Versus Battle Tou vs Kanki

[God Buggy]

At the cerimony that saw the nomination of the new Qin Six Generals, the dangers that come with the right to freely wage war were brought up and Tou personally intervened, threatening to obliterate whoever would step out of line.

Spoiler

Not long after, the now Qin Six Kanki defeated Kochou and ordered the execution of 100,000 Zhao soldiers. Sei himself came to the battlefield to confront Kanki. Now at that time, the scenario envisioned by Tou didn't materialize.

Spoiler

So for this one let's say that after Kanki committed a huge atrocity against civilians, an enraged Sei decides that this extremely disruptive individual has be dealt with. And who he sends at him is none other than Great General Tou of Qin's Six. His loyal sword.

Spoiler

(Yes Tou said that he would rally the other Qin Six generals, but I'm picking him alone for this one otherwise it'd be an utter stomp lol).


Both Kanki and Tou have a 120k army under them.

Will Tou end up getting checkmated, falling in a lethal trap devised by Qin's devil?

Or will Kanki be the first unfortunate to see what lies behind Tou's hyped up "true power"?

@Owl Ki @Elder Lee Hung @FutureWarrior123 @Blackbeard @MarineHQ @Bepo @Luffy is the mc @TheKnightOfTheSea @SakazOuki @Yo Tan Wa @Dark Admiral @Shanks @Cichy @Jailer etc.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

Kanki luring Tou into a trap would be just as dangerous for Kanki himself as it would be for Tou lol. But I don’t see this happening honestly. Riboku fell for Kanki’s trap because Kanki’s threatening of civilians made Riboku lose his cool. I just don’t see this happening with Tou who is really good about keeping his wits about him. But if Tou did get baited into a trap, I don’t see Kanki having the advantage there. Just imagine the Riboku scenario but with Tou there. All of Kanki’s lieutenants heads are about to go flying against Tou. Zenou is the only issue but Riboku’s men slowly wore him down, and if Tou slays Kanki then it’s over.

I also don’t think Kanki’s torture/mutilation strategies would really work against Ouki’s guys who are all hard as fuck. Such strategies might just make them even more dangerous when the times comes to actually fight for Tou’s head because they’ll just get even angrier lol.

Yeah, I’m not really sure how Kanki takes Tou’s head. Tou really doesn’t have any weaknesses Kanki can exploit, and I don’t see Tou falling for Kanki’s baits. And like I said even if Kanki traps Tou…well good luck killing him lol.

I’d say Tou around a high diff.

 

[God Buggy]

Kanki luring Tou into a trap would be just as dangerous for Kanki himself as it would be for Tou lol. But I don’t see this happening honestly. Riboku fell for Kanki’s trap because Kanki’s threatening of civilians made Riboku lose his cool. I just don’t see this happening with Tou who is really good about keeping his wits about him. But if Tou did get baited into a trap, I don’t see Kanki having the advantage there. Just imagine the Riboku scenario but with Tou there. All of Kanki’s lieutenants heads are about to go flying against Tou. Zenou is the only issue but Riboku’s men slowly wore him down, and if Tou slays Kanki then it’s over.

I also don’t think Kanki’s torture/mutilation strategies would really work against Ouki’s guys who are all hard as fuck. Such strategies might just make them even more dangerous when the times comes to actually fight for Tou’s head because they’ll just get even angrier lol.

Yeah, I’m not really sure how Kanki takes Tou’s head. Tou really doesn’t have any weaknesses Kanki can exploit, and I don’t see Tou falling for Kanki’s baits. And like I said even if Kanki traps Tou…well good luck killing him lol.

I’d say Tou around a high diff.

I agree with Tou winning. In most scenarios, I don't see Kanki being able to achieve against him the sort of checkmate that would win him the day against many others. And with how smart and composed Tou is, Kanki himself could well end up prey of some scheme. So I think Tou takes it most of the times.

I'll say though, that if Kanki ends up fooling Tou and making him fall in some of his devious schemes, Tou will be in huge danger. Unless you are Houken or Kyoukai (i.e. you don't belong in this manga lol), it won't take many soldiers and much time at all to slay an individual top tier warrior.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

Unless you are Houken or Kyoukai (i.e. you don't belong in this manga lol), it won't take many soldiers and much time at all to slay an individual top tier warrior.

Idk man, Tou is so fast, skilled, and powerful with that sword I think killing him would be a huge task. Don’t forget that Tou charged single handedly into Rinbukun’s HQ with no backup at all, dude is a freak of a warrior.

