General & Others What would increase tension in Wano now?

Which option is best (no deaths)


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#1
I'm not one to complain because there are certain things to be expected for One Piece, but I can honestly say that I am simply not feeling the tension that previous arcs have generated even as recently as WCI. This is still One Piece, so for those jumping to "more deaths" lets leave that out for now because it's just not happening and that should be accepted by now.

I don't think I could make such a claim lightly so I actually tried to understand why this is the case and possible differences that could account for it. You can simply answer the poll or provide your own ideas on what could increase tension at this point because I want to go into depth a little bit:

Pacing: I believe this is probably the biggest issue at this point. There is still a lot of set up going on at this point that I just don't believe is necessary. I think everyone understood that Oda was dragging things a bit for chapter 1000 but it doesn't look like it's going to be particularly better afterwards. Generating tension is a fine balance between having things that the audience already expect to happen 100% offset by the execution or journey in getting to that point. We know no Strawhat is actually going to be taken out before their big fight, so of course Sanji is going to be freed or Usopp & Nami are going to escape the Tobi Roppo. The latter is arguably done better than the former because we get Tama coming in for the save much sooner than Sanji's eventual rescue for the former.

Those particular examples have already been talked to death, so I actually want to use one from previous arcs. At the Tea Party we knew that Germa wasn't actually going to be killed and the situation is resolved quickly AND they go right into action right after. The main point is that there is no reason to drag out a forgone conclusion.

Enemies: Directly displaying that the enemy maintains the upper hand is better than abstract comparisons of numbers. Part of developing tension is showcasing the strength of the antagonists in an efficient manner. At the Tea Party even when Big Mom was made vulnerable with the picture being broken Caesar's weapons were useless and she was still shown as a threat, taking out their escape route (mirror) even in that state). Katakuri & Perospero were immediately able to immobilize Big Father and the former created mochi ear muffs to put his siblings back in the game quickly. Germa 66 that was saved was still mostly taken out shortly after and there was a sense that escape was not possible even though it was inevitable. Besides that, all the major enemy fighters (except Compote who may as well be a figment of my imagination) put in work as well.
In comparison to Onigashima you have things like King & Queen just standing around for a while, the Tobi Roppo having a vibing session/tied to a tree/being ignored by a cosplayer/planning to betray & being betrayed by each other. Jack, dragdown though he may be actually tried to do something even though his temporary clapping was also inevitable.

That's another thing. Oda was trying to have his cake and eat it too in that scenario, having the Minks get a measure of revenge against Jack but not wanting to take him out there and there so that he could still return later, but that is another move that just kills the threat meant to exist. It's actually a bit cruel for the poor dragdown but I'm not complaining.

Big Mom got a lot of bad press from it, but having her get hit in the face by a bike that's not hard to miss is also a bit...sad. Nobody expects the Strawhats to die and there will always be comedy moments, but having the 2nd main antagonist treated like that is a bit rough. She wasn't treated as such in the Tea Party which still had comedic moments and neither were prior antagonists that are not respected as much such as Moria treated that way either. There are better ways to set up comedic moments with the main antagonists while maintaining the threat of their presence. Kaido is treated a bit better but still spends too long getting knocked about by the Scabbards before their eventual beat down and spends quite a bit of time screaming in pain. It's similar to the Jack scenario where Oda tries to give the Scabbards a little bit of shine but would have been better off following the One Piece standard of the people the Strawhats are trying to help out trying and failing miserably (and quickly) like in Alabasta, Skypiea, Water 7, Thriller Bark, Impel Down, Dressrosa & WCI.

There are probably other things I can pinpoint but let's leave it at that for now.
 
#2
Any sort of unexpected loss from the Alliance's side can increase the tension.
Some matchups might be set, but we will have many surprise twists before the Arc concludes.
 
#3
In order of things I least to most agree with:

A rooftop Supernova is shown falling to the ground floor defeated:
Completely unnecessary. None of them are about to die, surely, and Oda has already clearly communicated to us that the supernova alone aren't going to be enough.

