Current Events Why are people mad about Luffy vs Kaido having a different dynamic compared to other Luffy fights?

[Herrera95]

I’m an Odatard because I don’t share your opinion. I shouldn’t like my favorite character because YOU don’t want him to smile? Luffy is always smiling that’s one of the qualities I like about him. When he was about to die in Logue Town he smiled. On his wanted poster he smiled. You can dislike Oda and Luffy or even drop One Piece that has nothing to do with who I like.

Oda isn’t treating Luffys enjoyment as a powerscale D’s smile in the face of adversity. You’re just wrong.

We can powerscale based on how well Luffy is performing in combat not based on rather or not he’s smiling.

Not saying you shoudn't like Luffy. Saying you shouldn't like what Luffy is now because it doesn't fit his character. That is not Luffy at all. Luffy never smiles in the face of adversity. D's are not doing that. We have a moment or other of Luffy smiling before being "executed" by Buggy but that's all. Most of the time Luffy has a serious expression in front of an adversity.

 

[uyuu]

I see a lot of people like Morj complaining about Luffy smiling vs Kaido and how he is not pissed off like against Crocodile, Lucci, Doffy etc...

And why exacly is this bad? How are people mad that we are getting a Luffy fight, which is different? We are getting more and more hints about Kaido's past, how he is a dark/fallen version of Joyboy/Luffy. Especially smiling has been a vocal point during their fight, "the greater the risk, the more you smile".

Nobody expected Luffy vs Kaido to take such a turn in the beginning of the arc, we have also never had such a dynamic during a Luffy fight, it is both surprising and refreshing. Again, why are people mad about Oda not being formulaic but doing something different? I thought this is what we all want?

The only stuff i dislike is that everyone previously intervened on Luffy vs Kaidou fight and Kaidou just let them live since Oda cant have Scabbards or Zoro or Law die

 

[Sanji D Cook]

I'm more upset that Luffy is able to fight Kaido by himself. That deflates the hype Kaido had built up. On the rooftop, all 5 SN were struggling against Kaido and then all of a sudden, Luffy can handle Kaido by himself???

I am not a fan of that scenario.

 

[Blackknife]

I'm okay with Luffy smiling out of proudness, such as that moment in which he taunted Kaido for dodging his punch; but I think Oda went a bit too far with having them sharing a laugh and commenting on how fun that is. This could have worked with Katakuri, for example, but this is Kaido we are talking about: he has caused a lot of suffering to people Luffy cares deeply about and has shared a good part of his journey to Pirate King. Kin'emon and Momonosuke have been with him since Punk Hazard, he witnessed how loyal the dukes were to the Kozuki and how much they had to endure against the Beast Pirates, he also cried for Oden and was even angry at Kid for not understanding who he was and how important this raid is to his retainers...

Looking at the whole picture and knowing the weight of this moment, Luffy sharing laughs with Kaido as if they are buddies is odd; I mean, Kin'emon was bleeding out in his arms just a while ago. The narrative is obvious, and we'd be lying to ourselves if we denied that Luffy jokes around while fighting, but I don't feel the emotional investment this should have.

Both laughing in the heat of the moment is supposed to show how in a lot of ways they are the same, they can't help but laugh. Again, what Kaido said to Luffy in 1011 is key here. Oda is trying to communicate something through this fight.

Post automatically merged: Jan 26, 2022

I'm more upset that Luffy is able to fight Kaido by himself. That deflates the hype Kaido had built up. On the rooftop, all 5 SN were struggling against Kaido and then all of a sudden, Luffy can handle Kaido by himself???

I am not a fan of that scenario.

Luffy got a power-up in form of CoC, which is pretty standart in a shonen, i'm not a fan of it either but it is what it is. Also Kaido has been fighting the scabbards, Law, Kid, Zoro, Luffy, Yamato without rest, all while holding Onigashima, people don't recognize how beastly Kaido has been.

 

[Malio]

Why shouldn't they? Unless you want people to be sheeps and all have the same mindset

 

[DonWick]

I'm more upset that Luffy is able to fight Kaido by himself. That deflates the hype Kaido had built up. On the rooftop, all 5 SN were struggling against Kaido and then all of a sudden, Luffy can handle Kaido by himself???

I am not a fan of that scenario.