 

[God Buggy]

Idk man, Tou is so fast, skilled, and powerful with that sword I think killing him would be a huge task. Don’t forget that Tou charged single handedly into Rinbukun’s HQ with no backup at all, dude is a freak of a warrior.

That was impressive lol. I checked and there were Qin soldiers fighting but for a part of the path he was more isolated (the famous panel). I think Tou's sheer skill/speed is immense.

But out of curiosity, what do you see (roughly) as the number of soldiers needed to take down a top tier warrior that isn't an hax machine like Kyoukai/Houken? Picture this guy fighting a bunch of soldiers.

For example, Jiaga got hyped up for having taken down 100 Yan soldiers in a battle (and that would have been when he was supported by his own army).

 

[SakazOuki]

Tou is a pretty bad matchup for Kanki
It depends on terrain tho, but I’m willing to give Tou 6 out of 10 matches

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

That was impressive lol. I checked and there were Qin soldiers fighting but for a part of the path he was more isolated (the famous panel). I think Tou's sheer skill/speed is immense.

But out of curiosity, what do you see (roughly) as the number of soldiers needed to take down a top tier warrior that isn't an hax machine like Kyoukai/Houken? Picture this guy fighting a bunch of soldiers.

For example, Jiaga got hyped up for having taken down 100 Yan soldiers in a battle (and that would have been when he was supported by his own army).

If Tou is isolated then theoretically he should be slain pretty quickly. As for the exact number, idk it really just depends on what troops we’re talking about. And if Tou gets surrounded alone then he’s done. But I think that would be an enormous task as Tou’s men are so experienced and ofc Tou himself wouldn’t let himself get isolated so easily.

 

[Dark Admiral]

As long as immortal Rokumi is there, Tou is unstoppable.lol Tou can freely charge at Kanki and his instincts are also pretty much on the level of Ouki (confirmed by the man himself) which will allow him to steer clear of any traps set by Kanki.

 

[Rumble]

Tou absolutely destroys Kan Ki stylistically. Not the one.

 

[Cichy]

Tou if it's open plains, Kanki if it's forrest or mountains.

 

[MarineHQ]

Tou is the last General in China I see falling for Kanki's style of warfare and even if he does he has the martial might to save himself.

But the Kanki army > Remnants of Ouki
More quality warriors.

I definitely favour Tou but it probably isn't one sided at all.

Edit: Okay. Giving this more of a thought I think I'm actually willing to give this to Kanki. The Ouki remnants are way to weak and it it's not like Tou has officers that yet need to be introduced like the Moubu army.

Maron, Koku'ou, Raido, Ringyoku, Shuma > Rokuomi, Ryuukoku, Rinbou, Doukin

And obviously fucking Zenou

 

[Rumble]

But the Kanki army > Remnants of Ouki
More quality warriors.

Stop the cap.

 

[TheKnightOfTheSea]

Tou army subordinates aren't anything special, but they're stronger than Kanki's subordinates except for Zenou, who I think would be easy pickings for Tou.

 

[Cichy]

Tou army subordinates aren't anything special, but they're stronger than Kanki's subordinates except for Zenou, who I think would be easy pickings for Tou.

Yeah, but Kanki has like six subordinates vs Tou's three. And Kanou is not anything special either. Rokuomi and Ryuukoku would have to carry it hard.

 

[Rumble]

Tou army subordinates aren't anything special, but they're stronger than Kanki's subordinates except for Zenou, who I think would be easy pickings for Tou.

Is this impression coloured by lacklustre stats or just your impression from the panels?

Way I see it, Tou's subordinates are underestimated quite a lot. They routinely have their decades worth of experience fighting in the golden era of the Warring States overlooked and toughness discounted. What little panel time each has gotten has been predominately been of them being up against it in highly disadvantaged scenarios.

Based on my read, Tou's subs are really well rounded, highly competent and among the better ones in the series. I do wish Hara hadn't killed off Rin Bou - losing an eye should've sufficed, but I digress.

 

[TheKnightOfTheSea]

Is this impression coloured by lacklustre stats or just your impression from the panels?

Way I see it, Tou's subordinates are underestimated quite a lot. They're decades worth of experience fighting in the golden era of the Warring States is routinely overlooked and toughness discounted. What little panel time each has gotten has been predominately been of them being up against it in highly disadvantaged scenarios.

