Speculations Who will betray Kaido and Orochi and who betray BM in this arc?

A

ardym

#1
#1
in chapter 801 we got epic Doffy speech , and he questioned "who will aid whom? and who will betray whom?" BM got already betrayed by the fire tank pirates and the sun pirates , especially two daughters and Pekoms as well , but again Katakuri and Pudding as well to some extent as well.
well and the again who betray Kaido obviously the supernova Apo and X-Drake and maybe hawkins as well if he is able to go there as well.
and Orochi will be obviously betrayed by Kyoshiro.
that all makes much sense , but could it be other betrayals that really weakened those 2 yonkos ? like commanders?
for BM my bet is on Katakuri , he really respected Luffy and in someway he begged him indirectly to defeat his mom and now he will know that BM is allied to Kaido , and that both of them are after Luffy . the man he really respects and Luffy covering his mouth with his extra hat was epic and symbolic.
would his respect to Luffy turns to loyalty ? that is after all Luffy's power , and he for sure would have pudding on his side , and maybe many of his siblings respects him too much.
just imagine this scenario BM really captured the Vinsmokes and Jinbe , and after her alliance with Kaido she called Katakuri to get a fleet and and come to this festivals as well , Katakuri could agree but instead releases the Vinsmokes , Jinbe and recruit his siblings and comes to Luffy's aid , he obviously can use the Germa ships and takes everyone with him and they can enter Wano legally.
so in a way WCI would have much relevance as it had before , till now i really had the feeling, that Oda wasted so many chapters for some irrelevant plot.
Oda made everyone likes Katakuri , the question is would be has Katakuri's story really ended? or he will ally himself with Luffy and help taking the 2 Yonkos .
till now i cannot see that any of Kaido's commanders is really that good to betray Kaido , but if there is the slightest chance it will be Queen since Luffy stated : "you are actually a good guy" that could have meaning as well , i know Luffy sometime talks nonsense but till now the people he stated to be good turn to be really good or redeemable.
well it seems obvious that Marco and maybe some of WBP will come as well.
wanna see those fights:
Luffy , Kid and Law vs Kaido
Katakuri , Marco and Queen vs BM

the WG is gonna get the biggest shock after Wano and such plot has really potential , the WG would never expect that Katakuri will betray his mom and help the one who defeated him.
I really see the WG shares Akainu's opinion to not interefere with Kaido and BM for now , since if the marines go there they will just know that WG not really that good either and that they have their deals with Kaido and Orochi. and anyway the marines cannot send a force that would be really a problem for the 2 yonkos now since they have some stuff to deal with.
 
DarkWitch

DarkWitch

‎
#2
#2
Katakuri is not going to betray Big Mom, he's far too loyal to his family and crew. Just because he now respects Luffy doesn't mean he's going to betray Big Mom. Also Katakuri didn't even come to Wano with the others, he's back at Totto Land protecting the place. Either Kaido will betray Big Mom or Big Mom will betray Kaido or they will both betray each other, Kyoshiro will obviously betray Orochi. X Drake will definitely betray Kaido especially since he's undercover for the Marines, Hawkins it really depends on his cards, and as for Apoo he will probably betray Kaido if he sees the protagonist side getting the upper edge on the antagonist side.
 
A

ardym

#3
#3
DarkWitch said:
Katakuri is not going to betray Big Mom, he's far too loyal to his family and crew. Just because he now respects Luffy doesn't mean he's going to betray Big Mom. Also Katakuri didn't even come to Wano with the others, he's back at Totto Land protecting the place. Either Kaido will betray Big Mom or Big Mom will betray Kaido or they will both betray each other, Kyoshiro will obviously betray Orochi. X Drake will definitely betray Kaido especially since he's undercover for the Marines, Hawkins it really depends on his cards, and as for Apoo he will probably betray Kaido if he sees the protagonist side getting the upper edge on the antagonist side.
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as BM and Kaido announce their alliance there was more than week time left to the battle
 
A

ardym

#7
#7
DarkWitch said:
What?
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do you think anyone will attack WCI when he knows that is now a territory of the pirate alliance between Kaido and BM?
but rereading the chapter it seems that alliance was formed only 5 days before the final battle , so it might sill be possible for the BMPs to arrive since it took luffy only about or 2 days to arrive to Wano the same for BM but it would be about impossible for the marines.
it seem that Wano is only 1 or 2 days away from WCI
 
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DarkWitch

DarkWitch

‎
#8
#8
ardym said:
do you think anyone will attack WCI when he knows that is now a territory of the pirate alliance between Kaido and BM?
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Leaving a Yonko's territory like Totto Land unprotected is fucking stupid, even if Kaido and Big Mom are allied with each other. You also have to realize that other strong pirates such as the Blackbeard Pirates might try to enter Totto Land that's another reason why Katakuri along with Cracker and others have to stay behind, just because Kaido and Big Mom are now allies doesn't mean Katakuri and the others will leave Totto Land especially since they don't know how long the alliance might even last. I'm pretty sure before Big Mom came to Wano she chose which subordinates would join her to Wano, and which ones would stay behind at Totto Land to protect the place.

