Toaru verse vs Jojo verse everyone in the verse
- Thread starter Nightlord101
- Start date
Starting with Othinus, destroying and remaking the universe instantly, complete control over time, space, fate, reality, etc. Later on we get Magic Gods even stronger than her that need to reside outside time and space since they’d destroy reality with just their presence and they still control fate and causality just by existing and especially when they fight.
Series got so broken for the author after them, they had to dial down with the following villains that are at a comparable level to the Magic Gods but their powers being more restrictive or conditional.
Series got so broken for the author after them, they had to dial down with the following villains that are at a comparable level to the Magic Gods but their powers being more restrictive or conditional.
I see
Of the top of my head the two most broken (manga) stands are Gold Experience Requiem, Made in Heaven and Wonder of U
Made in Heaven basically affects time across the whole universe, accelerating indefinitely until a new universe is born
Wonder of U attacks anyone that even thinks or has the notion to attack or even approach the user. And the attacks are ig random events that could be explained through causality.
There are some game and novel stands that are crazier, but Torau sweeps from what you wrote
Ngl feels like a spite thread lol
Of the top of my head the two most broken (manga) stands are Gold Experience Requiem, Made in Heaven and Wonder of U
Made in Heaven basically affects time across the whole universe, accelerating indefinitely until a new universe is born
Wonder of U attacks anyone that even thinks or has the notion to attack or even approach the user. And the attacks are ig random events that could be explained through causality.
There are some game and novel stands that are crazier, but Torau sweeps from what you wrote
Ngl feels like a spite thread lol
I know all those expect Wonder of U personally since I haven’t read JoJolion yet but will soon now that it’s finally completed.
Coincidentally, one of Araki’s reasons for doing a soft reboot with JoJo by exploring an alternate continuity starting with Part 7 is because he felt he hit the limits of his creativity in Stone Ocean with how far he could have Stand powers go and wanted to dial things back.
Taking in all works, most OP Stand user is a tie between Heaven Ascension DIO with The World Over Heaven from the Eyes of Heaven game or Kars from Mars with all his Ultimate Stand replicas from the novel Jorge Joestar.
Personally, I think DIO’s stronger but there’s debates for both.
Coincidentally, one of Araki’s reasons for doing a soft reboot with JoJo by exploring an alternate continuity starting with Part 7 is because he felt he hit the limits of his creativity in Stone Ocean with how far he could have Stand powers go and wanted to dial things back.
Taking in all works, most OP Stand user is a tie between Heaven Ascension DIO with The World Over Heaven from the Eyes of Heaven game or Kars from Mars with all his Ultimate Stand replicas from the novel Jorge Joestar.
Personally, I think DIO’s stronger but there’s debates for both.
Decided to rewrite the above post since it was a mess that I wanted to make readable and there was an extra quote I wanted to add too. This site has some issues with putting texts into quotes.
GER does nothing. Plenty of characters that can either counter it or would be unaffected. Throw in Heaven DIO and Novel Kars and JoJo still gets squashed by Othinus alone
There’s characters below Magic Gods like St. Germain unaffected by cause and effect being altered even when it rewrites all of reality.
"Before wondering about my credibility, you wondered how I knew about those hundreds of billions of hells you experienced, didn't you? Well, I understand. I am neither a magician nor a Magic God. But don't you dare say that the category of St. Germain is somehow inferior to that of the Magic God. No matter how perfect and happy a world the Magic Gods try to create, I will always occur at some point, regardless of the possibilities or environment involved. I am a being that transcends causality and the phases."
Magic Gods control the unavoidable rails of fate
1) “Magic God Othinus could control everything. Without exaggeration, she controlled the world itself. If she wanted to, she could have galaxies collide to kill Kamijou Touma. Or she could break the bonds between the particles making up his body and cause his very existence to disperse. If she was the slightest bit dissatisfied with something, she could turn back time, re-lay the rails of fate that led to the future, and create the exact result she wanted.”
2) “It isn’t something we could simply ignore,” said the High Priest. “Kamijou Touma, do you believe in destiny?”
“Destiny?”
“…”
“There is such a thing as unavoidable destiny. There are powerful rails that cannot be overcome by an individual’s decisions. But even that is ultimately nothing more than the result of an unseen clash between the opinions of Magic Gods. Of course, we have no intention of harming any specific individual. In fact, the individuals clinging to this puny planet never enter our field of vision. Still, our actions are constantly affecting the outside world and make great changes in the world. It can be quite a problem.”
Talk of fortune and misfortune reminded Kamijou of the Saints in addition to himself.
One of them was so constantly dealt a lucky hand that she feared those around her would always be dealt an unlucky hand.
“That is the same,” readily stated the High Priest. “It is true Saints fall on the fortunate side of things, but they had no say in being born a Saint. That means there were some larger rails in place there. The very fact that they receive that fortune as Saints was determined by that unshakeable destiny.”
At that point, the mummy laughed dryly.
“Although, if we’re talking about destiny, then you would be the sole exception. Thanks to your Imagine Breaker, even the vague power of us Magic Gods is uniformly leveled out. That keeps any large waves away from you alone and keeps you in constant misfortune.”
