Spoiler Unfiltered Kingdom Talks - Historical info & all that jazz (Beware)

#1
Making this thread separate from the general discussion & spoilers talk, since not everyone has interest in historical spoilers and it's a pain being all careful about mentioning spoilers. So with this thread just want to be full on openness with Kingdom historical info and any conversations pertaining to that.

To start it off, in reply to the brotha @TheKnightOfTheSea

1. What are your impressions of Raku'a Kan?
My impression? NGL to you my guy, but bro seems to be a Akou/Rokuomi level general lmao. However, since he's the main general of Han, I reckon he could probably be something like Choutou & Mougou.... or at best Kouchou. But yea not really a strong impression so far.


2. Do you think there's any significance behind the fact that we've yet to properly see the face of Sei's father in a flashback?
I think the significance is just to illustrate how irrelevant he is to the story. BUT it could be played by Hara to where there is something he left behind for Sei or things of that nature that end up helping Ei Sei down the line. Since Sei laters gives him the title "Taishang Huangdi" or something like that. Which is an honorary title granted to ex emperors in their honor that Ei Sei started with his father. Liu Bang does something similar for his father as well, and these two were VERY close to each other. So based on that, yea this dude very well could be an impactful character for Ei Sei.

However, it'd be all to Hara's creativity the things he'd write between Sei & his father, rather than anything historical based. His thought process would be something along the lines of : "Hmmm what could Qin Shi Huang's father have done for him, that made him give his father a title of that magnitude despite being long dead".

3. When do you expect Kouen to appear?

There's two options for his intro:

- Around Ouhon's big Chu campaign, which is in about 6 years in-verse time. That'll be our first exposure imo to the big structure Chu and their military build up. Could be something like the Juuko boys getting taken down by Ouhon and whoever else is with him that campaign, then Kouen comes in to stop Ouhon and co's advance.

OR

- Around the time Riboku gets taken down, and there's a political discourse related to the Chu King-Prince that takes place, so around that time could be a perfect way to introduce Kouen as well as the next big threat, where he's stabilizing the stiuation in Chu, because Karin-Rien can't do it. (Since he's already sort of implied to be a bigger entity than the two as Rien went to seek his advice despite being prime minister).

4. Do you think Ri En is legit? Like, do you think he'll be a big political opponent?
I don't think we'll ever get a legit political opponent at all, just because everything is so military related. So all the opponents would have to be military based.

Kanpishi had the potential to be that, but Hara turned him into motivation for RiShi instead. I just don't see how Oda can write a political scenario with a dude from another state while they're doing a conquest. Unless it's sum shit related propaganda warfare.


5. Thoughts on Karin's backstory with her Brother.
Still holding out for the Kanki-Karin backstory, would be something like a tragic ending. But likelihood is it'll just be some minor inspo background story for her character during in-battle. I don't have any high hopes for it.


6. What's your personal favorite Kingdom character design?
Ousen & Yotanwa (when properly drawn)


7. Do you think we'll see Zhao Gao(forgot his Kingdom name) in a major role in the future?

If Hara sticks to his words and takes it all the way to the Han Dynasty (which I hope he does as I would love to see Liu Bang's story), then yea without a doubt Zhao Gao will get a major role in the future.

8. How do you expect the Prince of Yan storyline to go?

NGL to you, but I have 0 idea on this storyline and the historical relevance of the prince of Yan, so you'd have to explain it to me first.
 
#2
About Raku Kan, as the head of the Han miltary, at his highest peak he has the same vibes as Tou but at his lowest he can be in the same caliber as Akou.

Really up to Haru but i could care less until we know more about Sei's father.

When Zhao get defeated, then we see the tiger wake up from his slumber
IDK...

very minor, so dont really care all that much about it

Kyou kai and Yotan Wa and the very first page of kingdom where we see a full fledge prime Shin.

Who?

???
 
