Powers & Abilities The Problem with saying Scabbards do not have Internal Destruction

[ImmaIvanoM]

I want you guys to realize something very dangerous about this claim that the Scabbards do not use Internal destruction to cut Kaido.

Kiku cut Kaido right? Kiku used Ryou right? You say She didn’t use internal destruction but that’s a bad thing.

the reason Luffy uses Internal destruction to hurt Kaido and it works is because internal destruction bypasses Durability.

If you are saying Kiku is hurting Kaido WITHOUT bypassing his Durability then that means Kiku is OVERCOMING Kaido’s durability.

Do you see the problem here? Full force Gear 4 Luffy can’t overcome Kaido’s durability but Kiku can?


That means Kiku has more AP than G4 Luffy. Do you see the problem now? This is what happens when you say Kiku isn’t just bypassing the durability like everyone else.

This claim that Kiku is using barriers to just BREAK THROUGH Kaido’s durability specifically means Kiku’s single sword strike carries immensely more power Anything G4 can can do. Barriers are just that, barriers. They only cause damage because they don’t break. You hit something with hard object, the weaker object breaks. If Kiku can cut through Kaido simply via barriers then that means her barriers are harder than Kaido and so they break through.

So what do you guys think is happening, Is Kiku breaking Kaido’s scales by sheer force or she bypassing his durability like Luffy is?

 

[Desolate Smaug]

Luffy is punching the scabbards and Zoro are cutting. You are comparing apples with oranges.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Luffy is punching the scabbards and Zoro are cutting. You are comparing apples with oranges.

Luffy punches with regular armament and Zoro cuts with regular armament.

Where is this line that Luffy can’t punch with internal destruction and Zoro can’t cut with internal destruction

it’s easy, what do you think Kiku is doing to hurt Kaido? Is Kiku actually breaking Kaido’s durability?

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

Just like @Desolate Smaug said, punching ≠ cutting. Luffy couldn't bypass Kaido because he doesn't have internal destruction haki. The reason why Kiku and the other Scabbards can damage Kaido is because they were enhanced with Oden's will. And Haki = Will.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Just like @Desolate Smaug said, punching ≠ cutting. Luffy couldn't bypass Kaido because he doesn't have internal destruction haki. The reason why Kiku and the other Scabbards can damage Kaido is because they were enhanced with Oden's will. And Haki = Will.

So what is Kiku doing exactly.

Remember Oda explains exactly why Luffy can now hurt Kaido. So what is Kiku doing? Is she just breaking through Kaido’s durability plain and simple?

give me the exact mechanics that make “Oden’s will” hurt Kaido. Because Oda went out of his way to give Luffy an exact explanation as well.

 

[Desolate Smaug]

Luffy punches with regular armament and Zoro cuts with regular armament.

Where is this line that Luffy can’t punch with internal destruction and Zoro can’t cut with internal destruction

it’s easy, what do you think Kiku is doing to hurt Kaido? Is Kiku actually breaking Kaido’s durability?

Simple, swordsmen will use the asspull known as rhythm of all things to part the scales and injure Kaido directly. Okay maybe this isn't clear enough.
All you need to know is Oden busted Kaido from the outside not inside. The scabbards (and Zoro!?) Were doing mini feats of what Oden did. Luffy without internal destruction can disorient Kaido (just like Kid) but it's not enough to deal real damage.

 

[Midnight Delight]

There's a very huge different from stabbing and punching someone
You are more likely to survive a punch to the gut from a gorilla than a Knife Stab from an unathletic Neckbeard

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Simple, swordsmen will use the asspull known as rhythm of all things to part the scales and injure Kaido directly. Okay maybe this isn't clear enough.
All you need to know is Oden busted Kaido from the outside not inside. The scabbards (and Zoro!?) Were doing mini feats of what Oden did. Luffy without internal destruction can disorient Kaido (just like Kid) but it's not enough to deal real damage.

Okay so Kiku is actually breaking Kaido’s durability right? She is actually producing enough AP to just break this man?

remember rhythm is just Ryou so that’s not really answering anything. Unless there’s a fourth level of armament we don’t know, Ryou is just regular armament, barriers and then internal destruction. Two of these options means Kiku is just plain stronger than G4 Luffy.

Post automatically merged: Jan 25, 2021

There's a very huge different from stabbing and punching someone
You are more likely to survive a punch to the gut from a gorilla than a Knife Stab from an unathletic Neckbeard

@Midnight Delight
But Kaido doesn’t believe this. According to Kaido the scabbards should not just be able to hurt him. He’s bragging that their swords can’t do shit until they do shit.

and then he looks for an explanation.

so clearly we are not using real world logic because there’s no real person who can look at someone trying to stab him and say “Your knife can’t even pierce me”

Kaido is extremely sure his durability is insane. So what do you think Kiku did here? Did she just break Kaido’s durability that he thinks is insane? Has he just never come across a swordsman stronger than Kiku in terms of plain AP capable of just breaking through his durability?

