@Buusatan94 @Steven @Weeman @Elder Lee Hung @Cross_Marian @Toby D. Dog (well, it might be interesting if you are also a dungeon enthusiast, otherwise you can ignore it)
This post is about whether the Echoes of Wisdom dungeon formula is the future of Zelda dungeons.
Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom introduced a new dungeon formula where you have more than one way to solve a puzzle. However, the dungeon layouts were designed with the idea that you could tackle the puzzles in any order, which removed the sense of structured progression seen in older Zelda titles. Because of this design, mini-bosses became nearly impossible to implement. Why?
- The developers couldn’t predict which puzzle a player would solve first.
- The dungeon structure made it difficult to place a mini-boss in the middle of the dungeon, since traditionally that involves a linear progression and a dedicated boss room.
For example, how would a mini-boss be triggered if you're solving Terminal 2 first? Would it just randomly spawn next to you? Would a locked door open in a random room? And for what purpose? It would break the whole BotW/TotK “solve-any-puzzle-in-any-order” formula, which already made dungeon progression almost non-existent - except for a few exceptions like the Fire and Lightning Temples.
Thankfully, Echoes of Wisdom solved this issue!
Its dungeons have clear structure and progression thanks to the return of dungeon keys. You're usually required to complete certain puzzles in a specific order to proceed. Even better, this formula allows for mini-bosses again! Sure, you still have freedom in how you solve puzzles, but you can’t cheese through everything like before. The layouts are structured and complex enough that you can’t just glide from point A to point C. (Looking at you, Wind Temple - beautifully designed, but terrible from a gameplay standpoint. You can literally paraglide down to the B2 level and activate a terminal. No real exploration or struggle involved. And don’t even get me started on the Water Temple. Four small platforms? That’s not a dungeon - get outta here, Water “Temple”!)
Even the water dungeon in Echoes of Wisdom, which used a similar concept to terminals, handled it better. You had to activate the first two switches before unlocking access to the final two. It felt like a real progression.
So, the big question is: Will Nintendo adopt the Echoes of Wisdom dungeon formula for the next Zelda game, or will they stick with the broken BotW/TotK dungeon design, still obsessed with "FrEeDoM!"? Or, god forbid, will they make it even worse?
They’ve taken two steps forward in overworld design - but five steps back in dungeon design. Thankfully, Echoes of Wisdom brings things back on track.
Here’s my personal take: Ditch the shrines, or at least reduce them significantly - maybe ~50 shrines total - and focus development resources on creating better main dungeons. No joke, I enjoyed some shrines more than the actual temples. The good ones had keys, were large, and featured complex and interesting puzzles. But let’s be honest: most of them were repetitive, with identical aesthetics and predictable challenges. Doing 120/152 of them in both games? F that.
So yeah, that’s my take on the temples and Divine Beasts. And honestly, I liked the Divine Beasts more than TotK’s temples - at least they had unique core mechanics. If I prefer shrines over full dungeons, something’s definitely wrong.
Last but not least:
What are your predictions for the number of dungeons in the next Switch 2 Zelda? Will they keep the shrine count high again?
Last but not least 2.0:
I’m replaying TotK on the Switch 2, and while the framerate is now locked at 60fps (which makes the game way more fluid and enjoyable), revisiting the dungeons has brought back all the disappointment I originally felt. It’s made me appreciate Echoes of Wisdom dungeons even more. I really hope Nintendo follows that direction for future Zelda dungeon design.
