Theory Vergo Is The Template For Post Timeskip Pacifista

[HopOnTheHype]

I want to start off that Sentoumau directly implid that the pre timeskip pacifista have been improved by quote he made during post timeskip sabondy. Upon luffy, zoro, and sanji making quick work of their 2 pacifista enemies or however many they fought, Sentoumaru essentially said "they were models from 2 and a half years ago, but still", essentially stating they were the same generation of model that the pre timeskip pacifista were. This implies that yes, there have been an improvement to them.


I believe Oda can go one of two ways to differentiate these two models:

1. He makes each of the Pacifista have a unique design, making them characters in their own right with some sentience
2. Give them a new character template so that they are distinct from the Kuma looking ones of Pre Timeskip

Kuma is powerful, but his pacifista have been smacked down so hard that they just don't any level to redeem themselves after all them being cut down and beat around so easily. So I bring up the possibility that VERGO is the will be the new aesthetic design of the new Pacifista.


Why Vergo?

• He, for the reader, acts as a powerful character, who isn't like staring down at 30 Kaidous. He is heavily competent, and his theme is perfect for there to be plenty of him, we saw how competent he was in action, and he doesn't have the reputation of being fodderized.
• He was a marine, meaning he was in a position where Vegapunk could have went "I will use him"
• He was CLEARLY an augmented human, everything about him from Sanji mentioning that it like kicking metal (even without busoshoku or rokushiki involved), he had the "I'll keep coming and eating through your attacks" theme going for him, Critical even made a giant thing about him being Terminator based.
• I think he just has that "look", that would be interesting and intimidating to see like 30 of him lined up
• His sleaker design would be a strong contrast to the big bulky and slow model of the pacifista, this is the newer iphone model, they are faster, they can perceive attacks quicker and thus counter (before they just tanked and slowly attacked), etc

So what does that mean for how strong they are?

I'd like to believe that the Post Timeskip Pacifista have improved to a significant rate. ​

As mentioned before, their ability to perceive attacks and even fight fluidly like they were real people would be more prnounced.​

They'd probably be akin to Vergo's level of strength, heavily competent and a game changer (like the one ishoo mentioned)​

Maybe be able to be programmed to use rokushiki​

Maybe not be able to use haki, but be augmented with Wapol metal or something to feign busoshoku, and seastone weapons​

They'd retain the lasers, but due to the fact that they are more fluid and less clunky, it becomes a bigger hassle to deal with​

Equipped for underwater pressures and to function underwater​

If they don't have rokushiki, something that allows them to fly​

Maybe a select few might have the ability to use devil fruits, like maybe a unit specifically of devil fruit users​

Overall I believe that Vergo will be the aesthetic template for future pacifista, and unlike with the kuma generation, they'll actually be pretty comparable to their template, and it's not that Luffy won't be able to defeat one or two, it'll be that they come at pirates and the revolutionaries with reckless abandon, relentlessly.

​

 

[Dr. Spook]

Yeah, I agree.

Vergo being a template definitely makes sense.
Like, dude has a lotta strength.. 'specially that right leg.

 

[Charlotte Horchata]

None of these points make much sense, in my opinion. Kuma is more powerful and threatening in any aspect than Vergo can even dream of, the augmented human argument isn't really valid (Diamante said about Kyros the same thing Sanji said about Vergo and we have natural-born "iron people"), his looks are less imposing than Kuma's (Vergo is more like a boring, narrow-minded soldier) and nothing really supports the actual necessity of replacing the original Pacifistas with a nobody like Vergo instead of improving them.

Vergo was a secondary character in an arc that ended eight years ago and whose plot, concept and design were completely subordinated to those of Doflamingo and Law. Kuma, on the other hand, is virtually perfect for an imposing human weapon, to the point that his design even obeys such role.

Like, dude has a lotta strength.. 'specially that right leg.

Imagine how strong his right leg is that it even breaks the physics of his clothes...! Certainly amazing.

