Multiverse General Who are the better characters: 7 Warlords or Akatsuki
- Thread starter Adeer Ruckus
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Lmao Oda dedicated like 1 panel to showing that Moria was traumatized by losing his crew. How is that better written than the trauma Sasori experienced from losing his parents?
Erkan logic: 5 characters eating food at a table and not even saying a single word is the pinnacle of character writing because BB was among them
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Erkan logic: 5 characters eating food at a table and not even saying a single word is the pinnacle of character writing because BB was among them
C
Akatsuki is the best villain group in shonen, pain is the undisputed best shonen villain inside a show with several great villains.
Oda NEVER wrote anything with the amount of depth like naruto vs pain fight.
A conflict of ideologies, experiences, ideas and opinions on the world should function, never saw any other shonen show with such a well built conflict like this.
Unfortunately, kishimoto threw it all in the trashcan when he decided to ressurect everyone.
Oda NEVER wrote anything with the amount of depth like naruto vs pain fight.
A conflict of ideologies, experiences, ideas and opinions on the world should function, never saw any other shonen show with such a well built conflict like this.
Unfortunately, kishimoto threw it all in the trashcan when he decided to ressurect everyone.
C
Such a load of bullshit lol, moria is an one dimensional character whose entire persona revolves around getting negged by kaido decades ago.
As a group they are mid, as individuals they are even worse.
Hancock served as a plot tool for luffy to know about ace's execution, jinbe backstory was as minimal as it gets, moria is one dimensional, mihawk's introduction contradicts his speeches and mainly his actions, crocodile was good on what he was supposed to, but nothing special.
Kuma has a tragic story and plot importance so i give him a pass.
Doflamingo is the most overrated character in one piece, both powerscalling and writing.
One piece has many things over naruto, but villains and fight choreography are NOT included
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As a group they are mid, as individuals they are even worse.
Hancock served as a plot tool for luffy to know about ace's execution, jinbe backstory was as minimal as it gets, moria is one dimensional, mihawk's introduction contradicts his speeches and mainly his actions, crocodile was good on what he was supposed to, but nothing special.
Kuma has a tragic story and plot importance so i give him a pass.
Doflamingo is the most overrated character in one piece, both powerscalling and writing.
One piece has many things over naruto, but villains and fight choreography are NOT included
No shit that’s intentional that’s like saying Pain is 1 dimensional because his entire character revolves around losing his loved ones and village due to war. Moria is intentionally supposed to be a mirror to Luffy like most pirates in the story l. Now name more than 1 character trait of Kakuzu, Hidan, Deidara, or Kisame
the warlords aren’t a group tho. Doflamingo clears any Naruto villain, Crocodile has more aura on screen than any Naruto villain. Moria isn’t 1 dimensional. Mihawk hasn’t been explored but he still clears Kakuzu. Boa’s backstory easily catapults her above any Naruto female
No his whole character revolves around it and the one it’s implemented as a foil to Luffy leapfrogs anything Sasori has ever done.
The idea of crew is one of the most prominent themes of Thriller Bark in how it relates to the Strawhats, to Brook, and to Moria himself. It’s a very appropriate time in the series to tackle as a subject matter as this is where the Strawhats finally rounded themselves out with their full line-up as we would know them pre-skip. Luffy had spent the entire series thus far gradually building up his crew little by little, and this arc would be a celebration of them all at their fullest, even culminating in a grand team fight for the first time in the series.
Moria is one of the only villains in the series who is shown having a great degree of value and care for his crew, the first since Arlong who played a similar role for the East Blue portion of the manga, and that would be his underlying motivation for most of his actions taken in the series. Whereas most of the villains we had seen so far have threatened and attacked their subordinates, Moria treats them with great care, encourages their dreams, and invites them to celebrate his big moments with him. Hogback relationship seems the least personal and more business, but he and Absalom have both put their lives on the line in attempts to rescue each other from incredibly dangerous odds, and he spoiled Perona and raised her as his own. She is quick to set out to seas with tears in her eyes when she finds out he’s still alive.
This comradery he shares with them is evident in the crews very structure. Most crews are organized in a way where the captains are elevated from the rest of the pack; Doflamingo and the three Seats, Big Mom and the three Sweet Commanders, Whitebeard and the Sixteen Division Commanders, etc… but on Thriller Bark it’s just the Mysterious Four. This title lowers Moria off his pedestal while elevating his crew for being grouped alongside him, much like the Monster Trio terminology on the Strawhats, creating a stronger sense of unity rather than superiority.