Overall I highly doubt Katakuri is coming to Wano and again he's gotten enough focus already, if we ever see him again it will either be between the acts if Oda decides to show something from Totto Land or after the Wano arc is done.
 
A

ardym

#9
#9
DarkWitch said:
Leaving a Yonko's territory like Totto Land unprotected is fucking stupid, even if Kaido and Big Mom are allied with each other. You also have to realize that other strong pirates such as the Blackbeard Pirates might try to enter Totto Land that's another reason why Katakuri along with Cracker and others have to stay behind, just because Kaido and Big Mom are now allies doesn't mean Katakuri and the others will leave Totto Land especially since they don't know how long the alliance might even last. I'm pretty sure before Big Mom came to Wano she chose which subordinates would join her to Wano, and which ones would stay behind at Totto Land to protect the place.

Overall I highly doubt Katakuri is coming to Wano and again he's gotten enough focus already, if we ever see him again it will either be between the acts if Oda decides to show something from Totto Land or after the Wano arc is done.
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to be honest the onyl one who could that BB but he has other plans , and who say that the others will know that WCI is unprotected , and it usually the case since having BM flag was enough to protect Fishman island it is not like the yonko are alway there.
 
Buusatan94

Buusatan94

‎
#10
#10
DarkWitch said:
Leaving a Yonko's territory like Totto Land unprotected is fucking stupid, even if Kaido and Big Mom are allied with each other. You also have to realize that other strong pirates such as the Blackbeard Pirates might try to enter Totto Land that's another reason why Katakuri along with Cracker and others have to stay behind, just because Kaido and Big Mom are now allies doesn't mean Katakuri and the others will leave Totto Land especially since they don't know how long the alliance might even last. I'm pretty sure before Big Mom came to Wano she chose which subordinates would join her to Wano, and which ones would stay behind at Totto Land to protect the place.

Overall I highly doubt Katakuri is coming to Wano and again he's gotten enough focus already, if we ever see him again it will either be between the acts if Oda decides to show something from Totto Land or after the Wano arc is done.
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Yes if Big Mom didn't take Prometheus and most of her crew with her it was to make sure that Totto Land would be protected. I doubt that Big Mom would ever leave her kingdom ever undefended given the importance she gives to it and her dream of making it an utopia.
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Kyoshiro and some of Orochi's other followers may end up betraying Kaido and Orochi, X-Drake and Hawkins are of course sure to turn on Kaido as soon as the odds look favorable to it.
 
Tyki_Mikk

Tyki_Mikk

‎
#11
#11
ardym said:
do you think anyone will attack WCI when he knows that is now a territory of the pirate alliance between Kaido and BM?
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Yeah Blackbeard and his crew wouldn´t mind to attack WCI and overall steal the RP.
Big mom is now out of WCI, for BB the best chance to get her RP.
Big mom know himself that leaving her country means to someone protecting their, I think not only Katakuri but also Oven,Snack and Cracker stayed back to protect totland together with Katakuri.
 
Pantheos

Pantheos

Heavy Metal
‎
#12
#12
DarkWitch said:
Katakuri is not going to betray Big Mom, he's far too loyal to his family and crew. Just because he now respects Luffy doesn't mean he's going to betray Big Mom.
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Well yes, but actually no.

Katakuri is very loyal to his Family and his Crew, but that doesnt Need to include Big mom herself. She was always shown as pretty much above them, but not with them. Take a look, they discuss strategies without her, they rule all Islands without her, they plan defense and Actions without her, they even plan her as treat for them self with planings.

Additionally, it is not only respect towards luffy. Take a look at him when he asks Luffy if he will come back to defeat big mum one day. Why do you think he asks that? He wont ask because he wants a revenge, because he already saw how fast luffy grows and he didnt even asked for a revenge, then for the way bigger treat. He was straigth asking about taking down big mom. Why should he do that? Because he hopes for it.

Katakuri knows damn well that the biggest treat for the Family and the Crew is their own mother, big mum. Everyone dying in BMs Crew while the arc, was through Big Mom herself. Most of destruction -> Big mum. Katakuri knows that and i am pretty sure that is the reason why he is mostly around her, not to protect her, so to protect the Family from her. With Luffy knocking on his door and showing him his potential and his character, Katakuri saw eventually the Chance to get rid of her and saving the Family from her.

