Top 10 Strategists

N

NeutralWatcher

#1
#1
IMO Riboku is the best strategist followed by Ousen and then Shoheikun. The gap between Ousen and Shoheikun is very little imo. Renpa and Ouki are next in line with that dude from Chu Shun Shin Kun is not too far behind them. Yo Tan Wa, Mouten are probably close behind them.
 
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Shanks

Shanks

‎
#3
#3
Greatest strategist :

Ousen and Riboku, only generals who uses strategies along with insticts and unorthodox methods. Than -

GakuKi/GekiShin/KoShou (boss of strategists)
Renpa (Great strategist with little instinctual capabilities)
Ouki (Great strategist with little instinctual capabilities)
RSJ/SHK (Great strategist)
Karin/Kanki/Rinou (Great strategist along with unorthodox methods)
MouTen (Great strategist)
OuHon (Great strategist)
Genpo (Great strategist)
KyouEn (Great strategist)


Now time to reveal there boss and nightmare, Epitome of Insticts :

Duke Hyou. If it wasn't for Houken than he would be dead at coalition. Lol
Post automatically merged:

Patryipe said:
LOL
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Make your top 5 or top 10 bro. You too @Admiral Lee Hung @Owl Ki
 
Lee Ba Shou

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
‎
#6
#6
By strategists do you just mean Strategic Generals? Because strategic generals and strategists aren't quite the same thing, but I guess I won't over complicate it lol.

I'm not going to include Kou En or Kou Shou because we know so little of either, though if I did put them somewhere based on their hype, they'd probably be around Gokei/Shouheikun level, but as strategists they're probably going to be weaker than Ousen.

So this is a really tough list to make because the gaps in between these characters can be astronomically small but..My top ten would be:

1. Riboku

Consistenly shown to be the most brilliant mind in Kingdom imo, the one who defeated Ouki and Gekishin in a manner described by Renpa as "overwhelming," and the main mind behind the formation and strategy of the Coalition Army which came really close to destroying the state of Qin and would've succeeded if not for the Masjesty of Ei Sei Sama. He's also really the only reason why Zhao was ever a relevant threat at this point in the Manga.

2. Ousen

Shown to be an extremely brilliant strategist at multiple points, the two biggest examples imo being when Karin's strategic brilliance was highlighted as she almost took Kankoku Pass when it was revealed that Ousen saw through this plan the entire time, and when Riboku and Shouheikun both took a year to plan the defence/attack of Zhao, and then Ousen comes in a comes up with a viable strategy on the fly in like, 12 hours. Also stated to have strategic acumen on the level of the 6 GG by multiple reliable sources including Ouki and Koushou.

3. Shouheikun

The Chief baby, his brilliance has been highlighted many times but the best example of this would be the fact that he was the main mind behind forming the Qin's defense during the Coalition War, which resulted in the Qin repelling the Coalition Army in the face of overwhelming Odds. Shouheikun has also shown that he can actually pull off high level formations in battle, and he is so skilled with this that he taught Moubu how to use an extremely high level strategy successfully in an extremely short period of time.

4. Gokei

A really overlooked strategist, the way that this dude systematically exterminated a 90,000 man Qin army in an afternoon was nothing short of utterly shocking. He was also described as being a "bastion of military knowledge" by Ouki himself and was hyped as being on the level of the 6GG of Qin 20 years ago, and he's had all that time since then to refine his strategic ability similar to Ousen. This is the main reason I'm ranking him above the next 3:

5. Genpou

I hesitated to rank him this high at first because he really hasn't shown much, but he has two main things going for him. 1) he is the guy who taught Renpa tactics, and Renpa is actually a tactical madman in terms of how skilled he is, and 2) he was stated by Renpa to be capable of leading the entire Zhao military, which is a hype statement that by itself puts him in the same tier as people like Riboku and Shouheikun. He never showed much but yeah, I think this guy's strategic ability probably outclassed some of the people below him:

6. Mouten

I think this is a good place to put him, but tbh he could be higher than this and he just has yet to prove it. A few things going for him:
1) He was stated by Mougou to be the most talented man that the Mou family has ever produced, and that includes Moubu who is on the level of the Qin 6GG or maybe even above in certain aspects.
2) Shouheikun himself said that he doesn't understand the full scope of Mouten's talent. That is an other-worldy hype statement right there lol.
3) His subordinates are fully convinced that he is already as talented as the 6GG of Qin, I understand some might question a statement like this and that's understandable, but to me this is enough to assume that he's on the same level as them when added with the other stuff.
He's got some other hype going for him too but I feel like this is enough to justify his placement here. The only reason he isn't higher is because he's young and imo hasn't proven himself to be above the others yet.