 

[CbShadow]

I believe I understand what you're saying and the problem is Oda never explained to us how haki increases a sword or edge weapon cutting power.

Based on how barrier haki works it surrounds the user fist or weapon like a suit of armor. It's not a problem when used defensively because the haki is protecting whatever it's surrounding by stopping anything for getting through it.

When used offensively with an edge weapon, like a sword, unless the barrier takes a shape of the blade and has an edge itself it shouldn't increase the cutting power. It should be like hitting with a club or some other blunt object unless the barrier and the edge of the weapon both hit the target.

 

[Mr. Anderson]

I believe I understand what you're saying and the problem is Oda never explained to us how haki increases a sword or edge weapon cutting power.

Based on how barrier haki works it surrounds the user fist or weapon like a suit of armor. It's not a problem when used defensively because the haki is protecting whatever it's surrounding by stopping anything for getting through it.

When used offensively with an edge weapon, like a sword, unless the barrier takes a shape of the blade and has an edge itself it shouldn't increase the cutting power. It should be like hitting with a club or some other blunt object unless the barrier and the edge of the weapon both hit the target.

Its something that will be explained soon, in Oden's flashback he was explaining the concept but it was cut short

 

[Fn Lucci]

You are confusing the living shit outta yourself. All you need to know is that hitting and cutting aren't the same. I can go really deep if you want with examples of how the question you're asking doesn't work but I kinda hope this is enough

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

I believe I understand what you're saying and the problem is Oda never explained to us how haki increases a sword or edge weapon cutting power.

Based on how barrier haki works it surrounds the user fist or weapon like a suit of armor. It's not a problem when used defensively because the haki is protecting whatever it's surrounding by stopping anything for getting through it.

When used offensively with an edge weapon, like a sword, unless the barrier takes a shape of the blade and has an edge itself it shouldn't increase the cutting power. It should be like hitting with a club or some other blunt object unless the barrier and the edge of the weapon both hit the target.

It doesn’t even have to be that. Let’s assume the barriers somehow get sharp as well. So what though? Does that mean those barriers are harder than Kaido’s skin? Because whether sharp or not, the barriers must have higher durability than Kaido to breakthrough him

Post automatically merged: Jan 25, 2021

You are confusing the living shit outta yourself. All you need to know is that hitting and cutting aren't the same. I can go really deep if you want with examples of how the question you're asking doesn't work but I kinda hope this is enough

@Fn Lucci You want to explain how pressure at a point is different from pressure at a blunt surface? Don’t worry. I know my physics. And that’s why I know that shit doesn’t apply.

Zoro vs Pica. Pica says Zoro’s swords DO NOT MATTER when attacking him barehanded and Zoro agrees saying, yes, he just needs better Armament haki and he can just cut through him nonetheless. The entire exchange was about better Armament.

so what does Kiku do when cutting Kaido? What exactly is happening when her sword makes contact with his skin that no damage from G4 Luffy could penetrate like it was some unbreakable wall.

Just explain what Kiku is doing in that moment

 

[Charlotte Horchata]

If you are saying Kiku is hurting Kaido WITHOUT bypassing his Durability then that means Kiku is OVERCOMING Kaido’s durability.

Everybody can overcome Kaido's durability with advanced armament, it's not a big deal. Luffy can probably hurt him too with a level 2 armament punch, but with internal destruction he multiplies the damage to the point he can allow himself to defeat Kaido and not simply scratch him or make him spit some blood.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Everybody can overcome Kaido's durability with advanced armament, it's not a big deal. Luffy can probably hurt him too with a level 2 armament punch, but with internal destruction he multiplies the damage to the point he can allow himself to defeat Kaido and not simply scratch him or make him spit some blood.

Kaido wasn’t hurt by G4 full on barrage though. He exclaims in chapter 1001 that “He damaged me”. So clearly THIS DID NOT HAPPEN IN KURI.

If you believe regular armament can hurt Kaido, then that’s fine. But clearly Regular armament plus G4 DID NOTHING in KURI. So if Kiku is doing something with just regular armament, she’s automatically stronger than G4 right?

 

[Charlotte Horchata]

Kaido wasn’t hurt by G4 full on barrage though. He exclaims in chapter 1001 that “He damaged me”. So clearly THIS DID NOT HAPPEN IN KURI.

If you believe regular armament can hurt Kaido, then that’s fine. But clearly Regular armament plus G4 DID NOTHING in KURI. So if Kiku is doing something with just regular armament, she’s automatically stronger than G4 right?