Tama gets kidnapped by a Tobi Roppo
She hasn't been enough of a help yet for that to be tactically terrifying, and we know that she isn't about to die, so that would just feel like a waste.

The Numbers take out the Gifters turned by dango
Same as above, but since it would also slightly hype the remaining numbers, I guess it's preferable.

Calamities take out Marco
I think that it's been throughly signaled to us already that this will eventually happen. No way Marco defeats the two most built up Enemy Commanders at once. That said, this development happening now rather than later would be a bit scary.

3rd Party shows up and starts taking out both Strawhat alliance & Yonkou members
I think that this would be going too far into the "random occurrence" direction. If this happens, why wouldn't we assume that a friendly group will show up 3 chapters later? That said, the tension of "will Wano actually be a good arc?" would be through the roof after that.

Big Mom Pirates somehow make it and start taking out key alliance fighters
This is a rather hilariously unrealistic possibility thanks to Onigashima's floating in the air, but it's still less random than the previous possibility, so I'd still say that its better. That said, that possibility actually makes me rather hopeful given the inevitability that the Big Mom Pirates betray the Beast Pirates. Overall, that development might feasibly benefit the alliance more than the Yonko.

A strawhat is actually defeated (no win at all for them)
Personally, I consider this to be a rather obvious development for the sake of increasing tension. If the strawhats suddenly start a trend of losing against the Beast Pirates at the final points of their battles, all of the rest of the fights during the arc will start to feel up in the air. It's not like this development would feel overdone, given how rare of a concept a straw hat loss truly is. Especially a straw hat loss that isn't played off as a joke and isn't automatic.
As for the tension with the strawhats getting captured rather than killed, that's where the Beast Pirate's habit of taking hostages comes in. Losing even one character might feasibly start a cascade of hopeless choices for the alliance members to go through, yet it might not be unrecoverable; merely deeply disturbing towards the plot, and that, if anything, would add even more tension.
 
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#4
You forget that Kaido is lifting Onigashima in the sky and heading towards the flower capital Wano, act.3 will end with the deaths of many people there
 
S
#5
oda says wano gonna be cute compared to marine Ford which had two major deaths, how can you say there is no way someone dies ?

the raid most likely gonna fail a failure we have never seen before, ever. I am talking about each last one of this alliance getting taken out by their opponents... really, nami and ussop vs ulti ? Carrot vs Perospero ? Franky vs sasaki ? 3 captains with 2 followers vs 2 yonko ? Do not make me laugh

btw, really like your idea of numbers taking out the grifters
 
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#7
the raid most likely gonna fail a failure we have never seen before, ever.
I've always disagreed with this.
There is no recourse for the Strawhats if the raid fails at the point. There's no way in hell that they can get off of Onigashima. As many strawhats might get captured as you can imagine, but the moment that the last one is caught, and the raid has officially failed, it's all going to be over. The Beast Pirates aren't about to let the Strawhats escape again. They're going to start straight up murdering their captives.
 
#8
oda says wano gonna be cute compared to marine Ford which had two major deaths, how can you say there is no way someone dies ?

the raid most likely gonna fail a failure we have never seen before, ever. I am talking about each last one of this alliance getting taken out by their opponents... really, nami and ussop vs ulti ? Carrot vs Perospero ? Franky vs sasaki ? 3 captains with 2 followers vs 2 yonko ? Do not make me laugh

btw, really like your idea of numbers taking out the grifters

hopefully soon:steef:


Who do you think is a realistic option to die in that case? Is anyone on the samurai or mink or pirate side going to be even the least bit impactful? I don't think Wano is going to be anywhere near Marineford in that aspect. I think it is unrealistic to expect it to be as pivotal as Marineford that concluded the first half of the entire series. Wano is a midstream story in comparison.

Is there someone whose death wouldn't hamper a huge party happening after Wano (which is all but inevitable)?
 
