Was Kou Yoku stronger than the trio during the coalition?

Was Kou Yoku stronger than the trio?


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    16
#21
Kouyoku captured at least one Qin castle after Kanki's death and Karin was planning on sending him for several more, considering Qin doesn't often lose territory that's pretty good for a character with barely any screen time.
Thats good sign indeed, but I would like to see some onscreen display of tactics or instict from him.

They definitely are, Shin was just trash talking them.
Coalition War proved the opposite. Haku Rei was defeated by Mouten and Kouyoku was on the defensive against Ouhon. Their stats aren't anything outstanding either if you take that into consideration.

Rei was ranked the third highest among the ten bows and killed Rinbou, one of Ouki's generals, Yoku seemed evenly matched with Shin post-Sanyou and fought against Tou.
Against Shin Yoku had the advantage of being on the horseback. Against Tou he had the revenge weight after Rinbukun's death and as was pointed out it wasn't a pure 1 vs 1 either.

Killing Rinbou is good, but it's something that Qin trio at this point were also capable of doing under the right circumstances.
 

Daniel

Elmarit
‎‎‎‎
#22
Kou Yoku was depicted as being on par with Shin during the coalition arc (without the occasional enhancements Shin gains during critical battles), with instances where his listed statistic for his strength completely downplay his actual fighting ability. In that duel against Tou, Kou Yoku notably excelled when he wielded his Bakuya sword, pushing Tou to exert his full strength.

Despite this intense clash, it was evident that neither fighter was near defeat at any point in the battle.

Similarly to Shin, he could very well possess an "ability" where his abilities get amped up against opponents who are stronger than he is (to a point), but unlike Shin, Kou Yoku never had the opportunity to achieve victory against someone stronger than he is normally.
 
#23
My opinion on Rinko is that while he is an extremely powerful and lethal warrior, he can be slayed by people below his overall abilities as a Heavenly King.

Coalition Kouyoku could never pull off anything close to destroying Ouki's formation, but he could slay Rinko imo. Same with Shiryou for example
I don't consider Shi Ryou a sound example considering a) the writing this arc has been dog shit, and b) she was going all out, weight and all, like it was her dying will to protect Sou'Ou, and c) she killed Ji Aga by outsmarting him with a feint.

Rin Ko's death had to be engineered. I don't think he would've lost in a vacuum (i.e. not plot), even in a 2v1 against Sanyou Shin and Ou Hon.

Kou Yoku would've given him a good fight, a difficult fight, but I don't believe he would've won. I don't think Coalition Ou Hon would've won either, and Shin would still have been pushed to extremes to get the job done in a "clean" duel.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Their tactical showings are almost non-existant and so far Hara was not interested in giving them any substancial achievements.
It hasn't served the story to show this. You just have to fill in the blank yourself.

Hara very clearly juxtaposed these two as Q3 calibre talents. They might not be quite as good, but it's a closer rivalry than you're presenting it as.

pushing Tou to exert his full strength.
This didn't and hasn't happened. Yet.

Kou Yoku has never had Tou's undivided attention.
 
#26
Yes.

I've said this before, Kouyoku is the strongest young generation in the Coalition War.



Kouyoku was able to blocked Shin's sneak attack.



Shin acknowledged Yoku twice, while Yoku only once to Shin.

They both are on equal exchange here. Yoku even said that he should have brought his Bakuya with him or else he would just be wasting time.

Even if you do have Shin above Kouyoku, it's not by much and Bakuya boosted Yoku's fighting capability by a good amount.



Yoku with his normal sword can cut enemies but doesn't split them in half. With Bakuya on, he started splitting people in half.



Now, I've seen some folks saying Yoku got pressed by Ouhon down here as an anti-feats for Yoku:


There's 3 things:

1. A spear always has an advantage against a sword in close combat due to its range, so no shame for Yoku getting pressed by Ouhon here.

