Controversial We need to talk about ACoC
- Thread starter Definitivo
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What's interesting is you could argue that what Gaban wanted to confirm was not Luffy's Gear 5 but Luffy's AdCoC and it was confirmed offscreen there..
That's not Gaban's named attack, it's a retaliation after the fact.. Which may have been more than one retaliation, i don't know..
But the question is then, why Gaban wanted to verify Luffy's AdCoC?.. Either he knows of it and how powerful that ability is, or he also has it..
I think Gaban wouldn't have let Luffy free Loki if Luffy didn't have AdCoC.. The test was all about figuring if Luffy had AdCoC and that was offscreened of course..
That's not Gaban's named attack, it's a retaliation after the fact.. Which may have been more than one retaliation, i don't know..
But the question is then, why Gaban wanted to verify Luffy's AdCoC?.. Either he knows of it and how powerful that ability is, or he also has it..
I think Gaban wouldn't have let Luffy free Loki if Luffy didn't have AdCoC.. The test was all about figuring if Luffy had AdCoC and that was offscreened of course..
I think Oda had adv CoC in mind since Katakuri vs Luffy.
Remember, unlike the usually CoC clashes(Doflamingo vs Luffy or Don vs Luffy), Katakuri had Luffy used CoC without touching:
The only characters who show something like that are Yonkou, Roger vs Whitebeard...
I think Katakuri indeed has adv CoC, but just at lowest lvl, a reason why he only could coat few of his attacks in CoC.
As example when he was in rage or when he used awakening power mochi for the first time.
The reason why Zangari mochi had so much lightning was because Katakuri probably used all his CoC in that move.
The next time we see Katakuri(as @Kurozumi Wiwi said) gonna have adv CoC too.
Now I agree with the thread thought, it is very hard to see which character has adv CoC or not.
I think these which have a shockwave also in the attack(Garp,Kuzan,Big Mom) are clearly adv CoC users.
Remember, unlike the usually CoC clashes(Doflamingo vs Luffy or Don vs Luffy), Katakuri had Luffy used CoC without touching:
The only characters who show something like that are Yonkou, Roger vs Whitebeard...
I think Katakuri indeed has adv CoC, but just at lowest lvl, a reason why he only could coat few of his attacks in CoC.
As example when he was in rage or when he used awakening power mochi for the first time.
The reason why Zangari mochi had so much lightning was because Katakuri probably used all his CoC in that move.
The next time we see Katakuri(as @Kurozumi Wiwi said) gonna have adv CoC too.
Now I agree with the thread thought, it is very hard to see which character has adv CoC or not.
I think these which have a shockwave also in the attack(Garp,Kuzan,Big Mom) are clearly adv CoC users.
This is untrue. Yamato exists as proof that you can have AdvCoC without having AdvCoA
in fact Kaido himself never once uses AdvCoA. Neither does Big mom… Kaido even describes the scabbard’s use of AdvCoA as “Oden’s Ryuo”… Kaido almost associates AdvCoA with Oden, like before the rooftop he’d never actually fought anyone who uses AdvCoA besides Oden
in fact Kaido himself never once uses AdvCoA. Neither does Big mom… Kaido even describes the scabbard’s use of AdvCoA as “Oden’s Ryuo”… Kaido almost associates AdvCoA with Oden, like before the rooftop he’d never actually fought anyone who uses AdvCoA besides Oden
I think Oda had adv CoC in mind since Katakuri vs Luffy.
Remember, unlike the usually CoC clashes(Doflamingo vs Luffy or Don vs Luffy), Katakuri had Luffy used CoC without touching:
The only characters who show something like that are Yonkou, Roger vs Whitebeard...
I think Katakuri indeed has adv CoC, but just at lowest lvl, a reason why he only could coat few of his attacks in CoC.
As example when he was in rage or when he used awakening power mochi for the first time.
The reason why Zangari mochi had so much lightning was because Katakuri probably used all his CoC in that move.
The next time we see Katakuri(as @Kurozumi Wiwi said) gonna have adv CoC too.
Now I agree with the thread thought, it is very hard to see which character has adv CoC or not.
I think these which have a shockwave also in the attack(Garp,Kuzan,Big Mom) are clearly adv CoC users.
Remember, unlike the usually CoC clashes(Doflamingo vs Luffy or Don vs Luffy), Katakuri had Luffy used CoC without touching:
The only characters who show something like that are Yonkou, Roger vs Whitebeard...
I think Katakuri indeed has adv CoC, but just at lowest lvl, a reason why he only could coat few of his attacks in CoC.
As example when he was in rage or when he used awakening power mochi for the first time.
The reason why Zangari mochi had so much lightning was because Katakuri probably used all his CoC in that move.
The next time we see Katakuri(as @Kurozumi Wiwi said) gonna have adv CoC too.
Now I agree with the thread thought, it is very hard to see which character has adv CoC or not.
I think these which have a shockwave also in the attack(Garp,Kuzan,Big Mom) are clearly adv CoC users.