7. Karin

I've already talked about her a bit but, she was almost promoted to Second-in-Command of the Chu military behind Kou En, and she basically hijacked the Coalition War when she realized that the Coalition Army was about to use an unviable strategy which even caught Riboku himself off guard. Even though she ultimately gets stopped by Ousen, her plan almost resulted in a deathblow to the state of Qin. These two things are enough for me to confidently place her up in the top ten of this list.

8. Rinshoujou

So I actually don't like putting him this low, I actually think the Rinshoujou Army may have been the single strongest Army of any standard-state army we've seen, even rivaling Yo Tan Wa's army overall when you consider that Rinshoujou had ten Generals under him comparable to Gyou'Un and Chou Garyuu, but I feel like he's got the least hype around him in comparison to the people above him. He was just a member of the Three Great Heavens (if that can even be considered a small feat) while the people above him already have a level of comparable hype and then some, imo. The main reason I'm putting him this low in the top ten is that he died young and for that reason never had a chance to reach the level of the likes of Go Kei or Shouheikun. Though I think he would have if he lived longer and gained more experience.

9. Go Homei

He bores me so I won't elaborate too much, but he was trained by Rei Ou of the Fire Dragons and is now poised to be the main mind behind the Wei military just like his father was. Some more training/experience and he'll be fit to be placed higher, probably.

10. Ka Ryo Ten

I probably have to explain this one the least. Not on the level of any of the ones above her, but still a world-class strategist.

I hope you guys like my list, again it's hard to determine where a character stops being a "strategist" in the traditional sense and just becomes a strategic type General lol, so I figured I do a list more along the lines of "top ten strategic minds" rather than "top ten literal strategists lol."

Thoughts? @Owl Ki @Shanks @Edward Teach etc
 
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N

NeutralWatcher

#7
#7
Admiral Lee Hung said:
By strategists do you just mean Strategic Generals? Because strategic generals and strategists aren't quite the same thing, but I guess I won't over complicate it lol.

I'm not going to include Kou En or Kou Shou because we know so little of either, though if I did put them somewhere based on their hype, they'd probably be around Gokei/Shouheikun level, but as strategists they're probably going to be weaker than Ousen.

So this is a really tough list to make because the gaps in between these characters can be astronomically small but..My top ten would be:

1. Riboku

Consistenly shown to be the most brilliant mind in Kingdom imo, the one who defeated Ouki and Gekishin in a manner described by Renpa as "overwhelming," and the main mind behind the formation and strategy of the Coalition Army which came really close to destroying the state of Qin and would've succeeded if not for the Masjesty of Ei Sei Sama. He's also really the only reason why Zhao was ever a relevant threat at this point in the Manga.

2. Ousen

Shown to be an extremely brilliant strategist at multiple points, the two biggest examples imo being when Karin's strategic brilliance was highlighted as she almost took Kankoku Pass when it was revealed that Ousen saw through this plan the entire time, and when Riboku and Shouheikun both took a year to plan the defence/attack of Zhao, and then Ousen comes in a comes up with a viable strategy on the fly in like, 12 hours. Also stated to have strategic acumen on the level of the 6 GG by multiple reliable sources including Ouki and Koushou.

3. Shouheikun

The Chief baby, his brilliance has been highlighted many times but the best example of this would be the fact that he was the main mind behind forming the Qin's defense during the Coalition War, which resulted in the Qin repelling the Coalition Army in the face of overwhelming Odds. Shouheikun has also shown that he can actually pull off high level formations in battle, and he is so skilled with this that he taught Moubu how to use an extremely high level strategy successfully in an extremely short period of time.