#5
Not for a while longer. We're in 232 BC now. Ri Boku dies in 229 BC.
Thanks,

He has been so annoying lately. Will there be another arc that is not focused on Zhao/Riboku? I enjoyed the spy and politics focused chapters. But Kingdom has not been the same for me since Kanki's death.
Ousen is another boring character.
Need something different, other than current Zhao invasion.
 
#6
Thanks,

He has been so annoying lately. Will there be another arc that is not focused on Zhao/Riboku? I enjoyed the spy and politics focused chapters. But Kingdom has not been the same for me since Kanki's death.
Ousen is another boring character.
Need something different, other than current Zhao invasion.
I'll be real, it's impossible to give you any answers. The records aren't quite so detailed and Hara has a lot of room for creative license. The history nerds are flying almost as blind as you are.
 
#7
I'll be real, it's impossible to give you any answers. The records aren't quite so detailed and Hara has a lot of room for creative license. The history nerds are flying almost as blind as you are.
Yeah, it is like we are in the slow patch of manga.
If you remember slow pace at the start or Zhao invasion.

And these side characters keep popping up from Zhao side, I dont even remember their names or faces (binge read manga few months ago).

What are your thoughts on Riboku?
Generally, does Kingdom community like him?
 
#8
Thanks,

He has been so annoying lately. Will there be another arc that is not focused on Zhao/Riboku? I enjoyed the spy and politics focused chapters. But Kingdom has not been the same for me since Kanki's death.
Ousen is another boring character.
Need something different, other than current Zhao invasion.
I agree, I don't know whether Hara's writing is bound to historical events (because yes, historically Riboku fought many wars against Qin) or he just doesn't want to let go of the Ousen vs Riboku formula. The Western Zhao invasion begins around chapter 500 (not even including Koku Yo hills which is also a Zhao arc), we're almost 300 chapters later and relatively the story hasn't progressed that much. This might be a controversial take but I believe Hara should be able to deviate from historic events (or combine/change them) for the sake of writing a better story. People complain about One Piece's pacing being inconsistent (which it is) but atleast every arc and/or location the Strawhats visit feels different and refreshing.
 
#9
I agree, I don't know whether Hara's writing is bound to historical events (because yes, historically Riboku fought many wars against Qin) or he just doesn't want to let go of the Ousen vs Riboku formula. The Western Zhao invasion begins around chapter 500 (not even including Koku Yo hills which is also a Zhao arc), we're almost 300 chapters later and relatively the story hasn't progressed that much. This might be a controversial take but I believe Hara should be able to deviate from historic events (or combine/change them) for the sake of writing a better story. People complain about One Piece's pacing being inconsistent (which it is) but atleast every arc and/or location the Strawhats visit feels different and refreshing.
Yeah, there is nothing interesting in current events.

The dialogues are like; he will do this, do that, I trust him, his men are strong, etc.

Need some characters as interesting as Kanki.
Or maybe, just focus on Ousen and show his inner monologues, not just "I knew it, all according to the plan".
 

TheKnightOfTheSea

𝕷𝖔𝖗𝖉 𝖔𝖋 𝕸𝖔𝖔𝖓'𝖘 𝕾𝖕𝖆𝖜𝖓
#11
My impression? NGL to you my guy, but bro seems to be a Akou/Rokuomi level general lmao. However, since he's the main general of Han, I reckon he could probably be something like Choutou & Mougou.... or at best Kouchou. But yea not really a strong impression so far.
I would disagree



"He's the real deal". In his very second appearance, Hara already started hyping him up.

I believe it was @Elder Lee Hung who said that if tiny states had dudes like Man'U and Sentou'un, the larger Han should have a general above even those two in overall capabilities.

I think it will turn out that he's an amazing defensive general. His head subordinate also seems interesting.

BUT it could be played by Hara to where there is something he left behind for Sei or things of that nature that end up helping Ei Sei down the line
I always figured if Sei's father was included in the story, it would be as a dark part of Sei or the royal Qin Family's past.

Since Sei laters gives him the title "Taishang Huangdi" or something like that.
Interesting. Hara will definitely have to invent a reason if he wants to include that in the story. Considering how irrelevant Sei's father has been, I can see him just ignoring it tbh.