I've said that you can hurt him with the first step of advanced armament, which is the level between regular armament and internal destruction. Regular armament can't hurt Kaido, but nobody is saying that it can.

 

[Kromage911]

Luffy is punching the scabbards and Zoro are cutting. You are comparing apples with oranges.

Thought the same thing at first. It's easier to cut thick wood than to destroy it with a strong punch.

 

[Fn Lucci]

@Fn Lucci You want to explain how pressure at a point is different from pressure at a blunt surface? Don’t worry. I know my physics. And that’s why I know that shit doesn’t apply.

Zoro vs Pica. Pica says Zoro’s swords DO NOT MATTER when attacking him barehanded and Zoro agrees saying, yes, he just needs better Armament haki and he can just cut through him nonetheless. The entire exchange was about better Armament.

so what does Kiku do when cutting Kaido? What exactly is happening when her sword makes contact with his skin that no damage from G4 Luffy could penetrate like it was some unbreakable wall.

Just explain what Kiku is doing in that moment

I am worried because you think this is about physics... versus internal narrative. Physical sciences overall are irrelevant to magic which is why lightning can't burn rubber, bones can grow back from drinking milk, and a solid can move at the speed of light with no secondary consequence.

What Pica says, as we know, is fucking wrong and he pays. If we're talking about durability based on Haki, theoretically strong enough Haki can withstand anything, but probably our best example is Luffy using his Haki imbued sandals to block Bellamy's scrub swords. Other statements on that come with Luffy's failure to actually demonstrate it just the same in Fishman Island, or Whitebeard getting penetrated every which way, or Oden dying by gunshot.

We're not talking about breaking Haki with Kaido really, but Kiku goes back to the first point. Law and Kidd specifically mention causing internal damage in their own ways where Killer and Zoro just attack with blades like he's any other target. Blunt attacks just don't have the same properties as cutting, and hitting internally is an exclusive negation. Remember that Usopp even managed to hurt Luffy with a similar concept even when something like the kicking strength of Sanji would have done nothing.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

I've said that you can hurt him with the first step of advanced armament, which is the level between regular armament and internal destruction. Regular armament can't hurt Kaido, but nobody is saying that it can.

You mean barriers? Okay how? Explain what exactly the barriers do to hurt Kaido. I can explain what internal destruction does. So explain how barriers hurt Kaido.

Post automatically merged: Jan 25, 2021

Kiku goes back to the first point though. Law and Kidd specifically mention causing internal damage in their own ways where Killer and Zoro just attack with blades like he's any other target. Blunt attacks just don't have the same properties as cutting, and hitting internally is an exclusive negation. Remember that Usopp even managed to hurt Luffy with a similar concept even when something like the kicking strength of Sanji would have done nothing.

@Fn Lucci
I don’t get how this answers how Kiku is hurting Kaido. Is she or is she not breaking Kaido’s durability?

 

[Charlotte Horchata]

You mean barriers? Okay how? Explain what exactly the barriers do to hurt Kaido. I can explain what internal destruction does. So explain how barriers hurt Kaido.

Barrier haki, although I wouldn't use that word (more like blast), has been linked to the breath of things (which was used to slash through hard things) and it probably (and I say probably because Oda didn't give a detailed explanation) allows the user to either surpass the hardness of the scales (like Zoro surpassed the hardness of Bonez's body) or affect them in a way that they behave more fragile (like vibration through an object). I don't know, ask Oda; what we all know is that Luffy trained blast armament because he felt it was so powerful it would allow him to break Kaido's scales, Hyogoro taught it to him because it's a common power among samurai, but ultimately learned an even more powerful form that is actually hurting him more than any other Supernova can and will eventually allow Luffy to take him down.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Barrier haki, although I wouldn't use that word (more like blast), has been linked to the breath of things (which was used to slash through hard things) and it probably (and I say probably because Oda didn't give a detailed explanation) allows the user to either surpass the hardness of the scales (like Zoro surpassed the hardness of Bonez's body) or affect them in a way that they behave more fragile (like vibration through an object). I don't know, ask Oda; what we all know is that Luffy trained blast armament because he felt it was so powerful it would allow him to break Kaido's scales, Hyogoro taught it to him because it's a common power among samurai, but ultimately learned an even more powerful form that is actually hurting him more than any other Supernova can and will eventually allow Luffy to take him down.

So you actually think Kiku just plain broke through a defense that G4 Luffy found not.

okay. At least you’re honest

everyone else here doesn’t want to admit that technically Kiku can probably cut through any person right now since Kaido is the pinnacle of durability even seen and he ain’t shit apparently