As Luffy and Moria are both the same in terms of value and dependence on their crew, the conflict instead becomes one of leadership. Luffy is a headstrong captain who leads the crew from the forefront carving a path for them to follow; Moria used to be the same, but past experiences changed his outlook to becoming someone who leads from the shadows allowing the grunts to do the dirty work.
That leads to another theme with Moria’s crew, and that is one of shadows. It would be simple enough to point out that Moria is a shadow of his former self, but the theme runs quite a bit deeper than that. In essence, Moria represents a shadow of Luffy, and likewise the Mysterious Four all represent shadows of the Strawhats. Oda often uses contrast to sell an opponent, but this arc is all about similarities. This final obstacle for them pre-skip is essentially a battle for them to overcome dark corrupted versions of themselves, the Strawhats as they would be if they did not have their morals and heart to keep them better people.
Naturally, following the theme of the Thriller Bark Pirates being shadow counterparts to the Strawhats, this would make Gecko Moria the shadow counterpart of Luffy. Moria’s very first appearance is very on the nose about this as he wakes up from a four-day sleep and is told they prepared four days’ worth of food for the meals he missed out on, which is a gag pulled straight from Luffy’s own playbook. He would also go on to pilot a literal ancient giant version of Luffy for the main arc fight with their climactic showdown aptly being titled Luffy vs Luffy.
One might assume with Moria’s philosophy of having others do the heavy lifting and his crew being known to fight more through trickery, that Moria would be a cowardly or underhanded individual who would use any means to win a fight… yet that’s not the case. Moria has an immense amount of pride in himself and what he values as making a true pirate, which even reflect that of Luffy. The only time we see Moria truly enraged during Thriller Bark came not from the Strawhats actions, but Kuma offering his assistance to take him down. Moria may be dependent on others, but we see that only applies for those within his crew and he not relying on outsiders. Kuma’s support would have made them an insurmountable obstacle for the Strawhats, but he refused to violate the sanctity of the crew vs crew fight that he picked and took it as an insult insinuating that he might not be able to handle his problems on his own.
At the end of the arc when Oars had fallen, Moria had every chance to easily win that bout by escaping or even taking half the number of shadows, but Luffy had thrown down the gauntlet, so Moria’s pride had to answer by turning it into an all or nothing ordeal between the two. His philosophy that a true pirate’s resolve doesn’t waver in the face of death is the same mantra that Luffy stated and lived by as far back as Orange Town, and Moria has shown to put that money where his mouth is in his self-destructive last stand or his willingness to war with Blackbeard over his comrade, not unlike the lengths we've see Luffy go for his crew. His pride did him in, but he didn’t compromise his values.
Where Luffy and Moria did end up clashing outside of their approach to leadership is idealism vs cynicism. Luffy is somebody who is very empathetic and uplifts those around him, where Moria has no qualms trampling over others to further his goals towards Pirate King. When Moria and Luffy meet and interact, Moria almost treats it as though he’s coaching a greenhorn who reminds himself of the young upstart he once was, seeing him as inexperienced and naïve who acts the way he does because he hasn’t been woken up to the harsh realities of the world. Whereas Luffy sees Moria as a jaded man living a nightmare he wants no part of. Moria’s words all come from his own experience of course, to the brutal loss that he experienced in his own past.
Over the course of the arc we see a lot of commentary and parallels between the two captains and how Moria used to even be as headstrong and reckless as Luffy, which leads to the question on what happened that changed him. The Moria we see may have been a very tough competitor for the crew at the time, but it’s also made incredibly clear that what we are witnessing is just a shell of the man that he used to be. Moria stands not just as a dark reflection of Luffy but of the man he once used to be in the past.
This is very apparent just visually, the Moria we see in the past has a far more intimidating physique to him, a strong jaw and athletic physique making him look like a beastly fighter. Along with this, he is held with a great reputation of being a man tough enough to compete with the Emperors and fellow Warlord Doflamingo claiming that he lost too much power over the years to retain his post as part of the organization. He looks very much like one of the bad-future variants that Oda includes in an SBS, being a stark drop-off from who he was in the past, and this was due to the loss of his original crew.
Moria is ultimately a tragic villain, the reasoning behind his actions in Thriller Bark and his self-destructive philosophies all stemmed from the PTSD of watching his loved ones killed off in a battle that he led them into. Moria spends Thriller Bark speaking of nightmares, yet he is the one who is constantly living with one and trying to project that onto others. He takes a hands off approach out of the guilt of recklessly leading his crew into a situation that they were not prepared for, and he created an army of undead soldiers just so that he would not have to experience the pain of losing his comrades again. The irony being that Moria is so afraid of loss that he has chosen to surround himself with death in order to escape from it.