4. Gokei

A really overlooked strategist, the way that this dude systematically exterminated a 90,000 man Qin army in an afternoon was nothing short of utterly shocking. He was also described as being a "bastion of military knowledge" by Ouki himself and was hyped as being on the level of the 6GG of Qin 20 years ago, and he's had all that time since then to refine his strategic ability similar to Ousen. This is the main reason I'm ranking him above the next 3:

5. Genpo

I hesitated to rank him this high at first because he really hasn't shown much, but he has two main things going for him. 1) he is the guy who taught Renpa tactics, and Renpa is actually a tactical madman in terms of how skilled he is, and 2) he was stated by Renpa to be capable of leading the entire Zhao military, which is a hype statement that by itself puts him in the same tier as people like Riboku and Shouheikun. He never showed much but yeah, I think this guy's strategic ability probably outclassed some of the people below him:

6. Mouten

I think this is a good place to put him, but tbh he could be higher than this and he just has yet to prove it. A few things going for him:
1) He was stated by Mougou to be the most talented man that the Mou family has ever produced, and that includes Moubu who is on the level of the Qin 6GG or maybe even above in certain aspects.
2) Shouheikun himself said that he doesn't understand the full scope of Mouten's talent. That is an other-worldy hype statement right there lol.
3) His subordinates are fully convinced that he is already as talented as the 6GG of Qin, I understand some might question a statement like this and that's understandable, but to me this is enough to assume that he's on the same level as them when added with the other stuff.
He's got some other hype going for him too but I feel like this is enough to justify his placement here. The only reason he isn't higher is because he's young and imo hasn't proven himself to be above the others yet.

7. Karin

I've already talked about her a bit but, she was almost promoted to Second-in-Command of the Chu military behind Kou En, and she basically hijacked the Coalition War when she realized that the Coalition Army was about to use an unviable strategy which even caught Riboku himself off guard. Even though she ultimately gets stopped by Ousen, her plan almost resulted in a deathblow to the state of Qin. These two things are enough for me to confidently place her up in the top ten of this list.

8. Rinshoujou

So I actually don't like putting him this low, I actually think the Rinshoujou Army may have been the single strongest Army of any standard-state army we've seen, even rivaling Yo Tan Wa's army overall when you consider that Rinshoujou had ten Generals under him comparable to Gyou'Un and Chou Garyuu, but I feel like he's got the least hype around him in comparison to the people above him. He was just a member of the Three Great Heavens (if that can even be considered a small feat) while the people above him already have a level of comparable hype and then some, imo. The main reason I'm putting him this low in the top ten is that he died young and for that reason never had a chance to reach the level of the likes of Go Kei or Shouheikun. Though I think he would have if he lived longer and gained more experience.

9. Go Homei

He bores me so I won't elaborate too much, but he was trained by Rei Ou of the Fire Dragons and is now poised to be the main mind behind the Wei military just like his father was. Some more training/experience and he'll be fit to be placed higher, probably.

10. Ka Ryo Ten

I probably have to explain this one the least. Not on the level of any of the ones above her, but still a world-class strategist.

I hope you guys like my list, again it's hard to determine where a character stops being a "strategist" in the traditional sense and just becomes a strategic type General lol, so I figured I do a list more along the lines of "top ten strategic minds" rather than "top ten literal strategists lol."

Thoughts? @Owl Ki @Shanks @Edward Teach etc
Click to expand...
Yeah I mean strategic generals.

Ousen strategy is suitable for battlefield while Sho Hei Kun is more suited for politic imo.

Imo Karyoten is not good enough to be top 10. Her strategy is successful because Hi Shin unit is full of monsters.
 
Lee Ba Shou

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
‎
#8
#8
NeutralWatcher said:
Ousen strategy is suitable for battlefield while Sho Hei Kun is more suited for politic imo.
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It depends tbh, the two battlefield formations that we can attribute to the Chief, the Echelon and the Hourai, are like, on the same level as any of the strongest formations we’ve ever seen.

I think Ousen’s tactics might end up being superior but they are neck and neck on the battlefield imo.
 
Shanks

Shanks

‎
#11
#11
Patryipe said:
RBK/Ousen/Karin/GHM/SHK (in no particular order)
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If it is top 5 alive than what about Renpa and Kanki in comparison to Karin or GHM???

@Admiral Lee Hung want to ask about few points, first if Riboku and OuSen has to be ranked than why Riboku being 1st ?

2nd, Renpa said Genpo to be able to lead whole zhao military or i think he said Genpo was previously in charge of zhao military !!!!

3rd, what are your thoughts on Renpa, GekiShin and Ouki in comparison to Gokei, KayroTen and GHM.

I believe Gokei really was very underrated when he alone kept wei safe from the era of 6gg or 3gh and when in most of that time Wei 6 fire dragons were locked or few dead. Lol but really Gokei was definitely amazing.
 