I can really imagine that Katakuri is bonding with Luffy, not going against his Family and Crew, but against Big mum. If Katakuri goes against her and Brulee following instantly, i can see Smoothie, Oven etc. pp. follow their brother, because all of them know what Big mum means for them. She is no mother (look at the relationship with Pudding), also she is not a good captain, she is a treat and the Family are Kind of slaves for her.
 
A

ardym

#13
#13
Buusatan94 said:
Yes if Big Mom didn't take Prometheus and most of her crew with her it was to make sure that Totto Land would be protected. I doubt that Big Mom would ever leave her kingdom ever undefended given the importance she gives to it and her dream of making it an utopia.
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i have the feeling that Prometheus was replaced by the homie she used to chase after the strawhats after she ate the cake , since then Prometheus was not shown anymore
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playa4321 said:
Yeah Blackbeard and his crew wouldn´t mind to attack WCI and overall steal the RP.
Big mom is now out of WCI, for BB the best chance to get her RP.
Big mom know himself that leaving her country means to someone protecting their, I think not only Katakuri but also Oven,Snack and Cracker stayed back to protect totland together with Katakuri.
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well blackbeard and his crew will not mind to attack WCI even with Katakuri and all others , only BM would be able to fend him . to be honest one year ago BB was able to defeat Marco and the other commanders of WB , Katakuri , Cracker , and some fodder will not be the problem here he can defeat them all , some earth quake will be enough to cause chaos and steal the PGs
it is not like Katakuri and Co will be enough so it is meaningless if he is there or not
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kawell that thing that was mentoned might be actually the road PG of BM , but well BM and Kaido can for sure be there in no time if they wanted it after all Kaido can fly and BM can ride :D lol
 
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Gargo

Gargo

‎
#14
#14
ardym said:
in chapter 801 we got epic Doffy speech , and he questioned "who will aid whom? and who will betray whom?" BM got already betrayed by the fire tank pirates and the sun pirates , especially two daughters and Pekoms as well , but again Katakuri and Pudding as well to some extent as well.
well and the again who betray Kaido obviously the supernova Apo and X-Drake and maybe hawkins as well if he is able to go there as well.
and Orochi will be obviously betrayed by Kyoshiro.
that all makes much sense , but could it be other betrayals that really weakened those 2 yonkos ? like commanders?
for BM my bet is on Katakuri , he really respected Luffy and in someway he begged him indirectly to defeat his mom and now he will know that BM is allied to Kaido , and that both of them are after Luffy . the man he really respects and Luffy covering his mouth with his extra hat was epic and symbolic.
would his respect to Luffy turns to loyalty ? that is after all Luffy's power , and he for sure would have pudding on his side , and maybe many of his siblings respects him too much.
just imagine this scenario BM really captured the Vinsmokes and Jinbe , and after her alliance with Kaido she called Katakuri to get a fleet and and come to this festivals as well , Katakuri could agree but instead releases the Vinsmokes , Jinbe and recruit his siblings and comes to Luffy's aid , he obviously can use the Germa ships and takes everyone with him and they can enter Wano legally.
so in a way WCI would have much relevance as it had before , till now i really had the feeling, that Oda wasted so many chapters for some irrelevant plot.
Oda made everyone likes Katakuri , the question is would be has Katakuri's story really ended? or he will ally himself with Luffy and help taking the 2 Yonkos .
till now i cannot see that any of Kaido's commanders is really that good to betray Kaido , but if there is the slightest chance it will be Queen since Luffy stated : "you are actually a good guy" that could have meaning as well , i know Luffy sometime talks nonsense but till now the people he stated to be good turn to be really good or redeemable.
well it seems obvious that Marco and maybe some of WBP will come as well.
wanna see those fights:
Luffy , Kid and Law vs Kaido
Katakuri , Marco and Queen vs BM

the WG is gonna get the biggest shock after Wano and such plot has really potential , the WG would never expect that Katakuri will betray his mom and help the one who defeated him.
I really see the WG shares Akainu's opinion to not interefere with Kaido and BM for now , since if the marines go there they will just know that WG not really that good either and that they have their deals with Kaido and Orochi. and anyway the marines cannot send a force that would be really a problem for the 2 yonkos now since they have some stuff to deal with.
Click to expand...
I'm totally with you for Katakuri joining force with Luffy / taking command of the Big Mom Pirates / betraying his mother at some points.

Katakuri is for me Whitebeard Paralel with less strenght ( Family. And I don't like Parallels )

Totland is actually a good country when Big Mom is not taxing the population.
Katakuri / Mont d'or coule become the president.
 
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