When Moria breaks down and speaks of how Luffy is going to lose his crew, it’s not a speech he gives out of vindictiveness or malice, but a cautionary warning of him reflecting on his own pain and trauma from his own personal experiences. His expression is that of shellshock, he has never been able to truly move on from that trauma, because his crew was what he valued most. This theme of death in Thriller Bark would be a very important topic for this stage of the manga as the ominous warning would turn out to be a foreshadowing of the next few arcs, where we see that Moria was right on the money with his words.
Neither Luffy nor Moria are afraid of death for themselves, but the one thing they do fear is losing the people that they care about, the people that they will fight tooth and nail to protect. The arc following Thriller Bark, Luffy gets himself in over his head against an insurmountable enemy and his crew suffers a crushing defeat separating them over the seas, and not long after that he witnesses his brother die right in front of his eyes. These events drove Luffy into a suicidal frenzy where for the only time in the series he lost faith in his own power and declared he was too weak to become Pirate King, ready to give it all away and only stopping because Jinbe reminded him he still had his crew. Moria in many regards is a look at what Luffy could have easily become had his crew actually died there on Sabaody and he had no Jinbe in his corner to guide him back to the light, a man shaped by tragedy. Moria in that way is a reminder of the importance of Luffy's crew to him, the person that he risked becoming had Kuma not been there for him that day and Jinbe unable to pull him from the darkness.
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the warlords aren’t a group tho. Doflamingo clears any Naruto villain, Crocodile has more aura on screen than any Naruto villain. Moria isn’t 1 dimensional. Mihawk hasn’t been explored but he still clears Kakuzu. Boa’s backstory easily catapults her above any Naruto female
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No his whole character revolves around it and the one it’s implemented as a foil to Luffy leapfrogs anything Sasori has ever done.
The idea of crew is one of the most prominent themes of Thriller Bark in how it relates to the Strawhats, to Brook, and to Moria himself. It’s a very appropriate time in the series to tackle as a subject matter as this is where the Strawhats finally rounded themselves out with their full line-up as we would know them pre-skip. Luffy had spent the entire series thus far gradually building up his crew little by little, and this arc would be a celebration of them all at their fullest, even culminating in a grand team fight for the first time in the series.
Moria is one of the only villains in the series who is shown having a great degree of value and care for his crew, the first since Arlong who played a similar role for the East Blue portion of the manga, and that would be his underlying motivation for most of his actions taken in the series. Whereas most of the villains we had seen so far have threatened and attacked their subordinates, Moria treats them with great care, encourages their dreams, and invites them to celebrate his big moments with him. Hogback relationship seems the least personal and more business, but he and Absalom have both put their lives on the line in attempts to rescue each other from incredibly dangerous odds, and he spoiled Perona and raised her as his own. She is quick to set out to seas with tears in her eyes when she finds out he’s still alive.
This comradery he shares with them is evident in the crews very structure. Most crews are organized in a way where the captains are elevated from the rest of the pack; Doflamingo and the three Seats, Big Mom and the three Sweet Commanders, Whitebeard and the Sixteen Division Commanders, etc… but on Thriller Bark it’s just the Mysterious Four. This title lowers Moria off his pedestal while elevating his crew for being grouped alongside him, much like the Monster Trio terminology on the Strawhats, creating a stronger sense of unity rather than superiority.
As Luffy and Moria are both the same in terms of value and dependence on their crew, the conflict instead becomes one of leadership. Luffy is a headstrong captain who leads the crew from the forefront carving a path for them to follow; Moria used to be the same, but past experiences changed his outlook to becoming someone who leads from the shadows allowing the grunts to do the dirty work.
That leads to another theme with Moria’s crew, and that is one of shadows. It would be simple enough to point out that Moria is a shadow of his former self, but the theme runs quite a bit deeper than that. In essence, Moria represents a shadow of Luffy, and likewise the Mysterious Four all represent shadows of the Strawhats. Oda often uses contrast to sell an opponent, but this arc is all about similarities. This final obstacle for them pre-skip is essentially a battle for them to overcome dark corrupted versions of themselves, the Strawhats as they would be if they did not have their morals and heart to keep them better people.
Naturally, following the theme of the Thriller Bark Pirates being shadow counterparts to the Strawhats, this would make Gecko Moria the shadow counterpart of Luffy. Moria’s very first appearance is very on the nose about this as he wakes up from a four-day sleep and is told they prepared four days’ worth of food for the meals he missed out on, which is a gag pulled straight from Luffy’s own playbook. He would also go on to pilot a literal ancient giant version of Luffy for the main arc fight with their climactic showdown aptly being titled Luffy vs Luffy.
