Powers & Abilities Why do people ignore power counters/matchups?

[sanjikun]

All this wanking of Cracker is based on whether his DF, that spawns endless mass in the form of armored warriors separate from himself, is directly comparable to anyone else's which is generally more directly linked to an individual body.
And in that one simply has to recognize that there is a certain difference there to be able to multiply oneself - limitlessly - at the same base level (without compromise of an individual warrior's agility that isn't more than made up for by being able to completely swamp or surround an enemy in numbers), and without signficant cost to stamina or endurance, compared to having all strength and ability centred in a body, and needing to use strength and ability at one's personal cost of stamina and endurance.
Even if one finds mixed cases, Cracker remains an extreme case of that first sort.

In that sense, it is nothing else than a weaselly trick of vague semantics to compare Cracker's "defense" 1-on-1 to someone's strength (when there is a 14-on-1 or something like that), let alone if it either needs a specific counter or close to top-tier strength (above YC) to break through everything at once, and if that "defense" has nothing to do with Cracker himself as an individual, and is basically a mountain of armored mass completely separate from himself.

What's more Cracker was clearly overextending himself, and spamming warriors non-stop (still at relatively low cost to himself, since that is how DF's work compared to other activities) is not a normal way for him to use his "defense" (which would actually be kind of a stupid style).

Their logic is like "Well Jack has more endurance. He will make up for Cracker's soldiers".

No...no he won't. Luffy would body all the Zooans in Boundman. It doesn't mean Cracker > King or Queen or > Jack.

Same thing with Law. Law would do MUCH better than Boundman vs. Cracker. It doesn't mean Law > Boundman.

 

[Jo_Ndule]

No, no he didn't. That's the point. He was hiding and occasionally would peak his head, and go back to hiding again. Your arguments go like

"Capone tanked a Yonko's attacks. Boundman Luffy didn't. Capone > Boundman Luffy".

That's not how powerscaling works. I don't scale Luffy based on Cracker did this, Katakuri did that. I scale him on Katakuri's words, and the portrayal he got from being the only one to ever break out of Doffy's strings. A feat no Yonko Commander can accomplish with brute power. Both put him at "YC1" or at least >= YC2s.



Ok...then what's the issue? No need to post if you don't care about power scaling.

Thank you for actually going against manga fact

Comparing capone tanking to Cracker vs g4 Luffy being intense, we see Haki sparks
We see Homies reactions
Doffy vs g4 had Oda tells us Doffy was being ragdolled by Balloon guy (G4 luffy)

As far as I remember your argument if flawed since we saw cracker attacking g4, we saw cracker vs luffy was intense...the rest was offpaneled
Then we found out Luffy didnt find a way to breakthrough

Remain salty.
Boundman pre adcoa cant beat Cracker. They fought intensively.

And No one has broke out of Katakuri stickiness
Kata sticky property>doffy strings
Nice try. Your g4 boundman cant even pull it arm out of Kata body
What's the excuse?

You overrate Doffy strings, the only thing G4 has failed break out is Katakuri stickiness.

You think a battle is AP AP...skills haki makes up for overall strength

What it took to beat Cracker :
Rain , food, full version of Tankman and cracker own clones. 11 hrs of Luffy having advantage and still doing nothing

"Because no one has broken"
Lemme also say Kata is Extra top tier coz he trapped base Luffy, Boundman & Snakeman ... top tier Luffy got trapped and cant break out

Post automatically merged: May 11, 2020

Their logic is like "Well Jack has more endurance. He will make up for Cracker's soldiers".

No...no he won't. Luffy would body all the Zooans in Boundman. It doesn't mean Cracker > King or Queen or > Jack.

Same thing with Law. Law would do MUCH better than Boundman vs. Cracker. It doesn't mean Law > Boundman.

sure

Doffy still lost to boundman like fodder
Cracker still did better intensively...go rewrite the Manga.

 

[beardweird]

Their logic is like "Well Jack has more endurance. He will make up for Cracker's soldiers".