Garp may have not coated his attack with CoC but he definitely used CoC
Linlin has adcoc. She clearly was shown using it just luffy does
Even people around were foaming out
I'm starting to believe Oda completely made up aCOC on the spot during Wano because he knew Luffy spending 2 weeks improving his COA wouldn't be enough of a justification for him to go from being unable to hurt Kaido at all to defeating him.
In the very arc Oda introduced, he was unable to stay consistent.
We were first led "no touching" was an aspect of aCOC yet we have dozen of scenes of Kaido and Luffy using it while directly touching each other just in their fight.
Then reread Luffy vs Katakuri, the haki lightning flow like aCOC and you even got zap zap sfx even though obviously neither of them used it
In the very arc Oda introduced, he was unable to stay consistent.
We were first led "no touching" was an aspect of aCOC yet we have dozen of scenes of Kaido and Luffy using it while directly touching each other just in their fight.
Then reread Luffy vs Katakuri, the haki lightning flow like aCOC and you even got zap zap sfx even though obviously neither of them used it
What if Katakuri just has ACoC? He is a confirmed CoC user. He has some form of powerful CoA(a prerequisite of ACoC). And he spent decades with Big Mom, an ACoC user who should have been able to guide Kata on how to access ACoC.
This coupled with the fact that we have seen 1 billion berry YC1s with ACoC(Zoro), means that there's no real reason why Kata couldn't have ACoC except for people's perception of his powerlevel on account of him losing to Luffy.
But we know that Luffy often wins fights due to plot. Crocodile was far stronger than him and Luffy won anyways. Same with kaido. So why couldn't Kata's loss to Luffy be along the same lines as those fights? Kata held back and didn't use ACoC until the very end because he underestimated Luffy, he wanted Luffy to escape, or some other bullshit.
I think the best way for Oda to end the ACoC/ACoA debate is for him to just say that most characters who use black lightning are ACoC users unless the lightning is DF related(Teach, Fuji, etc.)
Koby, Katakuri, Ulti, all of them.
Haki is just an ability. Just because the yonko have ACoC and are busted doesn't mean everyone who has ACoC needs to be busted. We know for a fact that base Luffy is trash and any top tier could beat his ass. ACoC doesn't make that big of a difference, which is why Oda needed to give him G5.
The scabbards have ACoA, which 1.5 billion berry Luffy didnt have. And yet they have worse portrayal and feats than Law, who just has a strong DF. Why can't the same be true for ACoC?
Really the only CoC abilities that are put on a pedestal are the no touch punch and the sky split. Coating in of itself might not necessarily be that special. Kaido said only the strongest can do it, but "the strongest" is a relative phrase. And who's to say he's even telling the truth. Kizaru said Mythic zoans are rarer than logia but evidently they clearly aren't.
Koby, Katakuri, Ulti, all of them.
Haki is just an ability. Just because the yonko have ACoC and are busted doesn't mean everyone who has ACoC needs to be busted. We know for a fact that base Luffy is trash and any top tier could beat his ass. ACoC doesn't make that big of a difference, which is why Oda needed to give him G5.
The scabbards have ACoA, which 1.5 billion berry Luffy didnt have. And yet they have worse portrayal and feats than Law, who just has a strong DF. Why can't the same be true for ACoC?
Really the only CoC abilities that are put on a pedestal are the no touch punch and the sky split. Coating in of itself might not necessarily be that special. Kaido said only the strongest can do it, but "the strongest" is a relative phrase. And who's to say he's even telling the truth. Kizaru said Mythic zoans are rarer than logia but evidently they clearly aren't.
Come on: There’s no Conqueror’s Haki clash here unless, of course, both are coating their attacks with it. So why all this exaggeration in the panel? Why such an absurd amount of lightning for just Armament vs. Armament? It doesn’t make sense.
But it is stated that there was a collision of Haki from the King, but how the hell was there a collision between Haki here and it was the King's Haki?
The answer according to the panel is that Doffy coated his foot with Coc.
But it is stated that there was a collision of Haki from the King, but how the hell was there a collision between Haki here and it was the King's Haki?
The answer according to the panel is that Doffy coated his foot with Coc.
Oda made ACoC up for Roger vs. Whitebeard, and it's clear he still has no fucking idea what to do with it.
That's clearly CoC coming out of their CoA attack though. The only thing "ACoC" did was the "engulfing" part which even Kinemon can do.
Oda will retcon all this shit going forwards. He just hadn't created it back then.
Come on: There’s no Conqueror’s Haki clash here unless, of course, both are coating their attacks with it. So why all this exaggeration in the panel? Why such an absurd amount of lightning for just Armament vs. Armament? It doesn’t make sense.
But it is stated that there was a collision of Haki from the King, but how the hell was there a collision between Haki here and it was the King's Haki?
The answer according to the panel is that Doffy coated his foot with Coc.
But it is stated that there was a collision of Haki from the King, but how the hell was there a collision between Haki here and it was the King's Haki?
The answer according to the panel is that Doffy coated his foot with Coc.
Oda will retcon all this shit going forwards. He just hadn't created it back then.