Lee Ba Shou

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
‎
#12
#12
@Shanks

1. Riboku has just done more lol. He is basically Zhao’s Shouheikun and their Ousen because he is the both the one leading their overall defensive and offensive strategy WHILE the Zhao king fights him on certain things that he wants to do, while Ousen has only shown acumen for winning individual battles (though I’m sure he can form grand strategies too)

2. He said Genpou could lead the entire Zhao military lol. And Genpou was the one who taught Renpa tactics and Renpa has pulled off some insane tactical feats lol.

3. Ouki, Renpa, and Gekishin are tricky to place for me. I put them below Homei just because he spends 100% of his time on strategy but due to Ouki and Renpa’s experience, I don’t think there’s much Homei could do to them that they couldn’t see through or counter lol. Their abilities as strategists are actually very strong.

Gokei though, that dude is a strategic god tier and he is superior to Ouki and Renpa just as far as his tactics go. I’m not sure if we’ll see Homei reach his level by EOS or not. Lol
 
Patryipe

Patryipe

‎
#13
#13
Shanks said:
If it is top 5 alive than what about Renpa and Kanki in comparison to Karin or GHM???

@Admiral Lee Hung want to ask about few points, first if Riboku and OuSen has to be ranked than why Riboku being 1st ?

2nd, Renpa said Genpo to be able to lead whole zhao military or i think he said Genpo was previously in charge of zhao military !!!!

3rd, what are your thoughts on Renpa, GekiShin and Ouki in comparison to Gokei, KayroTen and GHM.

I believe Gokei really was very underrated when he alone kept wei safe from the era of 6gg or 3gh and when in most of that time Wei 6 fire dragons were locked or few dead. Lol but really Gokei was definitely amazing.
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I consider both battlefield tactics and state level strategy (i.e., Chief of Military affairs) for the ranking.

Renpa I'm not sure honestly. I'm not sure how good he'd do as military chief.

Kanki is a no though imho. Kanki is the best unorthodox strategist in manga, perfect for special situations... But I don't think he'd be able to be chief of military...
 
Lee Ba Shou

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
‎
#16
#16
Admiral Lee Hung said:
By strategists do you just mean Strategic Generals? Because strategic generals and strategists aren't quite the same thing, but I guess I won't over complicate it lol.

I'm not going to include Kou En or Kou Shou because we know so little of either, though if I did put them somewhere based on their hype, they'd probably be around Gokei/Shouheikun level, but as strategists they're probably going to be weaker than Ousen.

So this is a really tough list to make because the gaps in between these characters can be astronomically small but..My top ten would be:

1. Riboku

Consistenly shown to be the most brilliant mind in Kingdom imo, the one who defeated Ouki and Gekishin in a manner described by Renpa as "overwhelming," and the main mind behind the formation and strategy of the Coalition Army which came really close to destroying the state of Qin and would've succeeded if not for the Masjesty of Ei Sei Sama. He's also really the only reason why Zhao was ever a relevant threat at this point in the Manga.

2. Ousen

Shown to be an extremely brilliant strategist at multiple points, the two biggest examples imo being when Karin's strategic brilliance was highlighted as she almost took Kankoku Pass when it was revealed that Ousen saw through this plan the entire time, and when Riboku and Shouheikun both took a year to plan the defence/attack of Zhao, and then Ousen comes in a comes up with a viable strategy on the fly in like, 12 hours. Also stated to have strategic acumen on the level of the 6 GG by multiple reliable sources including Ouki and Koushou.

3. Shouheikun

The Chief baby, his brilliance has been highlighted many times but the best example of this would be the fact that he was the main mind behind forming the Qin's defense during the Coalition War, which resulted in the Qin repelling the Coalition Army in the face of overwhelming Odds. Shouheikun has also shown that he can actually pull off high level formations in battle, and he is so skilled with this that he taught Moubu how to use an extremely high level strategy successfully in an extremely short period of time.

