General & Others Timeskip and trainning

[RYNO]

Based on growth, i already told you. Crocodile-Enel-Lucci-Moria, VA falls right into this category. Its a natural step up from previous oponents. Instead Oda chose to show them unable to defeat a Pacifista together.

You could have read OP 100 times, if you dont see the inconsistency dont blame me for it

You cant group enel with crocoboy and lucci luffy wasn't in bad shape after the fight he was happily walking eating and partying he most likely got stronger from the fight but not the same as croco/lucci, for moria luffy most likely didn't get any growth from the fight because kuma removed all of luffys pain, injury and exhaustion like he never was in a fight so he didn't naturally heal from the fight so his body never grew stronger from it, maybe your just overestimating how much he grew.

A rookie that defeats all pirates that were dominating East Blue and then defeats a Shichibukai, World Government secret agency(CP-9) etc. There is no such thing as devaluating Admirals if you are okay with all that.

None of those characters had a chance against a Admirals the closest one is maybe crocoboy with his retcon powerlevel so what's your points, oh wow he defeated the greatest pirates in the weakest Sea one at a time great feat and he defeated one of the weakest(moria) Shichibukai with a one time power up with his whole crew, how did this diminish the Admirals but training for 2 years ables luffy to be on the Admirals level out of the bat is not diminishing Admirals.

Monster trio could take Pacifista on their own even that was a extreme diff. Other Supernova could handle themselves.

I dont think so because the fight turned a corner when the Pacifista got internal damage from ussop,robin,nami we don't see any other Shichibukai defeat any of the Pacifista and if we look at law and kid possible win isn't really the bestexample one has a top hax df and one has a magnetic df that is fighting a cyborg.

Unfortunatelly the same remained after Timeskip. A lot of characteres weaker than Admirals were problems to Strawhats. Doflamingo, Commanders...

And without the training luffy most likely couldn't defeat vergo,chinjao,alot of the arena fighters, doffy crew and most likely monster hody.

Hody

I never get the problem people have with the fight luffy was under water it was said in one piece humans fighting ability gets half under water and then added on luffy being a df user so you could say luffy may had only quater of his strength again and was 2x stronger plus that he can come from any direction, its not that bad.

BM army

Come on really you have a problem a quit injured and exhausted luffy who had fought a commander over the night and who just let sanji kicked him bloody having trouble against a yonkos army.

You don't understand that Luffy trainning is based on creatures that gave him a lot of trouble. Having extreme difficult fights is what makes you stronger, improve your haki. Pre-TS Luffy is perfectly fine to beat both Hody and Caesar in order to improve his haki and comes with G4 against Doflamingo(Doflamingo handling G4 better than he did) and still winning.

Yeah I know how luffy get stronger over time but that doesn't matter if the enemy characters defeat him and kill the sh.

Nope it wasn't and would be less downplaying for Sanji having her leg broke in order to hype Vergo.

Yeah it would be a easy fight for vergo and the only way it wouldn't is that you lower the powerlevel of him immensely and everyone else who would defeat the sh easily.

A lot of Supernova didn't had teachers and became as stronger or even more than Strawhats(except for Zoro of course).

And alot of them joined yonko crew and none of them dont do crazy stuff like attacking the shichibukai and GW directly or by the time their first island already pissed off two yonko or getting into the center of a yonkos territory and escaping while defeating two yonko commaders, the closest is kid but hasn't done as much luffy because that's he wants go dangerous places because that's where the best adventures are or he meets character and if he likes them he will help with there problems doesn't matter how big it is ,thats what luffy trained for and not a normal less exiting pirate journey.

Boa sisters had weak haki because they always had Hancock to protect and fight for them. Simple as that.

Not simple as that it has shown it doesn't matter if you have better coa if the person has way more power behind the attack it can get pass the coa and doesn't matter if you have great coo if your slower than the other character you aren't goner be able to dodge their attacks, so from the difference between prets and pots monster trio they don't have the physical abilities to be a threat to most characters in the new world.

You are full of bullshit. Your arguments goes against what Oda wrote in his manga. "Strawhats were too weak" being one-shotted is not being too weak? Yet Luffy won Kaido 2 weeks after that.