Based on my read, Tou's subs are really well rounded, highly competent and among the better ones in the series. I do wish Hara hadn't killed off Rin Bou - losing an eye should've sufficed.

I don't even know their stats.

I think they're solid, but that's it. They were explicitly stated to be leagues below Heavenly Kings, and they've gotten powercreeped. Look at Sentou'un vs Rokoumi and Ranbihaku for instance. I believe in Bayou they were hyped up as being commanders "onpar with generals", while most of the formidable vassal generals now are hyped up to a much greater extent.

Though their experience gives them advantages. I can't picture them looking as incompetent as some of the Ousen commanders look now.

They are better than Kanki's vassals though.

I enjoyed Rinbou's character.

 

[Rumble]

I don't even know their stats.

I think they're solid, but that's it. They were explicitly stated to be leagues below Heavenly Kings, and they've gotten powercreeped. Look at Sentou'un vs Rokoumi and Ranbihaku for instance. I believe in Bayou they were hyped up as being commanders "onpar with generals", while most of the formidable vassal generals now are hyped up to a much greater extent.

Though their experience gives them advantages. I can't picture them looking as incompetent as some of the Ousen commanders look now.

They are better than Kanki's vassals though.

I enjoyed Rinbou's character.

As I often argue, given Hara's penchant for hyperbole and exaggeration, I put very little stock in what thoughts, opinions or sentiments characters express in the telling of the story versus the showing. (Obviously it's different when characters state a claimed fact, date or figure.)

Whatever was stated of Ou Ki's vassals, I believe a full accounting of context in examining the material proves they are an incredibly tough, highly skilled bunch and noteworthy leaders of men that have delivered under extremely difficult circumstances at every turn.

As for Roku O Mi, I don't hold it against him that he doesn't compare martially to monsters like Ran Bi Haku and Sen To'un. The former has always been considered formidable by figures like the likes of Kyou (renowned for her skill on offence and gave Hou Ken a good fight), Ou Ki and Tou. The latter is a bona fide Great General that defied the armies of Chu, he's a martial monster I estimate to be on par with Duke Hyou, Ou Hon, Yo Tan Wa and Tou.

-

In case you're curious, these are the stats for Ou Ki's vassals - the surviving ones are of course more recent and higher than what they once were.

Spoiler

1st Commander Roku O Mi STR 92 LDR 90 INT 82
2nd Commander Ryuu Koku STR 82 LDR 88 INT 93
3rd Commander Rin Bou STR 87 LDR 88 INT 85
4th Commander Kan OU STR 86 LDR 87 INT 82
5th Commander Dou Kin STR 88 LDR 85 INT 80

 

[TheKnightOfTheSea]

As I often argue, given Hara's penchant for hyperbole and exaggeration, I put very little stock in what thoughts, opinions or sentiments characters express in the telling the story versus the showing. (Obviously it's different when characters state a claimed fact, date or figure.)

Whatever was stated of Ou Ki's vassals, I believe a full accounting of context in examining the material proves they are an incredible tough, highly skilled bunch and noteworthy leaders of men that have delivered under extremely difficult circumstances at every turn.

As for Roku O Mi, I don't hold it against him that he doesn't compare martially to monsters like Ran Bi Haku and Sen To'un. The former has always been considered formidable by figure the likes of Kyou (renowned for her skill on offence and gave Hou Ken a good fight), Ou Ki and Tou. The latter is a bona fide Great General that defied the armies of Chu, he's a martial monster I estimate to be on par with Duke Hyou, Ou Hon, Yo Tan Wa and Tou.

I pretty much wholeheartedly agree. Though I think the Heavenly King statement can be taken as fact unless it's disproven by a direct clash between one of the remaining Ouki commanders and a Heavenly King caliber fighter.

The Ouki commanders are ideal. They don't have any huge exploitable weaknesses, the best way to beat them is just to outclass them imo.

Rokoumi is by no means weak and I've revised my opinion of him to rate him higher, but I don't think a heavenly king martial focused fighter like Kaishibou for example would look like that against Sentou'un.

I do agree with your scaling of Sentou'un. Thought he was a monster

 

[Rumble]

I pretty much wholeheartedly agree. Though I think the Heavenly King statement can be taken as fact unless it's disproven by a direct clash between one of the remaining Ouki commanders and a Heavenly King caliber fighter.

The Ouki commanders are ideal. They don't have any huge exploitable weaknesses, the best way to beat them is just to outclass them imo.