 

[critical mindset]

Man this is something that would be really interesting! @HopOnTheHype I can definitely see this

Great theory and reasonings! Never even crossed my mind

 

[Charlotte Horchata]

What to expect from an overconfident bonobo, like you think you know physics, ape. Keep coping

It is impossible for his clothes to look like that if that's the right leg, the fabric from the lower part of his coat needs to cover something as it's hanging from it and the only possible option is the left leg as it kicks Sanji. That's an actual, proper understanding of how physics works (contextualized in the whole sequence of panels, also) instead of your "anatomy" that relies on assuming as realistic Oda's hyperbolic designs and actions plus ignoring the shot of the image. But I'm sure that, as usual, you will argue that his coat opened and closed off-screen (and only in that attack alone) as he changed from his left to his right and vice versa (off-screen, too).

By the way, reported for insulting me. Learn some education for once instead of spending your life thinking of Vergo.

 

[critical mindset]

It is impossible for his clothes to look like that if that's the right leg, the fabric from the lower part of his coat needs to cover something as it's hanging from it and the only possible option is the left leg as it kicks Sanji.

It's hanging loose because there is no right leg there lmao. How the fuck is that the right leg that connects to the left coatside while the right coat hangs loose

instead of your "anatomy" that relies on assuming as realistic Oda's hyperbolic designs and actions plus ignoring the shot of the image. But I'm sure that, as usual, you will argue that his coat opened and closed off-screen (and only in that attack alone) as he changed from his left to his right and vice versa (off-screen, too).

http://imgur.com/xtrowPI

I made this for you so you can understand

 

[Steven]

Vergo=Trash

End of Story

 

[critical mindset]

Vergo=Trash

End of Story

What does that make Sanji

 

[Steven]

What does that make Sanji

Stronger as Lergo

 

[Bullet]

If it's true they better give them 2 right legs so they wont have to switch from the left to right

 

[Charlotte Horchata]

It's hanging loose because there is no right leg there lmao. How the fuck is that the right leg that connects to the left coatside while the right coat hangs loose, bonobobrain

This is how the drawing should be done for the clothes to make some sense if Vergo is kicking with the right leg:

The yellow line follows a shape of the coat that is only possible if it's hanging from somewhere coming from the right side of Vergo's body (from our perspective, not his); hence the wrinkles coming from the hanging point, too. It can't be the right leg as in the position you're defending.

The red line is how the coat should approximately look according to your perspective, since the coat is closed in its lower part (except for a very short opening in the middle) and therefore will hang from the right leg as it's the coming out and moving. Just like in any of the other panels of the fight:

For your perspective to be true, the yellow line I've drawn would mean that the coat opened up to Vergo's waist as he kicked with the right leg; which isn't how this clothing behaves as shown in any other panel, in which it hangs from the legs following their moves. In the panel of the clash the coat is hanging from the left leg just in the same way it was hanging from it as Vergo approached Sanji with his, well, left leg. If he was kicking with his right leg, the coat would look more like in the bottom-left panel of my second image; which is what I suggested with the red line.

I made this for you so your feeble brain can understand

What I can understand is that a small real world girl from a frontal shot isn't the same as a tall cartoon man from a low angle shot drawn by a guy who consistently exaggerates anatomy and movements for aesthetic purposes.

By the way, you are reported again for insulting.

 

[HopOnTheHype]

None of these points make much sense, in my opinion. Kuma is more powerful and threatening in any aspect than Vergo can even dream of, the augmented human argument isn't really valid (Diamante said about Kyros the same thing Sanji said about Vergo and we have natural-born "iron people"), his looks are less imposing than Kuma's (Vergo is more like a boring, narrow-minded soldier) and nothing really supports the actual necessity of replacing the original Pacifistas with a nobody like Vergo instead of improving them.

Vergo was a secondary character in an arc that ended eight years ago and whose plot, concept and design were completely subordinated to those of Doflamingo and Law. Kuma, on the other hand, is virtually perfect for an imposing human weapon, to the point that his design even obeys such role.



