General & Others This is a question for the forum at large

[Fujishiro]

Do you think matchups matter between top tiers? Do you think top tiers have different personalities which leads to different states of mind when they fight? I think they do.

For me top tiers like Shanks and Akainu are more the no nonsense type of top tiers who go in for the kill especially when for example an opportunity presents itself ( WB weakening) or his crew is in danger ( what happened with Kidd).

I feel like top tiers like Mihawk for example wouldnt act bloodlusted from the start and wont take advantage of a top tier showing weakness.

But I digress. I would love some thoughts on the matter, this isnt a thread dissing or bashing any top tiers line of thinking or way of fighting. This has nothing to do with powerlevels but mindset.

I always took Akainus behaviour in Marineford for example as that of the Terminator, he had one job to do and he will do it at all cost. There is no time for testing the enemy, honor or any of that bullshit. I think other Admirals would behave differently from him like Aokiji if Im not using the pirate side,etc.

@Elder Lee Hung Im looking for your thoughts the most because I read your talk on Sentinels profile and I agree with you a lot ,matchups matter. But I also think the top tier fighting in question matters as well as they arent carbon copies of each other and have wildly different personalities which imo is refreshing in a Shounen series.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

Do you think matchups matter between top tiers? Do you think top tiers have different personalities which leads to different states of mind when they fight? I think they do.

Yeah matchups definitely matter, but this ain’t Naruto lol. Oda will never draw a fight where characters on the same level lose because they couldn’t figure out the inscrutable technical mechanics behind another character’s power set. Oda is a much more “emotional” writer in that sense, his fights are typically contests of emotion, mentality, and willpower rather than “can my opponent figure out the secret mechanics of how my powers work?”

The only time I’ve ever seen Oda have it relevant that characters have to figure out each other’s powers were Luffy vs Katakuri which Luffy still ‘won’ (?) in spite of really being completely inferior to Katakuri in most regards, and Zoro vs King where Oda forgot halfway through the fight that he was supposed to have Zoro figure out King’s powers and in the end it just became another contest of Haki and willpower.

So yeah matchups matter, they can dictate how powers interact with each other but ultimately most One Piece fights are determined by willpower and mentality. Unless there’s like some huge power gap present or something.

 

[Ven437]

In Oda’s mind, most top tiers will take each other seriously enough to fight on a scale that allows them to match each other regardless of weaknesses

Akainu should have had the match-up advantage against Aokiji, given Magu > Mera ~ Hie and they still went extreme-diff 10 days later

Ray went on to stalemate Kizaru despite the latter being much faster, fast enough to contend with G4 Snakeman

Roger vs WB went on for 3 days despite WB having superior AP and DC,

Kaido vs BM went on for 3 days despite Kaido being WSC and having superior feats, in the end BM even got her Alliance she was looking for

The difference between fighting a top tier and non-top tier is absolutely mindset. Some top tiers like Kaido and BM like to play with their food, some go straight for the kill like Shanks, some need time to adjust like BB. But ultimately they are all close enough that Oda will portray top tier matches in a way that respects them both (off-screen so that he doesn’t have to draw it)

 

[Dragon777]

In Oda’s mind, most top tiers will take each other seriously enough to fight on a scale that allows them to match each other regardless of weaknesses

Akainu should have had the match-up advantage against Aokiji, given Magu > Mera ~ Hie and they still went extreme-diff 10 days later

Ray went on to stalemate Kizaru despite the latter being much faster, fast enough to contend with G4 Snakeman

Roger vs WB went on for 3 days despite WB having superior AP and DC,

Kaido vs BM went on for 3 days despite Kaido being WSC and having superior feats, in the end BM even got her Alliance she was looking for

The difference between fighting a top tier and non-top tier is absolutely mindset. Some top tiers like Kaido and BM like to play with their food, some go straight for the kill like Shanks, some need time to adjust like BB. But ultimately they are all close enough that Oda will portray top tier matches in a way that respects them both (off-screen so that he doesn’t have to draw it)

Magu and Hie are on the same level though. Mera and snow are one the same level too.

 

[Hamlette]

It can really be summarized in a single sentence. Oda chooses the victor based off how he want's the story/plot/narrative to go, but this applies mostly between two characters of comparable power. Kuzan loses to Akainu because Luffy is fated to face the head of the Navy who killed his brother, Garp loses to Kuzan because he is fated to be captured by the BBP for a purpose yet to be revealed, Luffy, Kid and Law take down the two emperors because they are the main figure heads of the worst/new generation and they must take down the figure heads of the old gen etc etc. Matchups matter yes but what matters more is where Oda wants the story to head, what beats he wants to hit and what moments/scenes he wants to write.

 

[soupongo]

I don't think about anything except getting a billion dollars like my hero Crocodile.
[automerge]1741390326[/automerge]
Irl cross guild soon

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

It can really be summarized in a single sentence. Oda chooses the victor based off how he want's the story/plot/narrative to go, but this applies mostly between two characters of comparable power. Kuzan loses to Akainu because Luffy is fated to face the head of the Navy who killed his brother, Garp loses to Kuzan because he is fated to be captured by the BBP for a purpose yet to be revealed, Luffy, Kid and Law take down the two emperors because they are the main figure heads of the worst/new generation and they must take down the figure heads of the old gen etc etc. Matchups matter yes but what matters more is where Oda wants the story to head, what beats he wants to hit and what moments/scenes he wants to write.

This.

 

[ConquistadoR]

It does matter.

