Character Discussion Why did Buggy not believe in himself?

#1
so in 1082 we learn that buggy remembers and holds dear roger's vision/will but expected shanks to follow it, as he thought shanks would succeed while he would not.

did he have any good reason to think he himself would fail? like, any tangible proof of his limited capabilities?

well...no?

because in practice, buggy has a lot going for him. for one, his luck is extraordinary. his charisma is off the charts - he arrives at marineford and whitebeard himself asks him to become his ally! he's not stupid - he can come up with clever plans and even as a child he was observant and smart enough to ponder how teach not sleeping ain't normal. he can strike up a friendship like it's nothing (see: ace). he's decisive and ambitious. he's realistic and not delusional - he understands that some things have gone his way 'accidentally' and is honest enough to say as much.

and for sure he loved roger. and the remaining roger pirates don't have a single bad word to say about buggy but... it seems they never encouraged him in any way? it seems like buggy was legit raised in an environment where it didn't even occur to him he could achieve something on his own merit. the oro jackson adults ain't looking good here.

but i think there's a possible explanation as to why they didn't want to encourage buggy's ambitions or show support for his dreams... buggy is xebec's son and the roger pirates knew this. they raised him as their own but they thought that if they fuelled his ambitions and encouraged him to believe in himself, he might turn out like his father, who was ambitious but in a bad way. so instead they went with the 'be humble and be happy for your friend shanks' success!'. and it seems he was - except that it also meant he'd end up 'delegating' his own dream (which he, of course, did have!) to shanks only to be disappointed by his friend's bum attitude. so he became unhappy and kind of lost 'his place in the world'.

it's quite sad. roger('s crew) kinda fucked up there.
 
#3
Buggy is discouraged because he doesn't have the strength build-up for him. That's why he needed manpower like Mihawk and Crocodile to achieve his goal.
read the entire post, not just the thread title. i'm talking about his childhood. he didn't believe in himself but believed in shanks - but why? of course, as a child, buggy had no manpower. but neither did shanks. so why believe in the ginger bum's future success but not your own?
 
#4
read the entire post, not just the thread title. i'm talking about his childhood. he didn't believe in himself but believed in shanks - but why? of course, as a child, buggy had no manpower. but neither did shanks. so why believe in the ginger bum's future success but not your own?
I think that Buggy thinks Shanks is the true successor of Roger. Not him.
 
#5
so in 1082 we learn that buggy remembers and holds dear roger's vision/will but expected shanks to follow it, as he thought shanks would succeed while he would not.

did he have any good reason to think he himself would fail? like, any tangible proof of his limited capabilities?

well...no?

because in practice, buggy has a lot going for him. for one, his luck is extraordinary. his charisma is off the charts - he arrives at marineford and whitebeard himself asks him to become his ally! he's not stupid - he can come up with clever plans and even as a child he was observant and smart enough to ponder how teach not sleeping ain't normal. he can strike up a friendship like it's nothing (see: ace). he's decisive and ambitious. he's realistic and not delusional - he understands that some things have gone his way 'accidentally' and is honest enough to say as much.

and for sure he loved roger. and the remaining roger pirates don't have a single bad word to say about buggy but... it seems they never encouraged him in any way? it seems like buggy was legit raised in an environment where it didn't even occur to him he could achieve something on his own merit. the oro jackson adults ain't looking good here.

but i think there's a possible explanation as to why they didn't want to encourage buggy's ambitions or show support for his dreams... buggy is xebec's son and the roger pirates knew this. they raised him as their own but they thought that if they fuelled his ambitions and encouraged him to believe in himself, he might turn out like his father, who was ambitious but in a bad way. so instead they went with the 'be humble and be happy for your friend shanks' success!'. and it seems he was - except that it also meant he'd end up 'delegating' his own dream (which he, of course, did have!) to shanks only to be disappointed by his friend's bum attitude. so he became unhappy and kind of lost 'his place in the world'.

it's quite sad. roger('s crew) kinda fucked up there.
If you want to bring up his biological lineage, then how about I remind you that Shanks was hinted to be of celestial dragon lineage TWICE according to Film Red?

So why is roger hyping him up and not buggy? If going by your logic that encouraging someone whose father was evil will turn his son evil too, then shanks would turn out as the same slave master as his parents as well, no?

:seriously:
 
#6
If you want to bring up his biological lineage, then how about I remind you that Shanks was hinted to be of celestial dragon lineage TWICE according to Film Red?

So why is roger hyping him up and not buggy? If going by your logic that encouraging someone whose father was evil will turn his son evil too, then shanks would turn out as the same slave master as his parents no?