The only reason I don’t have more of an issue with that is because of the way haki works. Luffy is a CoC specialist & gets a large boost from ACoC because it’s the strength of his will being turned into power. He has the most powerful will in the series.

 

[Monster Luffy]

Why shouldn't they? Unless you want people to be sheeps and all have the same mindset

You have exactly described the Zorosheeps mindset.

 

[Blackknife]

Why shouldn't they? Unless you want people to be sheeps and all have the same mindset

I'm not mad at people for thinking this way, i'm offering them a different perspective, what you choose to do with it is up to you.

 

[Dark Admiral]

imo, the problem isn't with him just smiling it's with the fact that Kaido was sold as an absolute garbage to him and Luffy was pretty aggressive about the whole situation. Now we know through King's brief FB that Kaido may not be much of a bad guy as he was initially thought to be but for Luffy he still should be much more worse than Doflamingo and Crocodile during Dressrosa and Alabasta arc.

 

[NAMELESS]

Kaido vs Luffy is one of the best things in this arc.Luffy leveling up to Top Tier felt good for me.

 

[Charlotte Horchata]

Both laughing in the heat of the moment is supposed to show how in a lot of ways they are the same, they can't help but laugh. Again, what Kaido said to Luffy in 1011 is key here. Oda is trying to communicate something through this fight.

That's the obvious narrative I mentioned in my post, and I must say I've been prepared for Kaido becoming this kind of character and developing this relationship with Luffy since very early because it's easy to see the tropes Oda is touching here; but doesn't change the fact that this dynamic would fit way better a Katakuri-like fight than one against a man responsible for so, so, so much suffering to so many people important to Luffy. The image of both of them laughing because they're enjoying the battle clashes against the picture of Luffy holding a broken Kin'emon both physically and morally, like I don't see why Luffy would even feel like laughing.

You know, the feeling I get from Kaido is that Oda had this picture of a character in mind, hence why you can see the elemments he's working with (a depressed thought-to-be Joy Boy that realized how insignificant he was bound to be and grew bored of the world, ultimately seeking completion through death as closure for such a tedious existence —only to find himself to be "immortal"); but the execution just doesn't work for me.

 

[Luffy is the mc]

They're not mad about the dynamic, they're mad about Luffy matching Kaido, a Yonko, but they won't say it because it would look like they're salty so they attack the dynamic instead.

 

[Blackknife]

That's the obvious narrative I mentioned in my post, and I must say I've been prepared for Kaido becoming this kind of character and developing this relationship with Luffy since very early because it's easy to see the tropes Oda is touching here; but doesn't change the fact that this dynamic would fit way better a Katakuri-like fight than one against a man responsible for so, so, so much suffering to so many people important to Luffy. The image of both of them laughing because they're enjoying the battle clashes against the picture of Luffy holding a broken Kin'emon both physically and morally, like I don't see why Luffy would even feel like laughing.

You know, the feeling I get from Kaido is that Oda had this picture of a character in mind, hence why you can see the elemments he's working with (a depressed thought-to-be Joy Boy that realized how insignificant he was bound to be and grew bored of the world, ultimately seeking completion through death as closure for such a tedious existence —only to find himself to be "immortal"); but the execution just doesn't work for me.

Fair point, to me at least the Kinemon thing just doesn't hold weight anymore unfortunately, Oda wasted a good moment twice for Kinemon to die at the hands of Kaido and give a real emotional weight to this fight but at this point I think no one cares about the Samurai anymore.

 

[Tai long]

I don’t mind Luffy smiling against Kaidou or his powers ups (which were inevitable, this is a shonen). However, I think he should be more pissed off. Kaidou helped cause mass starvation and enslaved the people of Wano in labor camps and factories. Luffy has directly seen all of this, but I still feel like there is a disconnect between his fight with Kaidou and his experiences in Acts 1 and 2. I am not claiming that Luffy/Oda has forgotten these points, I just think they should be focused on a bit more.

luffy is not a hero, why should he care about people starving, there thousands of island with people suffering from poverty, do you expect luffy to help all of them.