I don't think we'll ever get a legit political opponent at all, just because everything is so military related. So all the opponents would have to be military based.

Kanpishi had the potential to be that, but Hara turned him into motivation for RiShi instead. I just don't see how Oda can write a political scenario with a dude from another state while they're doing a conquest. Unless it's sum shit related propaganda warfare.
Interesting. By political opponent, I meant another Ryofui. Though obviously it would be different because of Rien being a Chu resident.

It would be interesting if Rien and Karin visit Qin together like Riboku did in the past.

Still holding out for the Kanki-Karin backstory, would be something like a tragic ending. But likelihood is it'll just be some minor inspo background story for her character during in-battle. I don't have any high hopes for it.
Do you think the brother that showed up in the Coalition Arc is the same as the one she was looking for? I think he's a substitution personally.

If Hara sticks to his words and takes it all the way to the Han Dynasty (which I hope he does as I would love to see Liu Bang's story), then yea without a doubt Zhao Gao will get a major role in the future.
I really hope Kingdom lasts that long...

I can see Zhao Gao returning the Qin palace at some point and becoming renown, though I don't know how that would happen because I believed he was executed.

It's interesting that Hara chose to include him so early. No way he doesn't have plans(or at least had plans during the State of Ai arc). I think his existence is best evidence that Kingdom will last pass unification.

NGL to you, but I have 0 idea on this storyline and the historical relevance of the prince of Yan, so you'd have to explain it to me first.
He sends an assassin after Sei. This makes Sei more paranoid and is one of the reasons he becomes obsessed with immortality. I believe in Kingdom, the assassin will kill Shobunkun.

Later, Sei sends Ousen and Shin after him and his head is delivered to the Qin by his own father.


He was already mentioned after Gyou by his father, the King.
 

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
#12
I believe it was @Elder Lee Hung who said that if tiny states had dudes like Man'U and Sentou'un, the larger Han should have a general above even those two in overall capabilities.

I think it will turn out that he's an amazing defensive general. His head subordinate also seems interesting.
Yeah @Xione Akou/Rokuomi level for Rakuakan? Cap lol, dude is going to be Juukou gang level at minimum. Probably mostly an intellectual general with some fighting ability similar to Keisha if I had to guess. That would be befitting of Han’s number one general. Yoku Yoku is probably going to be Han’s main martial power.
 

Peroroncino

🅷🅰🅻🅰 🅼🅰🅳🆁🅸🅳
#13
This arc is a slog to get through.
The story barely progresses and no matter how many Zhao generals are killed riboku just always produces more legendary zhao generals out of his ass
 
#14
Thanks,

He has been so annoying lately. Will there be another arc that is not focused on Zhao/Riboku? I enjoyed the spy and politics focused chapters. But Kingdom has not been the same for me since Kanki's death.
Ousen is another boring character.
Need something different, other than current Zhao invasion.
From my understanding the next major war arc after this will be the Han campaign which will probably be the same arc that it gets conquered. Then the final Zhao war will be after that. Based on what I know at least.
 
#15
This arc is a slog to get through.
The story barely progresses and no matter how many Zhao generals are killed riboku just always produces more legendary zhao generals out of his ass
This is just a wildly inaccurate take. idk what's up with you, but this arc literally just got started.

Hara has been on a break neck speed with these arcs since WZI. The only time he lulled was during Shin's absurdly long duel with Buddha.
 

Peroroncino

🅷🅰🅻🅰 🅼🅰🅳🆁🅸🅳
#16
This is just a wildly inaccurate take. idk what's up with you, but this arc literally just got started.

Hara has been on a break neck speed with these arcs since WZI. The only time he lulled was during Shin's absurdly long duel with Buddha.
 
#17
Putting this here since this speculation has historical stuff in it.

So, historically Shin conquers the state of Qi. And I don't think Hara will "deviate" from that in the manga but he might make the context quite different.