No...no he won't. Luffy would body all the Zooans in Boundman. It doesn't mean Cracker > King or Queen or > Jack.

Same thing with Law. Law would do MUCH better than Boundman vs. Cracker. It doesn't mean Law > Boundman.

Imagining anyone to withstand 16 hour (or whatever) barrage of G4... Nuts, that sounds like Kaido level, way beyond YC. One has to ignore any logic and facts to say "Cracker has a DF like any other DF", ignore what it does.


And by the way, Akainu says there are relationships of superiority, it goes without saying (as it does anyway), that there are match-up differences, or possible DFs with particular advantages.

Edit: And if one wanted to insist on Haki makes up for DF, it would push the difference or advantage forward even stronger.

Post automatically merged: May 12, 2020

Then we found out Luffy didnt find a way to breakthrough

He did, but Cracker spammed more, which requires zero (or in any case much less) effort. Can you see the difference? That difference in effort is a match-up advantage compared to anyone more skilled and stronger (whom he will spam full endlessly), at least in a similar tier.

Then there is another reason, not to be underestimated, why the fight went the way it did: Oda wanted to draw it this way or have it go this way, as it's far more interesting than if the fruit (and a YC encounter) is wasted. The DF requires this logic in storytelling, unless it has been used already or it's a throway character.

 

[Jo_Ndule]

Imagining anyone to withstand 16 hour (or whatever) barrage of G4... Nuts, that sounds like Kaido level, way beyond YC. One has to ignore any logic and facts to say "Cracker has a DF like any other DF", ignore what it does.


And by the way, Akainu says there are relationships of superiority, it goes without saying (as it does anyway), that there are match-up differences, or possible DFs with particular advantages.

Edit: And if one wanted to insist on Haki makes up for DF, it would push the difference or advantage forward even stronger.

Post automatically merged: May 12, 2020

He did, but Cracker spammed more, which requires zero (or in any case much less) effort. Can you see the difference? That difference in effort is a match-up advantage compared to anyone more skilled and stronger (whom he will spam full endlessly), at least in a similar tier.

Then there is another reason, not to be underestimated, why the fight went the way it did: Oda wanted to draw it this way or have it go this way, as it's far more interesting than if the fruit (and a YC encounter) is wasted. The DF requires this logic in storytelling, unless it has been used already or it's a throway character.

He didnt breakthrough.
Cracker spamming his own powers isnt an excuse
Luffy was too weak haki and skills wise to beat Cracker.

If you cant overcome someone Skills and win then you are weaker or unskilled to do so.
If is simply

If you need PU or help To neutralise someone skills then you were never superior

He needed hours + Rain + Food + Full version of Tankman + Cracker own biscuits... that's not how someone superior overall, look alike.

Do you think Kaido needs Rain or food to beat Cracker? Or BaseBM? Or Base Kata? Nope because they have better skill or power than Luffy (pre FS adcoa)

"But Luffy can only destroyed clones"
Reminder he only sent one clone back few metres coz the clone is durable and strong. And broke the clone.
Then his Kong Organ failed to destroy clones! It was only breaking shields!
Luffy wasn't destroying clones when Cracker made a lot of them, luffy was breaking only shields.

What was Luffy issue? Getting pass Hard biscuits
Even how Luffy won, Cracker didn't even coat his sword, He ran into Tankman.. cracker lost patience
It wasnt because Luffy went after cracker.

Fs luffy will deal with Cracker better, coz he now has better CoO and thus gives him advantage to land hits precisely before cracker does.

 

[sanjikun]

What was Luffy issue? Getting pass Hard biscuits

Luffy's issue was Cracker could make infinite soldiers. They mentioned the word "infinite" a number of times. Not breaking them. But after breaking them, he made new ones.

Trying to beat Cracker with raw strength when you're 5"7 like Luffy is a waste of time. The way to beat him is to get to his real body. Luffy didn't have the tools to do without using KKG.

Versatility is not the exact same thing as strength though. In fact, even Perospero would do much better than Boundman against Cracker.