4. Gokei

A really overlooked strategist, the way that this dude systematically exterminated a 90,000 man Qin army in an afternoon was nothing short of utterly shocking. He was also described as being a "bastion of military knowledge" by Ouki himself and was hyped as being on the level of the 6GG of Qin 20 years ago, and he's had all that time since then to refine his strategic ability similar to Ousen. This is the main reason I'm ranking him above the next 3:

5. Genpou

I hesitated to rank him this high at first because he really hasn't shown much, but he has two main things going for him. 1) he is the guy who taught Renpa tactics, and Renpa is actually a tactical madman in terms of how skilled he is, and 2) he was stated by Renpa to be capable of leading the entire Zhao military, which is a hype statement that by itself puts him in the same tier as people like Riboku and Shouheikun. He never showed much but yeah, I think this guy's strategic ability probably outclassed some of the people below him:

6. Mouten

I think this is a good place to put him, but tbh he could be higher than this and he just has yet to prove it. A few things going for him:
1) He was stated by Mougou to be the most talented man that the Mou family has ever produced, and that includes Moubu who is on the level of the Qin 6GG or maybe even above in certain aspects.
2) Shouheikun himself said that he doesn't understand the full scope of Mouten's talent. That is an other-worldy hype statement right there lol.
3) His subordinates are fully convinced that he is already as talented as the 6GG of Qin, I understand some might question a statement like this and that's understandable, but to me this is enough to assume that he's on the same level as them when added with the other stuff.
He's got some other hype going for him too but I feel like this is enough to justify his placement here. The only reason he isn't higher is because he's young and imo hasn't proven himself to be above the others yet.

7. Karin

I've already talked about her a bit but, she was almost promoted to Second-in-Command of the Chu military behind Kou En, and she basically hijacked the Coalition War when she realized that the Coalition Army was about to use an unviable strategy which even caught Riboku himself off guard. Even though she ultimately gets stopped by Ousen, her plan almost resulted in a deathblow to the state of Qin. These two things are enough for me to confidently place her up in the top ten of this list.

8. Rinshoujou

So I actually don't like putting him this low, I actually think the Rinshoujou Army may have been the single strongest Army of any standard-state army we've seen, even rivaling Yo Tan Wa's army overall when you consider that Rinshoujou had ten Generals under him comparable to Gyou'Un and Chou Garyuu, but I feel like he's got the least hype around him in comparison to the people above him. He was just a member of the Three Great Heavens (if that can even be considered a small feat) while the people above him already have a level of comparable hype and then some, imo. The main reason I'm putting him this low in the top ten is that he died young and for that reason never had a chance to reach the level of the likes of Go Kei or Shouheikun. Though I think he would have if he lived longer and gained more experience.

9. Go Homei

He bores me so I won't elaborate too much, but he was trained by Rei Ou of the Fire Dragons and is now poised to be the main mind behind the Wei military just like his father was. Some more training/experience and he'll be fit to be placed higher, probably.

10. Ka Ryo Ten

I probably have to explain this one the least. Not on the level of any of the ones above her, but still a world-class strategist.

I hope you guys like my list, again it's hard to determine where a character stops being a "strategist" in the traditional sense and just becomes a strategic type General lol, so I figured I do a list more along the lines of "top ten strategic minds" rather than "top ten literal strategists lol."

Thoughts? @Owl Ki @Shanks @Edward Teach etc
Click to expand...
After much reflection, Rinshoujou is ranked far too low lol. I’d bump him up to #4 or #5
 
Yo Tan Wa

Yo Tan Wa

‎
#19
#19
I would only name Top 3 in no order for nw. Since cases can be made for each of em to be best.
Riboku
Ousen
Shou Hei Kun

Honorable mentions, Ren Pa, Ouki, Ka Rin, Go hou mi, Go Kei, Yo Tan Wa, Kanki.

Mou ten and also Ou Hon will also reach Top 3 lvl in their Prime. But they are young nw. Karyo Ten imo will only be closely behind, not their equal.

I didn't consider previous GGs who died in the past.
 
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Yo Tan Wa

Yo Tan Wa

‎
#20
#20
MarineHQ62 said:
The Manga is constantly reminding me that Riboku is indeed the Nr.1 strategical general in Kingdom, but in majority of his campaigns he was at a huge advantage, got outplayed several times, and is just not the best adapting to dire situations, imho.

I rate Ousen as the best.
Click to expand...
Hara can't do him best when he always at the loosing side, he's just bound to loose given he is Enemy General against Qin and story is about Qin unification.
Hence i for quite some time didn't buy his initial hype, and only did once he pulled out Coalition Army and declared war on Qin.
If we also go by Hara Constant portrayal he is above anyone else in Kingdom, even the Great Shou Hei kun, when he challenged em to his face that none of Qin Generals were capable of beating him, yet he has also lost battle with advantages troops n strong Generals at his side. Or has been dependent on Houken most to win battles.
 
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