3) “The gathering of Magic Gods known as Gremlin could also be called the keyboard connected to the world and to destiny. Simply having someone push or pull at it is enough to distort the current age. It isn’t an issue of any individual. We are all bringing about change. And we do so whether we continue forward or turn back. No, even doing nothing affects it.”
Later on we find out all of Magic in Toaru is as a result of messing with the laws of cause and effect on the world. The Magic Gods are just the individuals that do so on a truly cosmic scale.
1) She made it sound like this would not have happened if she had not made them, but you must not forget. Magic is a technique of distorting the world’s causality for your own purposes. It does not only produce the obvious phenomena right in front of you. It is a dangerous technique that will follow an unexpected path to later cause an unexpected change without the magic user even knowing about it. Aleister Crowley had loathed that and called it sparks and spray.
2) Aleister roared, but it was too slow.
At this rate, she would be broken.
Just then, Baby Lilith moved her small hand to draw a circle in the air.
But that made no sense.
Given the comparative speeds, it was too late to move your hand after Magick: Flaming_Sword had already been released. Nevertheless, it worked.
Consistency fell apart. Causality was ignored.
In other words, it was a miracle.
With a sound like a saw’s teeth bending, the tip of the Magick: Flaming_Sword was twisted off course. It was caught by the shield-like circle Lilith had drawn, it spun around, and it was trapped in a never-ending circuit.
GER does nothing. Plenty of characters that can either counter it or would be unaffected. Throw in Heaven DIO and Novel Kars and JoJo still gets squashed by Othinus alone
There’s characters below Magic Gods like St. Germain unaffected by cause and effect being altered even when it rewrites all of reality.
"Before wondering about my credibility, you wondered how I knew about those hundreds of billions of hells you experienced, didn't you? Well, I understand. I am neither a magician nor a Magic God. But don't you dare say that the category of St. Germain is somehow inferior to that of the Magic God. No matter how perfect and happy a world the Magic Gods try to create, I will always occur at some point, regardless of the possibilities or environment involved. I am a being that transcends causality and the phases."
Magic Gods control the unavoidable rails of fate
1) “Magic God Othinus could control everything. Without exaggeration, she controlled the world itself. If she wanted to, she could have galaxies collide to kill Kamijou Touma. Or she could break the bonds between the particles making up his body and cause his very existence to disperse. If she was the slightest bit dissatisfied with something, she could turn back time, re-lay the rails of fate that led to the future, and create the exact result she wanted.”
2) “It isn’t something we could simply ignore,” said the High Priest. “Kamijou Touma, do you believe in destiny?”
“Destiny?”
“…”
“There is such a thing as unavoidable destiny. There are powerful rails that cannot be overcome by an individual’s decisions. But even that is ultimately nothing more than the result of an unseen clash between the opinions of Magic Gods. Of course, we have no intention of harming any specific individual. In fact, the individuals clinging to this puny planet never enter our field of vision. Still, our actions are constantly affecting the outside world and make great changes in the world. It can be quite a problem.”
Talk of fortune and misfortune reminded Kamijou of the Saints in addition to himself.
One of them was so constantly dealt a lucky hand that she feared those around her would always be dealt an unlucky hand.
“That is the same,” readily stated the High Priest. “It is true Saints fall on the fortunate side of things, but they had no say in being born a Saint. That means there were some larger rails in place there. The very fact that they receive that fortune as Saints was determined by that unshakeable destiny.”
At that point, the mummy laughed dryly.
“Although, if we’re talking about destiny, then you would be the sole exception. Thanks to your Imagine Breaker, even the vague power of us Magic Gods is uniformly leveled out. That keeps any large waves away from you alone and keeps you in constant misfortune.”
3) “The gathering of Magic Gods known as Gremlin could also be called the keyboard connected to the world and to destiny. Simply having someone push or pull at it is enough to distort the current age. It isn’t an issue of any individual. We are all bringing about change. And we do so whether we continue forward or turn back. No, even doing nothing affects it.”
Later on we find out all of Magic in Toaru is as a result of messing with the laws of cause and effect on the world. The Magic Gods are just the individuals that do so on a truly cosmic scale.
1) She made it sound like this would not have happened if she had not made them, but you must not forget. Magic is a technique of distorting the world’s causality for your own purposes. It does not only produce the obvious phenomena right in front of you. It is a dangerous technique that will follow an unexpected path to later cause an unexpected change without the magic user even knowing about it. Aleister Crowley had loathed that and called it sparks and spray.
2) Aleister roared, but it was too slow.
At this rate, she would be broken.
Just then, Baby Lilith moved her small hand to draw a circle in the air.
But that made no sense.
Given the comparative speeds, it was too late to move your hand after Magick: Flaming_Sword had already been released. Nevertheless, it worked.
Consistency fell apart. Causality was ignored.
In other words, it was a miracle.
With a sound like a saw’s teeth bending, the tip of the Magick: Flaming_Sword was twisted off course. It was caught by the shield-like circle Lilith had drawn, it spun around, and it was trapped in a never-ending circuit.
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