I'm not saying the sh are to weak because of a one-shotted they are to weak for the adventures they go on because the difference between monster trio prets and pots ,Like what you said with a god df and had help from alot of people like law and zoro distracting kiado so luffy can recover and understand that kaido coating himself coc ever think why luffy developed so quickly in those two weeks because of the 2 years of training of his haki and the tough fights he went though and doing the same kind and the same kind of training and length of the training wouldn't get same results if he didn't do the 2 years training.

Also we skipping out the other straw hat

• Frankly wouldnt be able to learn how to build a lazer or have the material to build his new body or general franky.
• Robin didn't get taught by koala or sabo or will not have better expertise of her df.
• Chopper wouldn't have the knowledge or time able control his df better.
• Ussop wouldn't have his pop greens.
• Nami wouldn't have a upgraded climate tac or have the knowledge of the weather wizards.
• Brook would be weaker and doesn't have better mastery of his df.

 

[Herrera95]

And without the training luffy most likely couldn't defeat vergo,chinjao,alot of the arena fighters, doffy crew and most likely monster hody

Luffy is defeating everybody through haki bloom which you are ignoring. Luffy had easy fights until Doffy. He didn't got stronger from those.

He is defeating everybody he defeated but at extreme diff. Would be much more satisfying.

And he never fought Vergo.
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• Frankly wouldnt be able to learn how to build a lazer or have the material to build his new body or general franky.
• Robin didn't get taught by koala or sabo or will not have better expertise of her df.
• Chopper wouldn't have the knowledge or time able control his df better.
• Ussop wouldn't have his pop greens.
• Nami wouldn't have a upgraded climate tac or have the knowledge of the weather wizards.
• Brook would be weaker and doesn't have better mastery of his df.

Everything that happened in 2 years could have happened in those 3 days.

Law came with awakening out of nothing from DR to Onigashima. Is much easier for any strawhat to do what they did at timeskip in only 3 days than what Law did.

 

[TEACH D TEACH]

You cant group enel with crocoboy and lucci luffy wasn't in bad shape after the fight he was happily walking eating and partying he most likely got stronger from the fight but not the same as croco/lucci, for moria luffy most likely didn't get any growth from the fight because kuma removed all of luffys pain, injury and exhaustion like he never was in a fight so he didn't naturally heal from the fight so his body never grew stronger from it, maybe your just overestimating how much he grew.

Now you wanna talk how much he grew from each fight which we have no way of knowing, and funny how you use terms like most likely so often but then talk about how other people use headcanon. My point still stands, you just moved the goalposts again but i really dont wanna go back and forth about this since you obviously cant refute it

 

[RYNO]

Luffy is defeating everybody through haki bloom which you are ignoring

And you ignoring that luffy prets doesn't have the physical ability to defeat hody and he still have the drawbacks of his gears and gear 3 is less effective pre-ts that just adds another level difficulty of the fight we arent talking even normal strength luffy we talking about weakened pre ts luffy because his underwater and your telling me a weakened prets luffy is goner defeat hody who was getting up from multiple gear 2 attacks and multiple coated attacks and a red hawk, no it will not be a extreme diff it will be a slaughter oh before you say haki bloom luffy said "his haki isnt strong enough to stop sharp objects" , luffy most likely fall over in exhaustion before putting down hody or dieing from blood loss or getting saved by jinbei yeah great writing having luffy getting saved from defeat in a pre new world fight becausehis too weak.

And he never fought Vergo.

He would if everyone around him got defeated by vergo that would happen because everyone on his side is a weaker versions of themselves,so I'm asking with your rewrite of one piece is every oppents of the straw hats are weaker than they are in the proper story because thats only way i can se this working.

Everything that happened in 2 years could have happened in those 3 days.
Law came with awakening out of nothing from DR to Onigashima. Is much easier for any strawhat to do what they did at timeskip in only 3 days than what Law did.

It's was about a month between DR and Onigashima there is nothing that says law couldn't awaken his df in a month we saw what happen in those three days and they had no time to get their powerups ,robin didn't even meet the RA in the 3 days.

Now you wanna talk how much he grew from each fight which we have no way of knowing, and funny how you use terms like most likely so often but then talk about how other people use headcanon.

I'm not using head cannon I'm comparing two out comes of a fight, im comparing luffy being unconscious or unable to move like after lucci and having him recover for days to him able to walk and having fun at a party, one has high chance of luffy getting quit bit of growth compared to most likely low recovery time so lower or zero(moria) growth, that my reasoning why I think you are overestimated luffys growth

My point still stands,

A point made with no evidence but for made up growth calculation for luffy and powerlevel head cannon of GL start luffy.