#10
Is there someone whose death wouldn't hamper a huge party happening after Wano (which is all but inevitable)?
Yamato's might not hamper it that much, and it would leave the fandom miserable as well, thus completing Oda's requirement for deaths to hold great impact.
Hyo's death wouldn't be too unexpected.
About 50% of the scabbards are disposable if we think of them under those grounds, and the other 50% aren't so vital as to ruin the mood for everyone.
Jinbei might feasibly die for the cause.
I could envision a world where Momonosuke dies as well.
The Kidd Pirates getting slaughtered would be a waste, but might happen for stakes and those partying wouldn't miss him.
 
#12
Who do you think is a realistic option to die in that case? Is anyone on the samurai or mink or pirate side going to be even the least bit impactful? I don't think Wano is going to be anywhere near Marineford in that aspect. I think it is unrealistic to expect it to be as pivotal as Marineford that concluded the first half of the entire series. Wano is a midstream story in comparison.

Is there someone whose death wouldn't hamper a huge party happening after Wano (which is all but inevitable)?
Garp... said it like 1000 times but to me he makes the most sense, check my older threads for that where I go in detail about it

Garp also is just the perfect death; on one side he is someone dear to luffy just like ace was , and on the other he is an old generation legend just like whitebeard

wano build up goes all the way back to TB where we first hear about kaido and big mom... it’s must payoff

about the party, yeah I guess a party must happen knowing oda even though WCI didn’t have one ...anyways that doesn’t mean there can’t be drama and death you know . Garp death won’t affect Luffy as much ace did, I would think he had character development. Also the death and drama will be in act 4 not 5 which is supposed to be the conclusion
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Yamato's might not hamper it that much, and it would leave the fandom miserable as well, thus completing Oda's requirement for deaths to hold great impact.
Hyo's death wouldn't be too unexpected.
About 50% of the scabbards are disposable if we think of them under those grounds, and the other 50% aren't so vital as to ruin the mood for everyone.
Jinbei might feasibly die for the cause.
I could envision a world where Momonosuke dies as well.
The Kidd Pirates getting slaughtered would be a waste, but might happen for stakes and those partying wouldn't miss him.
I don’t think Yamato and samurai etc will have an impact on the fandom and Luffy specifically as ace did so I would say nah... Yamato is probably joining anyways, can’t see why she dies
 
#13
The biggest BIGGEST difference between this arc and other battle arcs is there is no central goal

like we know everyone is fighting to free Wano but what exactly has to happen to free Wano? Beat the Beast pirates right? Well how do we do that? Just beat the beast pirates of course.

See that’s the problem. The goal of the arc has been spread way too thin. It’s just “beat the beast pirates”. Therefore the tension has been spread so thin with this nebulous task to the point that progress towards this goal is literally happening offscreen.

CP-0 just randomly tells us that the Alliance is winning OFFSCREEN. we don’t actually see why the alliance is winning. We don’t see any special tactics in use or anything. They are just winning because... All the character we are actually focused on have not won a single fight. Even ridiculous fights like Zoro and Drake vs Apoo have not ended since Zoro bailed and Drake still hasn’t put this man down.

This is what kills the tension. The goal is so widespread that it is being achieved OFF SCREEN. Therefore we have no engagement whatsoever regarding whether we are doing well or badly. All the fights we are currently in seem to be stalemates except the roof fight which has the problem of being TOO one sided that once again we don’t even know what we are doing on the roof. There are characters who are on the roof who are barely doing anything at all.

This battle needed a better a goal. A more straightforward central goal that everyone can easily strive for. The route of making the goal just “beat everyone” only works when we care about EVERYONE fighting. And an easy way to make us care about fodder fighting is giving them tactical battles that matter and happen ON SCREEN. For example if this was Lord of the Ring, we would see the entire battle centered around those fodder and the tactics deployed so that we can measure the progress of the battle on how effective the number are.