 

[M944]

I'm okay with Luffy smiling out of proudness, such as that moment in which he taunted Kaido for dodging his punch; but I think Oda went a bit too far with having them sharing a laugh and commenting on how fun that is. This could have worked with Katakuri, for example, but this is Kaido we are talking about: he has caused a lot of suffering to people Luffy cares deeply about and has shared a good part of his journey to Pirate King. Kin'emon and Momonosuke have been with him since Punk Hazard, he witnessed how loyal the dukes were to the Kozuki and how much they had to endure against the Beast Pirates, he also cried for Oden and was even angry at Kid for not understanding who he was and how important this raid is to his retainers...

Looking at the whole picture and knowing the weight of this moment, Luffy sharing laughs with Kaido as if they are buddies is odd; I mean, Kin'emon was bleeding out in his arms just a while ago. The narrative is obvious, and we'd be lying to ourselves if we denied that Luffy jokes around while fighting, but I don't feel the emotional investment this should have.

If it don't work against Kaido it shouldn't work against Katakuri

Because Luffy :
- tried to Kill BM which is Katakuri's mother
- Tried to punch Brûlé and even kidnapped her
- Destroyed the castle which could lead to the death of several BMP
- Broke Kata's merienda

Because Kata :
- Went to the Sunny to capture them which indirectly lead to the death of Pedro
- You Can add everything BM does even if he want her to be defeated

 

[Malio]

You have exactly described the Zorosheeps mindset.

Fits the kondom and nonce stans mindset like a glove

I'm not mad at people for thinking this way, i'm offering them a different perspective, what you choose to do with it is up to you.

Their perspective makes more sense. If Luffy started that with the goofy "I'm having fun" mindset, you'd have a point but he didn't. Went from screaming "kaido" and "imma beat his ass" and all that jargon to "I'm having fun", against Kaido of all people. But it's whatever he'll win and onto the next villain

 

[wraithery]

They're not mad about the dynamic, they're mad about Luffy matching Kaido, a Yonko, but they won't say it because it would look like they're salty so they attack the dynamic instead.

Or they don't like the structure of how this fight is.

Based off your name I can tell you have an extremely heavy Luffy bias. Your statement doesn't discredit the example people have shown to back up why they feel what they feel.

Nobody up to now in any thread is mad Luffy is matching kaido. Splitting the skies is what got people hyped.

They're addressing the tone of this fight which gives a different vibe even though the build up to this fight is the same as any other time Luffy fought an antagonist that hurt people he's cared about.

If you don't have anything to add to this thread as to why you agree or disagree, and actually provide examples to back up your claim then just don't comment.

You adding that comment makes you no different than any zorotard that tries to make everything about people hating zoro whenever there's critique brought up around that character.

Do better man.

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

smiling or not smiling isnt the central issue here tho it contributes to it
look at what's being said.

I had this particular issue after this chapter and I described it as a strength measuring contest in a friendly rivalry cause it evolved to that.
his fights particular when he is fighting against someone that has hurt a lot of the people he has come to care for carries higher emotional weight which is what makes it so satisfying when the villain goes down.

different != better

when that's reduced to both alluding to having fun esp luffy because I could care less what kaido does till he is fleshed out,
then it begins to feel like beating kaido is just to tick off who luffy aims to surpass . it's fine if luffy wants to beat kaido to surpass him but the story has made the battle to mean more than just that.

have fights resembled these ? yes roger and whitebeard from the little we saw had but neither wb nor roger had reasons to bemoan the other , that's the important distinction . that's not the relationship luffy and kaido share or have.




oda did a great job of allowing the strawhats the see the desolation of wano by the hands of kaido
you know the guy responsible for attacking otama, the death of momo's dad , beating the scabbards near death and all of that was to provoke some justifiable anger and you see that very clearly here

in anycase till subordinate fights are done and dusted , pretty early to judge the fight but less of that and more of this is infinitely more preferable. sorry some fans dont want luffy having fun with the person who ripped up some of his allies , just broke zoro in front of him
and killed momo's dad.

joyboy argument is lame ; luffy didn't start being joyboy when this fight started so I cant help but laugh when people try to use that as a justification.

 

[Finalbeta]

Wnen it comes to step up for a goal of his of whatever kind Luffy is a real massive conqueror I must admit

 

[Pooth]

One piece fights do not have a real story anymore. Even queen and sanji was so unexpected and shallow. There isn't a meaningful development everthing is set up to set up the conventional cool moment. It's like oda is coding basic java code for starters as to before his coding was more complex yet more simple to understand but sparked more curiosity. One piece is made just to suck money it is what it is .