Kaido's ultimate ability gives him a failsafe auto-win against Admiral level people like Aokiji & Ryokugyu. That wouldnt work nearly as smoothly against the other 3 who are on the same level.

Same goes for any BB v. Top Tier matchup too.

 

[Yoho]

Do you think matchups matter between top tiers? Do you think top tiers have different personalities which leads to different states of mind when they fight? I think they do.

For me top tiers like Shanks and Akainu are more the no nonsense type of top tiers who go in for the kill especially when for example an opportunity presents itself ( WB weakening) or his crew is in danger ( what happened with Kidd).

I feel like top tiers like Mihawk for example wouldnt act bloodlusted from the start and wont take advantage of a top tier showing weakness.

But I digress. I would love some thoughts on the matter, this isnt a thread dissing or bashing any top tiers line of thinking or way of fighting. This has nothing to do with powerlevels but mindset.

I always took Akainus behaviour in Marineford for example as that of the Terminator, he had one job to do and he will do it at all cost. There is no time for testing the enemy, honor or any of that bullshit. I think other Admirals would behave differently from him like Aokiji if Im not using the pirate side,etc.

@Elder Lee Hung Im looking for your thoughts the most because I read your talk on Sentinels profile and I agree with you a lot ,matchups matter. But I also think the top tier fighting in question matters as well as they arent carbon copies of each other and have wildly different personalities which imo is refreshing in a Shounen series.

Yes match ups always matter, some people just have a natural advantage over others

Example Luffy vs Enel is a perfect example of match up importance, Enel had Observation he had a logia devil fruit he had all the pieces he needed to squad wipe the strawhats on Skypeia but because of Luffys match up superiority thanks to being Rubber he easily won that fight.

Another example of someone with match up advantage is Perona vs Usopp

Once again Perona had the strawhats beat thanks to her devil fruit powers however because Usopp is always negative her powers didn't work on him giving him that match up advantage

There are many examples of match up importance and how it can change the tides of or affect a fight not just among top tiers

 

[soupongo]

Yes match ups always matter, some people just have a natural advantage over others

Example Luffy vs Enel is a perfect example of match up importance, Enel had Observation he had a logia devil fruit he had all the pieces he needed to squad wipe the strawhats on Skypeia but because of Luffys match up superiority thanks to being Rubber he easily won that fight.

Another example of someone with match up advantage is Perona vs Usopp

Once again Perona had the strawhats beat thanks to her devil fruit powers however because Usopp is always negative her powers didn't work on him giving him that match up advantage

There are many examples of match up importance and how it can change the tides of or affect a fight not just among top tiers

The thing is, this was pretimeskip, and before Haki. I don't think it would be the same now......

 

[Yoho]

The thing is, this was pretimeskip, and before Haki. I don't think it would be the same now......

Mantra is just skypeia haki, even if it wasn't called that, Luffy still has an inate advantage over Enel Pre or Post time skip, I doubt Enel developed his haki to be stronger than Luffys

 

[soupongo]

Mantra is just skypeia haki, even if it wasn't called that, Luffy still has an inate advantage over Enel Pre or Post time skip, I doubt Enel developed his haki to be stronger than Luffys

Well, its Armament Haki which changed the game and nerfed Logias

 

[Yoho]

Well, its Armament Haki which changed the game and nerfed Logias

Yes but majority of the pirates don't have haki and logias have a match up advantage over all of them because they can't hit them

 

[Yoho]

Well, its Armament Haki which changed the game and nerfed Logias

Yes but majority of the pirates don't have haki and logias have a match up advantage over all of them because they can't hit them

 

[Juanpiz]

Well, its Armament Haki which changed the game and nerfed Logias

It gotta be still strong enough tho(tashigi vs Monet for example)
[automerge]1741392819[/automerge]

Well, its Armament Haki which changed the game and nerfed Logias

It gotta be still strong enough tho(tashigi vs Monet for example)
[automerge]1741392854[/automerge]

Well, its Armament Haki which changed the game and nerfed Logias

It gotta be still strong enough tho(tashigi vs Monet for example)

 

[Ven437]

Magu and Hie are on the same level though. Mera and snow are one the same level too.

We saw Mera and Hie cancelled each other out already, in the same arc where Magu > Mera blatantly. Oda calls Magu among the highest class of AP while no such hype exists for Hie

 

[Dragon777]

We saw Mera and Hie cancelled each other out already, in the same arc where Magu > Mera blatantly. Oda calls Magu among the highest class of AP while no such hype exists for Hie

Simply because Fire works Better against ice. Also Aokiji isn't ice, but cold itself.

We know, Oda said It, that Mera Mera Is the inferior counterpart of the Magu Magu as the snow snow Is of Hie Hie.

 

[Welkin]

Blackbeard vs Fruitless Top Tiers is a pretty clear matchup based thing

Prime Garp (maybe even old), Mihawk, Shanks, Prime Rayleigh, Prime Gaban, etc would all molest him

Without Yami he’s essentially a high tier with a strong fruit and good haki

Kaido also has a really good time against opponents that lack super lethal attacks like Current Luffy for example

 

[Ven437]

Simply because Fire works Better against ice. Also Aokiji isn't ice, but cold itself.

We know, Oda said It, that Mera Mera Is the inferior counterpart of the Magu Magu as the snow snow Is of Hie Hie.

Ice, cold, same thing in Aokiji’s context. He freezes things is the point. All of his attacks literally start with “ICE”

So you think snow fruit would be able to stand the same against Magu magu if Aokiji wielded it instead of Hie?

 

[BoaHancocksHusband]

Nah Super Cena John Cena can one shot Loki