 

[TEACH D TEACH]

And you ignoring that luffy prets doesn't have the physical ability to defeat hody and he still have the drawbacks of his gears and gear 3 is less effective pre-ts that just adds another level difficulty of the fight we arent talking even normal strength luffy we talking about weakened pre ts luffy because his underwater and your telling me a weakened prets luffy is goner defeat hody who was getting up from multiple gear 2 attacks and multiple coated attacks and a red hawk, no it will not be a extreme diff it will be a slaughter oh before you say haki bloom luffy said "his haki isnt strong enough to stop sharp objects" , luffy most likely fall over in exhaustion before putting down hody or dieing from blood loss or getting saved by jinbei yeah great writing having luffy getting saved from defeat in a pre new world fight becausehis too weak.

He would if everyone around him got defeated by vergo that would happen because everyone on his side is a weaker versions of themselves,so I'm asking with your rewrite of one piece is every oppents of the straw hats are weaker than they are in the proper story because thats only way i can se this working.

It's was about a month between DR and Onigashima there is nothing that says law couldn't awaken his df in a month we saw what happen in those three days and they had no time to get their powerups ,robin didn't even meet the RA in the 3 days.


I'm not using head cannon I'm comparing two out comes of a fight, im comparing luffy being unconscious or unable to move like after lucci and having him recover for days to him able to walk and having fun at a party, one has high chance of luffy getting quit bit of growth compared to most likely low recovery time so lower or zero(moria) growth, that my reasoning why I think you are overestimated luffys growth

A point made with no evidence but for made up growth calculation for luffy and powerlevel head cannon of GL start luffy.

A point made from the level of his opponents, which you cant refute. Hence you bring up lots of different things that dont matter really. Most likely again, yeah. Youre not using headcanon at all, its all me

 

[Herrera95]

And you ignoring that luffy prets doesn't have the physical ability to defeat hody and he still have the drawbacks of his gears and gear 3 is less effective pre-ts that just adds another level difficulty of the fight we arent talking even normal strength luffy we talking about weakened pre ts luffy because his underwater and your telling me a weakened prets luffy is goner defeat hody who was getting up from multiple gear 2 attacks and multiple coated attacks and a red hawk, no it will not be a extreme diff it will be a slaughter oh before you say haki bloom luffy said "his haki isnt strong enough to stop sharp objects" , luffy most likely fall over in exhaustion before putting down hody or dieing from blood loss or getting saved by jinbei yeah great writing having luffy getting saved from defeat in a pre new world fight becausehis too weak.

Still ignoring he ability to evolve.
Luffy after Marineford already used his gears so much that he could have learned how to use it without drawback to fight Hody. Then all he needs is his haki to bloom. And Hody is getting stronger through out the arc so this is perfect for Luffy to fight weaker versions of Hody and get stronger with him.
You are okay with Luffy getting multiples power ups during Kaido fight but not okay with Luffy evolving during the whole post timeskip?

He would if everyone around him got defeated by vergo that would happen because everyone on his side is a weaker versions of themselves,so I'm asking with your rewrite of one piece is every oppents of the straw hats are weaker than they are in the proper story because thats only way i can se this working.

Law is still beating Vergo by haki bloom too. Simple as that.

It's was about a month between DR and Onigashima there is nothing that says law couldn't awaken his df in a month we saw what happen in those three days and they had no time to get their powerups ,robin didn't even meet the RA in the 3 days.

Law did fight between DR and Onigashima. Where did he learned awakening? Luffy had to be killed to awaken. Look what your are trying to defend and what your are trying to attack. You are defending the impossible and attacking the reality of our lives.

 

[NAMELESS]

I'm opening this thread to talk about the relevancy of One Piece 2 years timeskip and trainning and how it was badly replicated later on.

