity in their motives behind their murders: to be Shogun,

- The fruit that lay on the table before Orochi and the witch, right in the same panel where the witch goes "if you follow my instructions, I'll grant you the power you need to be shogun".

The witch introduces Orochi, saying "he can even make medicine" - Orochi has been slowly poisoning the Shogun ever since he came to the castle.


Bottom right corner; The witch doctor badmouthing Oden & Hag Lady are carrying the same stick thing
I saw few people mentioning this, but I doubt it.
It's a shinto priest; it's one of those old things in Japan, the country of which Wano is modeled from.

It's more likely that there is more than one of those guys in Wano, rather than the witch being singled out like that. Perhaps the witch was putting on a facade, acting as a priest, in front of Orochi. :unsure:
 
#33
Hey there, since this is obviously a very important person for the entire story of Oden/Orochi and therefore the fate of Wano itself, I thought I would make a thread about this old witch.

Here is what we know:

- she suggests that she spent at least several years outside of Wano and just came (back?) to Wano recently
- she has the power of the clone-clone-fruit and seemingly has connections to Shiki (at least touched him once in the past)
- her main goal is to install naive Orochi as the ruler of Wano
- she has access to devil fruits, including the very rarest of them (gave Orochi a mythical Zoan just like that)
- she orchestrates the whole thing like a true puppet master
- right now she has to be dead, since Bon Clay has her devil fruit power

So what do you think is the deal with her? There obviously is way more behind that person than we know right now.

Could she be connected to a third party - maybe Kaido or even the World Government?
 
#35
So what do you think is the deal with her? There obviously is way more behind that person than we know right now.

Could she be connected to a third party - maybe Kaido or even the World Government?
Probably someone who get helped by a third party, my money is on Kaido or Shiki.
The old Witch seems be like beeing in the old crew of the Rocks(Seeing Kaido and Shiki) and the get mission to take over Wano.
Orochi was the perfect one to manipulate, so she choose him and take over his mind, but I think all missions which she get was of the third party, in my opinion Kaido who planned longtime ago already to take over Wano.

The question for me is now who killed the old witch, I can see Kaido did it after he take trust of Orochi who lead Wano, Kaido reach his goal so he didn´t need anymore the witch, or she get take down by Oden.
 
#36
Probably someone who get helped by a third party, my money is on Kaido or Shiki.
The old Witch seems be like beeing in the old crew of the Rocks(Seeing Kaido and Shiki) and the get mission to take over Wano.
Orochi was the perfect one to manipulate, so she choose him and take over his mind, but I think all missions which she get was of the third party, in my opinion Kaido who planned longtime ago already to take over Wano.

The question for me is now who killed the old witch, I can see Kaido did it after he take trust of Orochi who lead Wano, Kaido reach his goal so he didn´t need anymore the witch, or she get take down by Oden.
The last point is interesting: How and why did she actually die? I doubt Oda would kill someone as important as her off simply because she was old.

On the other hand, while Kaido seems the likeliest option right now, do you think it is his style to plot something like that? I don't know man, I somewhat have my doubts here. To me he doesn't seem like a big schemer, more like the guy who simply attacks everything head on, if he wants it.
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Reading all the (really good) replies, I think there are three options:

1) The old witch is indeed Orochi's grandfather or a close relative (would be a bit anticlimatic in my eyes though).

2) She is closely tied to the WG and managed to open up Wano for the WG to acquire the material they longed for (seastone etc.)

3) She is tied to Xebec/Blackbeard.

I actually think option number two would be the most impactful outcome for the entire story. Oda could tie so much plot points into the whole Wano tragedy, if this happens. Even Vegapunk etc.
 
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