In the manga it is well known that Ousen wants to create his own Kingdom, and that has made him quite untrustworthy. Notice the "Ou" in both Ousen and Qi's current king, Ouken. Could it be that Ousen in some way related to the current Qi royalty? Maybe the answer is yes. And at one point Ousen will go against Sei, be a total and open enemy, and he might actually become the king at the helm of Qi.

Then, the speculated Ousen vs Shin match will happen. Probably, I'd say certainly, with Ouhon too being involved. Wang Ben (Ouhon) was indeed involved with Shin in the Qi conquest. And of course in the manga there's the whole Ousen/Ouhon relationship.




This will be the main event of Hara's Qin vs Qi campaign, bringing to a close Ousen's plotline as well finally the unification of China through Shin's blade, with him becoming the greatest general of the Heavens and Sei the legendary king who made China one.

@Owl Ki @Elder Lee Hung @FutureWarrior123 @Jailer @Shanks @Yo Tan Wa @Blackbeard @MarineHQ @TheKnightOfTheSea
 
#18
Putting this here since this speculation has historical stuff in it.

So, historically Shin conquers the state of Qi. And I don't think Hara will "deviate" from that in the manga but he might make the context quite different.

In the manga it is well known that Ousen wants to create his own Kingdom, and that has made him quite untrustworthy. Notice the "Ou" in both Ousen and Qi's current king, Ouken. Could it be that Ousen in some way related to the current Qi royalty? Maybe the answer is yes. And at one point Ousen will go against Sei, be a total and open enemy, and he might actually become the king at the helm of Qi.

Then, the speculated Ousen vs Shin match will happen. Probably, I'd say certainly, with Ouhon too being involved. Wang Ben (Ouhon) was indeed involved with Shin in the Qi conquest. And of course in the manga there's the whole Ousen/Ouhon relationship.




This will be the main event of Hara's Qin vs Qi campaign, bringing to a close Ousen's plotline as well finally the unification of China through Shin's blade, with him becoming the greatest general of the Heavens and Sei the legendary king who made China one.

@Owl Ki @Elder Lee Hung @FutureWarrior123 @Jailer @Shanks @Yo Tan Wa @Blackbeard @MarineHQ @TheKnightOfTheSea
Sounds like a pretty solid theory. It would also be a good way to cement Shin becoming that whole "Greatest General" deal if he beats the guy responsible for mostly beating everyone else. Lol.
 

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
#19
Putting this here since this speculation has historical stuff in it.

So, historically Shin conquers the state of Qi. And I don't think Hara will "deviate" from that in the manga but he might make the context quite different.

In the manga it is well known that Ousen wants to create his own Kingdom, and that has made him quite untrustworthy. Notice the "Ou" in both Ousen and Qi's current king, Ouken. Could it be that Ousen in some way related to the current Qi royalty? Maybe the answer is yes. And at one point Ousen will go against Sei, be a total and open enemy, and he might actually become the king at the helm of Qi.

Then, the speculated Ousen vs Shin match will happen. Probably, I'd say certainly, with Ouhon too being involved. Wang Ben (Ouhon) was indeed involved with Shin in the Qi conquest. And of course in the manga there's the whole Ousen/Ouhon relationship.




This will be the main event of Hara's Qin vs Qi campaign, bringing to a close Ousen's plotline as well finally the unification of China through Shin's blade, with him becoming the greatest general of the Heavens and Sei the legendary king who made China one.

@Owl Ki @Elder Lee Hung @FutureWarrior123 @Jailer @Shanks @Yo Tan Wa @Blackbeard @MarineHQ @TheKnightOfTheSea
This is my “Ousen is the final villain” theory boiled down in its most basic terms. I fully believe this will happen.
 
#20
This is my “Ousen is the final villain” theory boiled down in its most basic terms. I fully believe this will happen.
Come to think of it, the big four figures of the Warring States Era are Hakuki, Ousen, Riboku and Renpa.

If Shin is ultimately responsible for Riboku's last military defeat, beats Renpa in Chu and conquers the final state of Qi being led by Ousen then that really would cement him as the best General of all time in the manga. Lol.
 
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