:seriously:
yeah i'm a staunch believer when it comes to the celestial dragon shanks theory. the thing is - the celestial dragons aren't known for the 'inherited will'. it's a D thing.

it's also possible they were originally wary of feeding shankses ego but when they saw that he didn't show any signs of pride or typical CD 'i'm a god now pay tribute to me, trash!' bullshit, they gradually abandoned their fears of him growing into a 'typical bad CD'. buggy, unlike shanks, could be belligerent and temperamental even as a child so, combined with the crew's fear of 'the bad kind of will of D striking again', was deemed best to be raised 'as humble as possible' to the very end.
 
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Peppercore

(☝◞‸◟)☞ 𝚂𝚒𝚖𝚙
#9
I kinda agree. Even if he aint a d, he did notice shanks favoritism. And I'm sure he internalized that shit. which of course, made him put his dream behind him and support the person he believed was the one. it's a little sad if u think about it. No wonder he didn't want to join shanks, he gave up on his damn dream and believed in shanks only for shanks to be like nah.
 
#10
what are you smoking?

his fruit is unironically one of the best anyone could have

it literally makes him immune to all sword attacks, including shanks himself
:snoopy:
When he did eat it,though,he did not think that. He just saw it like the end of his dream to take Captain John treasure,and did not beat any big shot in Paradise. Lets face it,the guy has the charisma of a dictator but he is not powerful in battle at all.
 
#11
When he did eat it,though,he did not think that. He just saw it like the end of his dream to take Captain John treasure,and did not beat any big shot in Paradise. Lets face it,the guy has the charisma of a dictator but he is not powerful in battle at all.
thing is, he doesnt have to be the one to swim down to get that treasure
he could just entrust it to somebody else
plus he could get MORE treasures from out of reach places with this fruit, such as high cliffs, steep mountains, or tight caves

anyway, yeah, you're right he just doesn't see the potential in himself and therefore didnt bother to try becoming stronger.
Post automatically merged:

I kinda agree. Even if he aint a d, he did notice shanks favoritism. And I'm sure he internalized that shit. which of course, made him put his dream behind him and support the person he believed was the one. it's a little sad if u think about it. No wonder he didn't want to join shanks, he gave up on his damn dream and believed in shanks only for shanks to be like nah.
@Rottkins what are your thoughts on this thread btw?
:quest:
 
#12
The issues of Buggy's confidence come from Shanks and his time in Roger.

because kid shanks were always confident when buggy was scared and so on, comparing himself to Shanks he probably saw the Roger copy in the red hair.

he ends up internalizing that he would always be Shanks second man, when Roger dies, Buggy 100% believes Shanks would be the one to make it and was ready to be his co-man.

Roger may or not have unconsciously groomed Shanks into the next PK too in a certain favoritism.

It's one of those relationships that looked good from afar, but being friends with Shanks messed buggy confidence.

When Shanks refused One Piece, it destroyed Buggy idealized version of him, which is what pissed him off so much.

The bombastic clown has achieved a lot, but he never believe that he is the real deal "Just luck after all"
 
#14
Ever been in a situation where you see your peers succeeding and you don't, even just by a slim margin ? It just happened to me recently, where I failed an exam by 0.19 points when some peers passed.

It can be frustrating and discouraging as an adult. Now, imagine as a kid, in an environement as dangerous as the Pirates of One Piece before the Golden Age. Buggy and Shanks were close in strength yeah, but that little difference in strength in favor of Shanks, added to the fact that Buggy clearly knew he lacked the easy charisma of his bestfriend/rival meant that he just couldn't build up the confidence in himself to surpass those worries.

Plus, he ended feeling like Usopp did at some point, that Shanks would become the Pirate King anyway and he'd just have to follow him to see it happen and revive Roger's will. But when Shanks didn't want to go all in, he broke with him, as seen in this chapter. It wasn't to claim the title for himself sadly, and he remained in east Blue for decades, until Luffy, Roger's true heir, unknowingly sent him back to the Grand Line.

And see how he has fared ! He's become one of the Four Emperor ! And he is LOVED by his men. Sure, he's a fraud, he uses them. But I think they all feel the same as he, that they are also ran, not good enough, etc. And he can bring the best out of them. That'll drive him far, and I wouldn't be surprised he shone one last time, as the final burden for BB to defeat until he can claim Laughtale, the title of Pirate King only to be defeated in turn by Luffy, the true Joyboy.
 
#15
thing is, he doesnt have to be the one to swim down to get that treasure
he could just entrust it to somebody else
it's exactly what he did with roger's will - entrusted it to somebody else (shanks). and how did that work out? it didn't. it was a bad idea because neither roger nor the ginger had explained to him that roger's vision requires sitting on your ass and waiting for the arrival of joyboy (decades into the future). he felt betrayed when the person he had trusted to follow roger's dream seemingly abandoned it.

the lesson? do NOT live vicariously through others and do NOT delegate your dreams. other people can disappoint you without meaning to and even if they don't you won't feel the satisfaction of your personal accomplishments.
 