2. Yoku has NOT pull out Bakuya yet. That's on the next chapter. Ouhon pressing Yoku is at the end of 280. Bakuya is on 281.

3. After Yoku got pressed by Ouhon, Yoku immediately does this:


Yoku overpowered Ouhon and also tried to swing at Mouten right after attacking Ouhon. Then he pulls out Bakuya afterwards.


Then Yoku fought against Tou on an equal exchange for a good amount of time AND even forced out Demon Tou for a moment (his hair is a indication).




Hara even pointed out Yoku's hidden potential. For comparison:



Shin got his ass flying by Gaimou in their first blow exchange (this Shin is stronger than Coalition Shin), Shin exchange with Gaimou on equal footings for a bit but still feels overwhelmed to the point of almost losing consciousness. And then Shin is left near death here at the end of their duel. While Kouyoku is still going for blood against Tou if it wasn't for Karin's order of retreating and that of Kouyoku's men keeps dying left and right.

And most of y'all can admit that Tou > Gaimou as a fighter since both Ouki and Tou treats Gaimou as a meme.


So Yoku handles Tou better than Shin handling Gaimou.

Another comparison:


Tou EASILY deflected both Shin and Ouhon's attacks. The same Tou that got his hands full with Yoku.

Yoku usually got a head start before the Qin Young Trio as well.

Yoku got granted 5K troops by Karin in Coalition War. Now obviously like Hakurei said, he's not ready to command 5 thousand men just yet, but Yoku was doing alright considering his personality of an "eternal thousand man commander" said by Rinbukun.

I'm pretty sure both Ouhon and Mouten also got their own 5K commander moment when they were leading Tou's troops against Karin as well. Shin did the same with Duke Hyou's men if I remember correctly. So only Hakurei didn't get his 5K commander moment but we all agreed that he is the weakest young gen among the five.

After Shukai Plains where Qin 3 got promoted to generals, Yoku and Rei got promoted to generals as well in Juuko arc. Except that unlike Ouhon and Mouten who has 10K troops, Yoku and Rei has 15K like HSU. So Chu new gen got a head start before GKH and GKK and on par with HSU's troops.

After the death of Kanki, Karin ordered Yoku to take Qin's territories with 30K men. While Shin and Ouhon only got 30K in the newest arc right now. So Yoku got a good head start there and I suspect that his leadership will only get better.


Last but not least, I've seen some Rinko slander in here and that Coalition Kouyoku would beat Rinko (extreme diff). I don't think so tbh.

I think base Yoku would push Rinko to high diff. With Bakuya, extreme diff lost.

Rinko vs Shin and Ouhon:


Despite being pressured on both sides by Shin and Ouhon, Rinko held his ground and even overpowered both of them a couple of times. Ouhon even called him a monster.

Rinko only "lost" this fight because of Shin's growth and weight. Then in Shin vs Rinko round 3, Shin didn't even beat him fair and square. Rinko got distracted by Sosui for a second and Shin took that chance and finished him off.

Sanyou Shin and Ouhon in my opinion are above Rokuomi and on par with Seika generals like Kansaro and Gakushou in strength. Rinko is an underrated warrior. Just because he got defeated early doesn't mean he got powerinflated by other guys who appear later in the story. That's like saying Crocodile is the weakest Warlord because he is the first one to get defeated by Luffy while dudes like Moria exist lol.

If I have to pick between Rinko, Chougaryuu, Jyoukaryuu and Suicidal Earl Shi in strength, I would definitely picked Rinko.

Bakuya Kouyoku can't replicate the same feats as Rinko against Shin and Ouhon even if Coalition versions are "stronger" than their Sanyou versions. We're talking about a guy who bypassed a Six Great General's defense, land a hit on him and probably left a scar and lived to tell another day. Can't say the same for Kouyoku against Ouki's defense though.

In conclusion, Rinko >~ Bakuya Kouyoku > Base Kouyoku ~ Shin ~ Ouhon > Mouten > Hakurei.
 
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