Imagine how strong his right leg is that it even breaks the physics of his clothes...! Certainly amazing.

Kuma vs Vergo is one thing, but
1) Pre timeskip pacifista have been shast on by everyone and their mother
2) We need something differentiating the new vs old.
3) Vergo is literally based on critical's thread, based on a terminator
4) He was a marine of g5, well within reach of Vegapunk to both augment him before vergo turned out to be a traitor (therefore bolstering him), and also being used as a template.

Diamante saying Kyros is a chad doesn't really change that sanji kicked vergo with the strongest part of saji's body, and felt like he was kicking metal.

Cybernetic augments are in one piece, from franky to kuma, etc.

We're not talking about Kuma vs Vergo, we're talking about pacifistas. A bigger more bulky model pre timeskip and a slimmer and quicker model post timeskip seems like a proper upgrade. If the new models were just more kumas, we'd have no way to differentiate them from the pre timeskip models.

I'm not even saying "wow, vergo too stronk", but if you saw 20 vergos charging at you with soru, you might be in trouble no matter who you are. If they were comparable to vergo in strength, they'd be strong enough to crush you, without being so strong that it's just unfair.

Vergo is distinctly tied to Law and Doflamingo, also CC. Say Sanji, Law, and CC are together and then suddenly "Vergo" shows up, it's like "Fuck, how is he alive?", and then 3 more show up, and more show up around.

We could also have a thing with the real vergo, who now back with doflamingo (maybe frees him with his new fruit), and seeing doflamingo and vergo either help the strawhats, or heck, maybe even vergo was augmented so much that flipping a switch makes him loyal to the world government, and he's the "assassin" that gets or gets close to getting doflamingo that the world government have been trying to assassinate.

Vergo's plot relevance isn't important, he's a template, people wonder who the mona lisa is, but the painting is the famous part.


Also it'd be fitting that BOTH pacifista are people who were unloyal to the world government, kuma being a literal revolutionary, and vergo always being loyal to doflamingo.

Post automatically merged: Dec 10, 2020

Vergo=Trash

End of Story

That's cute and all, but if you had 20 vergos rushing you with an admiral, even kaidou would be in trouble

 

[Topi Jerami]

Stronger as Lergo

When you only type 3 words but have errors in all 3...

*Weaker
*Than
*Vergod

 

[critical mindset]

This is how the drawing should be done for the clothes to make some sense if Vergo is kicking with the right leg:

The yellow line follows a shape of the coat that is only possible if it's hanging from somewhere coming from the right side of Vergo's body (from our perspective, not his); hence the wrinkles coming from the hanging point, too. It can't be the right leg as in the position you're defending.

The red line is how the coat should approximately look according to your perspective, since the coat is closed in its lower part (except for a very short opening in the middle) and therefore will hang from the right leg as it's the coming out and moving. Just like in any of the other panels of the fight:

You're full of nonsense

The coat is perfectly congruent with the right position. Yes it is closed in the lower part, but Vergo moves his leg quite a bit over his waist near shoulder blade level even to be able to kick Sanji in the face with a 90 degree angle of his leg, them having a 3/4 height ratio to one another, he moves the leg outside the coat and that's why the RIGHT coatside hangs like that, over his thigh that is now high up in a 90 degree angle. The right coatside hangs loosely like that because it is hanging over the right thigh.

The yellow wrinkled part is wrinkled because his stationary leg (left) leg is slighly bent forward and his body is in a slightt arch, that's why you have wrinkles on the left coatside, perfectly congruent with Vergos' position.