#16
He's become one of the Four Emperor ! And he is LOVED by his men. Sure, he's a fraud, he uses them. But I think they all feel the same as he, that they are also ran, not good enough, etc. And he can bring the best out of them. That'll drive him far, and I wouldn't be surprised he shone one last time, as the final burden for BB to defeat until he can claim Laughtale, the title of Pirate King only to be defeated in turn by Luffy, the true Joyboy.
It would be glorious if Buggys men stood up for him later on in the series as he is getting beaten up by say Ryukogyu.

Fodder: "Stop! We know he is a fraud. But he is our fraud. None of us could make it to the One Piece.. we are also rans. No one ever believed in us. But Captain Buggy made us all dream. If even *he* could become a yonko then we could all achieve our dreams".

Buggy: They believe in me..! Hey!! What do you mean "even he"?!?!

Mihawk: I'll be damned. He really does have something. Step aside, I'll take care of this guy.

Buggy: Hawk Eyes!

Mihawk: Shut up. He does have an interesting sword on him after all.
 
#17
so in 1082 we learn that buggy remembers and holds dear roger's vision/will but expected shanks to follow it, as he thought shanks would succeed while he would not.

did he have any good reason to think he himself would fail? like, any tangible proof of his limited capabilities?

well...no?

because in practice, buggy has a lot going for him. for one, his luck is extraordinary. his charisma is off the charts - he arrives at marineford and whitebeard himself asks him to become his ally! he's not stupid - he can come up with clever plans and even as a child he was observant and smart enough to ponder how teach not sleeping ain't normal. he can strike up a friendship like it's nothing (see: ace). he's decisive and ambitious. he's realistic and not delusional - he understands that some things have gone his way 'accidentally' and is honest enough to say as much.

and for sure he loved roger. and the remaining roger pirates don't have a single bad word to say about buggy but... it seems they never encouraged him in any way? it seems like buggy was legit raised in an environment where it didn't even occur to him he could achieve something on his own merit. the oro jackson adults ain't looking good here.

but i think there's a possible explanation as to why they didn't want to encourage buggy's ambitions or show support for his dreams... buggy is xebec's son and the roger pirates knew this. they raised him as their own but they thought that if they fuelled his ambitions and encouraged him to believe in himself, he might turn out like his father, who was ambitious but in a bad way. so instead they went with the 'be humble and be happy for your friend shanks' success!'. and it seems he was - except that it also meant he'd end up 'delegating' his own dream (which he, of course, did have!) to shanks only to be disappointed by his friend's bum attitude. so he became unhappy and kind of lost 'his place in the world'.

it's quite sad. roger('s crew) kinda fucked up there.


He literally explains why. Shanks showed so much more potential that he knew he couldn't compete with him so he gave up.

Instead he chose to be a big fish in a small pot, went to East Blue to bully weaklings. Its kind of similar to what Croco and Mihawk did, Croco was smashed by WB, he learned his limitations, and went to first part of Grand Line to build his power and if he could find Pluton, he could do more with that. Mihawk, either was smashed or learned with other ways that even if he tried he couldn't compete with Yonko as well, he too chose to be a smaller pirate in the first half of Grand Line with his Shichibukai title, bullying weaklings like Don Krieg in East Blue, until they took his Shichibukai title from him, he was forced to fight back by Marines and was forced to join Crocodile, fate brought them together in a weird way.
 

Roronoa-sama

Magic Sword, Magic Swordsman, and Can Cut Anything
#18


He literally explains why. Shanks showed so much more potential that he knew he couldn't compete with him so he gave up.

Instead he chose to be a big fish in a small pot, went to East Blue to bully weaklings. Its kind of similar to what Croco and Mihawk did, Croco was smashed by WB, he learned his limitations, and went to first part of Grand Line to build his power and if he could find Pluton, he could do more with that. Mihawk, either was smashed or learned with other ways that even if he tried he couldn't compete with Yonko as well, he too chose to be a smaller pirate in the first half of Grand Line with his Shichibukai title, bullying weaklings like Don Krieg in East Blue, until they took his Shichibukai title from him, he was forced to fight back by Marines and was forced to join Crocodile, fate brought them together in a weird way.
your post was correct until you talked about mihawk
 
#19
He literally explains why. Shanks showed so much more potential that he knew he couldn't compete with him so he gave up.
it's what we are told but never shown.

i have seen NO potential (especially of the intellectual variety) from kid!shanks so i consider this explanation inadequate. buggy overestimated his little rat friend and failed to see his own strengths so he's not an adequate judge of the situation either


also, someone else showing potential in whatever field of expertize is not a reason for a person to give up on their personal dreams, it doesn't make any sense. shanks's mythical 'potenatial' shouldn't affect buggy's decisions regarding his own life path
 
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