Instead what we got was mentions of how well the alliance is doing OFF SCREEN yet we are supposed to care because the entire point of the battle is “beating everyone”
 
#14
I don’t think Yamato and samurai etc will have an impact on the fandom
If done correctly, the Samurai might.
Yamato almost certainly would.
and Luffy specifically as ace did
so I would say nah...
If there was that much of an impact, there would be no happy end to the arc at all. You forget that Ace's death made Luffy outright suicidal.

To achieve that, maybe Nami should die.
Yamato is probably joining anyways, can’t see why she dies
I want her to join more than anything myself, but if we're talking about impact, Kaido offing his own daughter in front of the Strawhats would be a real Earthshattering twist.
 
#15
There are probably other thing
@BlackLegFring The weird thing is that there is a very BIG thing that can shift the tension of the arc INSTANTLY if anyone cares about it

It’s Onigashima flying. This SHOULD be a bigger deal than it seems to be. In fact I originally thought this was the new “Birdcage” of the arc which would be the driving tension of the entire arc that forces the goals of everyone involved to change to meet it.

Like why doesn’t the alliance care about this? Like when they beat everyone, then what? They’ll all just die when Onigashima falls and kills a bunch of Wano citizens as well.

It’s so strange how no one cares about this. It’s not even a background thing anymore. Like we don’t even see Parts of Onigashima trembling or breaking apart because of seismic activity or all the many other things that would happen to remind the readers that “Oh yeah, everyone is on a death trap”

I have this feeling that Oda wants the readers to forget that this is happening for some reason so that he springs it as a surprise or something later on but the problem is it now makes no sense why none of the characters acknowledge this is happening.

This could’ve been the primary source of tension with the smarter alliance members maybe trying to find a way to stop the island or some general sense of dread at least coming from this but nah.

I have this suspicion that only two things are possible with this flying island.
1. Oda doesn’t want the characters to waste time trying to find a way to stop the island because Oda wants the island to fall so it’s a waste of panels to make the characters do something that would not work in the end

2. Oda wants a last minute Deus Ex machina to save everyone as a twist so he is making sure the readers forget this is even happening

Either way, this is a humongous wasted opportunity to increase the tension. When no one cares that they are on a death trap then it might as well not even be a plot point at all. It’s just background noise now
 
#16
Realistically, SWORD arriving... Would that make CP0 care and start siding with a faction temporarily?

Arrival of Germa and Bege as well but it's obvious who will they eventually side with...
 
#17
The weird thing is that there is a very BIG thing that can shift the tension of the arc INSTANTLY if anyone cares about it

It’s Onigashima flying. This SHOULD be a bigger deal than it seems to be. In fact I originally thought this was the new “Birdcage” of the arc which would be the driving tension of the entire arc that forces the goals of everyone involved to change to meet it.

Like why doesn’t the alliance care about this?
Only Yamato has really noticed so far.
Like when they beat everyone, then what? They’ll all just die when Onigashima falls and kills a bunch of Wano citizens as well.
If they're still over the sea, it might still be fine.

It’s so strange how no one cares about this.
Not many have noticed it. Literally nobody in the alliance can do anything about it either, reasonably.
It’s not even a background thing anymore. Like we don’t even see Parts of Onigashima trembling or breaking apart because of seismic activity or all the many other things that would happen to remind the readers that “Oh yeah, everyone is on a death trap”
Oda has a lot to get to, and such activity would take a double page spread to properly illustrate anyway, and wouldn't be the sort of thing to get resolved for at least a dozen chapters anyway.
Remember how boring shots of the birdcage got?
I have this feeling that Oda wants the readers to forget that this is happening for some reason so that he springs it as a surprise or something later on
Yeah; and I suspect it will be a great moment. A real arc turning point.
but the problem is it now makes no sense why none of the characters acknowledge this is happening.
Everybody is either indoors or occupied and without a good vantage point. And clearly Kaido is good at what he does.

This could’ve been the primary source of tension with the smarter alliance members maybe trying to find a way to stop the island or some general sense of dread at least coming from this but nah.
Theres still plenty of dread to come from the fighting matchups.
 