So back at Water 7, actually before it, we have Strawhats first impossible fight against Aokiji. For being a logia only Zoro could harm Aokiji using haki, not knowing that Luffy wanted a 1v1 fight which he was humiliated by Aokiji.
Later on at Sabaody we also have another Admiral humiliating not only Strawhats but Supernovas too. Even that Zoro knows haki he doesn't know it can be used to hurt Logias. Not that it would be enough to even handle Kizaru.
Then at Impel Down we have Luffy losing to Magellan and later on running away from him. At Marineford he couldn't do shit against Admirals too.
We have the perfect build up for a timeskip based on tranning. Strawhats are too weak compared to top tier fighters. So nice, they trainned. Monster Trio learned haki so they are now able to handle any logia. They're pre-timeskip boosts doesn't have any drawback anymore. Luffy has a new gear, new moves etc. They are trained to be on top tier level and they succeeded.

Except not, WCI and Luffy can't do shit against Commanders and even less a Yonko. Wano and this guy is being one-shotted in his strongest form. Sanji at WCI also had trouble fighting veterans. I mean back at Dressrosa both Zoro and Luffy showed that they are capable to fight an Admiral, none went full all out against Fujitora(Zoro just clashed and Luffy had a longer clash) but they were pretty decent. There is no problem showing that they are not top tiers yet but at least Oda could have used Fujiora to show that.
Then at Wano we have Luffy trainning in Udon for 2 weeks to learn a technique that will improve his attack but not his defense so he will be able to hurt Kaido and gets one-shotted again. Sanji trains because he was almost useless at WCI and also have a power up(aka Raid Suit). Zoro trains because he is always trainning but he gets Enma because Luffy has shiny. I mean Zoro didn't struggled at all during New World except against Fujitora. Where is the build up for his trainning? I would be perfectly fine if he had trouble against Monet, Pica, Hawkins, Killer. But no, Zoro only struggled against Kaido and then King while being nerfed with Enma.

The difference of both build up and result of 2 years timeskip and 2 week timeskip is huge. Oda did great back then and terrible recently.
Some people asking if we will ever had another timeskip. For those people I ask you why? What is the need for a timeskip? They are solid Yonko Crew. Oda already showed that a bunch of bullshit can pull out of his ass during fights. There is no need to have boring trainning chapters or even panels if you gonna pull any shit out of your mind during a fight.

Nailed it.Oda will pull out PU during fights when necessary.There won't be a time skip.I think most straw hats will get buffed by Vegapunk in this arc and the next few arcs.I think Vega will join the crew until they meet Dragon.

 

[Herrera95]

Nailed it.Oda will pull out PU during fights when necessary.There won't be a time skip.I think most straw hats will get buffed by Vegapunk in this arc and the next few arcs.I think Vega will join the crew until they meet Dragon.

What sucks is this. Why do Strawhats even need power ups now? There is no build up for that. But anyway they will have PU and they will still get beat up because they have to be the underdog in every important fight/arc only to have an unexplained power up in that fight too.

 

[NAMELESS]

A secret way to awaken devil fruits,artificial devil fruits,genetics buffs,high tech weapons,kairoseki weapons... maybe some kind of raid suit.There are so many ways Oda can use Vegapunk to improve the weaker straw hats(Ussop,Nami,Chopper,Robin,Brook,Franky).
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What sucks is this. Why do Strawhats even need power ups now? There is no build up for that. But anyway they will have PU and they will still get beat up because they have to be the underdog in every important fight/arc only to have an unexplained power up in that fight too.

Wano showed that straw hats not named Luffy,Zoro,Sanji and Jinbe need some massive help to compete with EOS BlackBeard and WG forces.Ussop and Brook didn't even get to defeat any flying six.
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What sucks is this. Why do Strawhats even need power ups now? There is no build up for that. But anyway they will have PU and they will still get beat up because they have to be the underdog in every important fight/arc only to have an unexplained power up in that fight too.

Now that they are a Yonko crew i don't think they will be underdogs anymore.Just look at how Law's crew is doing vs BB pirates.

 

[Herrera95]

Wano showed that straw hats not named Luffy,Zoro,Sanji and Jinbe need some massive help to compete with EOS BlackBeard and WG forces.Ussop and Brook didn't even get to defeat any flying six.

Wano showed anything but that. You can say that current chapter showing BB crew full of DF can imply that but not Wano.

Usopp handled Ulti's headbutt just fine. Nami managed to defeat her. Robin soloed Black Maria, Franky too against Sasaki.

Usopp, Brook and Chopper didn't had their all out battle but besides Usopp the other 2 for sure are capable of doing it always considering in fight power ups.