Rokoumi is by no means weak and I've revised my opinion of him to rate him higher, but I don't think a heavenly king martial focused fighter like Kaishibou for example would look like that against Sentou'un.

I do agree with your scaling of Sentou'un. Thought he was a monster

You are 100% correct about the Heavenly Kings being better than Ou Ki's vassals. I consider each of them Great General level commanders and if I would rank them relative to other vassals for scale it would look like this:

• #0 Tou (was always built different and a 6GG grade commander)
• #1 Gyou'un
• #2 Gen Po / Kei Sha
• #3 Ba Nan Ji / Chou Ga Ryuu / Kyo En
• #4 A Kou / Kai Shi Bou / Kan Saro / Rin Ko / Roku O Mi / Ryuu Koku / Shun Sui Ju
• #5 Den Ri Mi / Gaku Shou / Ma Kou / Sou'Ou / Earl Rai
• #6 Earl Kou / Dou Kin / Jyou Ka Ryuu / Ji Aga / Kan Ou / Rin Bou

As for Roku O Mi, I would scale him like this:

Gai Mou = Man'U > Earl Shi = Sen To'un > Buddha > Gyou'un > Ba Nan Ji = Ran Bi Haku > Shou Mou > Ai Sen = Roku O Mi > A Kou = Kan Saro > Ba Tei = Shi Ryou > Gaku Shou > Ma Kou = Ryuu Fuu

 

[TheKnightOfTheSea]

You are 100% correct about the Heavenly Kings being better than Ou Ki's vassals. I consider each of them Great General level commanders and if I would rank them relative to other vassals for scale it would look like this:

• #0 Tou (was always built different and a 6GG grade commander)
• #1 Gyou'un
• #2 Gen Po / Kei Sha
• #3 Ba Nan Ji / Chou Ga Ryuu / Kyo En
• #4 A Kou / Kai Shi Bou / Kan Saro / Rin Ko / Roku O Mi / Ryuu Koku / Shun Sui Ju
• #5 Den Ri Mi / Gaku Shou / Ma Kou / Sou'Ou / Earl Rai
• #6 Earl Kou / Dou Kin / Jyou Ka Ryuu / Ji Aga / Kan Ou / Rin Bou

As for Roku O Mi, I would scale him like this:

Gai Mou = Man'U > Earl Shi = Sen To'un > Buddha > Gyou'un > Ba Nan Ji = Ran Bi Haku > Shou Mou > Ai Sen = Roku O Mi > A Kou = Kan Saro > Ba Tei = Shi Ryou > Gaku Shou > Ma Kou = Ryuu Fuu

I like the rating systems. I'll try to do my own based off my recollection:

• Tou(closer to Ouki than anyone on this list.)
• Keisha(confirmed to be great general level, I have him above every single Zhao commander except for the old Heavens, SBS and Riboku).
• Kyou'en(fought 4 of the Qin 6 + Renpa, so survived wars against 5 top legit top tiers)/Genpou(SHK level mind)/Gyou'un(the goat).
• Bananji/Kaishibou/Akou/Chougaryuu/Rinko/Kansaro(his hype is actualy insane)/Shunsuiju(matched up against YTW twice).
• Jiaga/Rokuomi(I think he has to be at least a tier below Rinko/Kaishibou)/Ryuu Koku/Gakushou/JKR/Sou'Ou/Denrimi.

Not sure how to scale the rest.

I think you're downplaying the Seika guys a bit, but I understand why you would considering some of their antifeats.

Lemme try my take on the martial list:
Man'U>=Gaimou=EarlShi>Sentou'un>Gyou'un>=Banana>Akou=Buddha=Ranbihaku>Kansaro>Shoumou>Rokuomi>Aisen=GakoshouBatei=Shiryou>Makou>Ryuu Fuu.

I don't rate Aisen that highly but I could be forgetting some things. Was his feat against Gakushou a 1v1 feat. I really buy the Kansaro hype.

I always felt like Earl Shi was more impressive than Gaimou because of how he killed 3 Great Generals,b ut I put them as equals out of respect to Hara's stat system. Sentou'un is strong but I rate Earl very highly.

This is my Zhao top 10 of all time as reference to show how highly I rank Keisha

top 10 best Zhao generals of all time(fuck the bushin)

1. Riboku
2. Renpa.
3. Rinshoujou.
4. Chousha.
5. Shibashou(for now).
6. Keisha.
7. Kochou.
8. Prime Gyou'un.
9. Kyou'En.
10. Genpou.