#18
Theres still plenty of dread to come from the fighting matchups.
Not really. Here is why
The biggest BIGGEST difference between this arc and other battle arcs is there is no central goal

like we know everyone is fighting to free Wano but what exactly has to happen to free Wano? Beat the Beast pirates right? Well how do we do that? Just beat the beast pirates of course.

See that’s the problem. The goal of the arc has been spread way too thin. It’s just “beat the beast pirates”. Therefore the tension has been spread so thin with this nebulous task to the point that progress towards this goal is literally happening offscreen.

CP-0 just randomly tells us that the Alliance is winning OFFSCREEN. we don’t actually see why the alliance is winning. We don’t see any special tactics in use or anything. They are just winning because... All the character we are actually focused on have not won a single fight. Even ridiculous fights like Zoro and Drake vs Apoo have not ended since Zoro bailed and Drake still hasn’t put this man down.

This is what kills the tension. The goal is so widespread that it is being achieved OFF SCREEN. Therefore we have no engagement whatsoever regarding whether we are doing well or badly. All the fights we are currently in seem to be stalemates except the roof fight which has the problem of being TOO one sided that once again we don’t even know what we are doing on the roof. There are characters who are on the roof who are barely doing anything at all.

This battle needed a better a goal. A more straightforward central goal that everyone can easily strive for. The route of making the goal just “beat everyone” only works when we care about EVERYONE fighting. And an easy way to make us care about fodder fighting is giving them tactical battles that matter and happen ON SCREEN. For example if this was Lord of the Ring, we would see the entire battle centered around those fodder and the tactics deployed so that we can measure the progress of the battle on how effective the number are.

Instead what we got was mentions of how well the alliance is doing OFF SCREEN yet we are supposed to care because the entire point of the battle is “beating everyone”
Basically, the fact that there isn’t any unifying goal in this fight destroys the tension of the story... Onigashima flying would’ve been the clear unifying goal of the entire fight but nope, no one cares... Also everyone knows what’s happening. They discuss it plainly in front of the alliance members



The reason you forgot that everyone knows the island is flying is BECAUSE NO ONE CARES... These three random goons are literally the only people shown to care about this

That’s the problem

And no, the island being on top of the water won’t fix anything. Do you know how mega tsunamis that hit Japan are formed? Mega tsunamis are formed when pieces of unstable islands fall into the ocean and create tidal waves... A PIECE of an island causes a MEGA tsunami when it just crumbles into the Ocean... What would happen if an island just falls straight from the atmosphere into the water?

No dude, this is a bad situation no matter what and Oda is wasting it
 
#19
Not really. Here is why

Basically, the fact that there isn’t any unifying goal in this fight destroys the tension of the story...
No; I already read that.
My thoughts on it were basically: we're still too early in the arc to have a "Birdcage" type threat looming over our character's actions. When that sort of thing was done best, it was alabasta and all of the enemies were already defeated save for crocodile.

Onigashima flying would’ve been the clear unifying goal of the entire fight but nope, no one cares... Also everyone knows what’s happening. They discuss it plainly in front of the alliance members
Do we really think that the present strawhats, who are all fighting an entire room of infected fodder and are already injured, were honestly going to notice and think through the implications of three random fodder's words? None of the straw hat even slightly acknowledged it, for even the barest panel, so clearly none of them know.

And no, the island being on top of the water won’t fix anything. Do you know how mega tsunamis that hit Japan are formed? Mega tsunamis are formed when pieces of unstable islands fall into the ocean and create tidal waves... A PIECE of an island causes a MEGA tsunami when it just crumbles into the Ocean... What would happen if an island just falls straight from the atmosphere into the water?
In that case, mega Tsunamis have already been formed just from the back-splash of Onigashima lifting up.

Whatever the case, Wano's sea is already horribly violent; even atop the waterfall. Literally The first thing the strawhats encountered there was a giant Whirlpool, and the backside of Oniashima has such violent water that even One Piece ships cant sail in it.

Somehow, I don't think that a Megatsunami will be given the same gravity here that it would in IRL Japan.
 
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