One might assume with Moria’s philosophy of having others do the heavy lifting and his crew being known to fight more through trickery, that Moria would be a cowardly or underhanded individual who would use any means to win a fight… yet that’s not the case. Moria has an immense amount of pride in himself and what he values as making a true pirate, which even reflect that of Luffy. The only time we see Moria truly enraged during Thriller Bark came not from the Strawhats actions, but Kuma offering his assistance to take him down. Moria may be dependent on others, but we see that only applies for those within his crew and he not relying on outsiders. Kuma’s support would have made them an insurmountable obstacle for the Strawhats, but he refused to violate the sanctity of the crew vs crew fight that he picked and took it as an insult insinuating that he might not be able to handle his problems on his own.
At the end of the arc when Oars had fallen, Moria had every chance to easily win that bout by escaping or even taking half the number of shadows, but Luffy had thrown down the gauntlet, so Moria’s pride had to answer by turning it into an all or nothing ordeal between the two. His philosophy that a true pirate’s resolve doesn’t waver in the face of death is the same mantra that Luffy stated and lived by as far back as Orange Town, and Moria has shown to put that money where his mouth is in his self-destructive last stand or his willingness to war with Blackbeard over his comrade, not unlike the lengths we've see Luffy go for his crew. His pride did him in, but he didn’t compromise his values.
Where Luffy and Moria did end up clashing outside of their approach to leadership is idealism vs cynicism. Luffy is somebody who is very empathetic and uplifts those around him, where Moria has no qualms trampling over others to further his goals towards Pirate King. When Moria and Luffy meet and interact, Moria almost treats it as though he’s coaching a greenhorn who reminds himself of the young upstart he once was, seeing him as inexperienced and naïve who acts the way he does because he hasn’t been woken up to the harsh realities of the world. Whereas Luffy sees Moria as a jaded man living a nightmare he wants no part of. Moria’s words all come from his own experience of course, to the brutal loss that he experienced in his own past.
Over the course of the arc we see a lot of commentary and parallels between the two captains and how Moria used to even be as headstrong and reckless as Luffy, which leads to the question on what happened that changed him. The Moria we see may have been a very tough competitor for the crew at the time, but it’s also made incredibly clear that what we are witnessing is just a shell of the man that he used to be. Moria stands not just as a dark reflection of Luffy but of the man he once used to be in the past.
This is very apparent just visually, the Moria we see in the past has a far more intimidating physique to him, a strong jaw and athletic physique making him look like a beastly fighter. Along with this, he is held with a great reputation of being a man tough enough to compete with the Emperors and fellow Warlord Doflamingo claiming that he lost too much power over the years to retain his post as part of the organization. He looks very much like one of the bad-future variants that Oda includes in an SBS, being a stark drop-off from who he was in the past, and this was due to the loss of his original crew.
Moria is ultimately a tragic villain, the reasoning behind his actions in Thriller Bark and his self-destructive philosophies all stemmed from the PTSD of watching his loved ones killed off in a battle that he led them into. Moria spends Thriller Bark speaking of nightmares, yet he is the one who is constantly living with one and trying to project that onto others. He takes a hands off approach out of the guilt of recklessly leading his crew into a situation that they were not prepared for, and he created an army of undead soldiers just so that he would not have to experience the pain of losing his comrades again. The irony being that Moria is so afraid of loss that he has chosen to surround himself with death in order to escape from it.
When Moria breaks down and speaks of how Luffy is going to lose his crew, it’s not a speech he gives out of vindictiveness or malice, but a cautionary warning of him reflecting on his own pain and trauma from his own personal experiences. His expression is that of shellshock, he has never been able to truly move on from that trauma, because his crew was what he valued most. This theme of death in Thriller Bark would be a very important topic for this stage of the manga as the ominous warning would turn out to be a foreshadowing of the next few arcs, where we see that Moria was right on the money with his words.
Neither Luffy nor Moria are afraid of death for themselves, but the one thing they do fear is losing the people that they care about, the people that they will fight tooth and nail to protect. The arc following Thriller Bark, Luffy gets himself in over his head against an insurmountable enemy and his crew suffers a crushing defeat separating them over the seas, and not long after that he witnesses his brother die right in front of his eyes. These events drove Luffy into a suicidal frenzy where for the only time in the series he lost faith in his own power and declared he was too weak to become Pirate King, ready to give it all away and only stopping because Jinbe reminded him he still had his crew. Moria in many regards is a look at what Luffy could have easily become had his crew actually died there on Sabaody and he had no Jinbe in his corner to guide him back to the light, a man shaped by tragedy. Moria in that way is a reminder of the importance of Luffy's crew to him, the person that he risked becoming had Kuma not been there for him that day and Jinbe unable to pull him from the darkness.
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