With this position that you're arguing for, this dude wouldn't have any wrinkles on his left coatside like we see. He wouldn't have any fucking wrinkles when the left leg is extended like that, clod! The left coatside would be hanging a bit extended along his left leg that would be high up over his waist 90 degrees, it wouldn't be crumpled up like we see with Vergo. You can only have wrinkles like that if Vergo is bending his stationary leg, which is what Vergo does, he bends it sligforward because his whole body is in a slight arch. Dont make me show you a fucking picture lol, special case dude

This picture is what you're arguing for, only he hasn't got his leg as high up and as bent as Vergo does. He needs to pivot a lot more. Because of the fact that he needs to pivot a lot more THE LEFT COATSIDE will be HIGHER UP than the right coatside. That's not what we're seeing though. In the low angled perspective we see how the right coatside hangs higher that the left coatside. This should inexorably lead to only one conlcusion

@Charlotte Horchata are you capable of even grasping that this dude needs to pivot even more to mirror your left legged vergo's position? That is entirely incongruent with Vergo's position. He needs to pivot his fucking torso even more now so how can he face Sanjinmo the way he does? We see both his collars, Vergo is facing Sanji with his upper body, they're standing face to face to one another. That's not possible if he is kicking with his left leg where he needs to shift and pivot his hip and torso over to his right side, but more readily apparent his stationary leg (the right) will need to pivot as well which means the fucking left tilt we see is impossible, this dude cant have a left tilt. Just disregarding the shape of the foot which has the inside facing up(!) the left leg and foot will need to fully pivot to get Vergpos' position and that makes the left tilt impossible!

Are you even capable of understanding this is what you guys are arguing for?

What I can understand is that a small real world girl from a frontal shot isn't the same as a tall cartoon man from a low angle shot drawn by a guy who consistently exaggerates anatomy and movements for aesthetic purposes.

No she just shows that one can kick like that, and she just bends slightly forward with the left leg and she captures the exact position with the tilt and all. Even from the low angle perspective anyone of average spatial intelligence can gather some piece of clues that you are not capable of doing

 

[Extravlad]

Why would they downgrade from Kuma?

 

[critical mindset]

Why would they downgrade from Kuma?

Kuma has shown no fighting ability, whats so fuking great about him?

Sanji is more physcially powerful than Zoro and he got shat on hard

 

[Shuyaku]

Kuma has shown no fighting ability, whats so fuking great about him?

Sanji is more physcially powerful than Zoro and he got shat on hard

Kuma’s Ursus Shock didn’t put down pre-skip Sanji and Zoro, latter even blitzed him while half dead. Meanwhile Vergo switches legs on a fresh and massively more powerful version of Sanji

 

[Extravlad]

Kuma has shown no fighting ability, whats so fuking great about him?

Kuma>Vergo man

 

[HopOnTheHype]

Kuma>Vergo man

Because he's a slimmer model, kuma is powerful, pacifista are lumbering nothings. Essentially they went for tankiness/mass and slow laser attacks with the pre timeskip models, kuma would be a good model template for that.

Post timeskip now they'll have better metal (wapol metal), their ai will be better so they can actually perceive attacks coming at them in real time unlike the slow stuff the canon manga pacifista were who took 2 seconds to process new information. The slimmer models so they can have more mobility, now that they have metal that will stand up to attacks better and they're better designed.

Kuma's pacifista models have been shat on by everyone and their mother, and both in verse and out of verse, we need a differentiation between the two models cuz there will be a powerful gap in the strength of them.

Kuma pacifista models are kind of a laughing stock compared to the new world, they need new branding anyway, even if kuma is not as pathetic as them. Albeit Kuma isn't striking terror to anyone nowaodays either lol, look at his state.

Vergo also being heavily augmented into a robot and being related to a terminator, plus sanji relating him to metal (metal that broke sanji), all implies that vergo was probably augmented himself, likely from vegapunk, I mean he was the leader of the g5 new world base, he'd be in a proper marine position to get augmented.

So yeah, it makes sense.

 

[critical mindset]

Kuma>Vergo man

Kuma’s Ursus Shock didn’t put down pre-skip Sanji and Zoro, latter even blitzed him while half dead. Meanwhile Vergo switches legs on a fresh and massively more powerful version of Sanji

That's the fucking difference, Extravlad

Kuma may be tough and strong physically, but he is also carried by an insane fruit and what exactly is he without it? Kuma has no fighting ability like Vergo, so why should his pacifistas be better?